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Toughguy77
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: South Cackalack
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| iknowcool wrote: | Wow... I honestly don't know what to say.
Is there any quarterback as not wanted by his own fanbase as Cam Newton is? Well, any quarterback that is actually good (to excluding the Sanchez's of the world)? Maybe Romo. But man, trading Newton AND picks for Johnny Manziel? Probably the most laughable "idea" I've read with all due respect. |
+2
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james.mcmurry13
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 30909
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Manziel won't even be the top pick when he comes out. He's only listed at 6'1 200, and his arm strength isn't ideal.
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25261
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| haggis wrote: | Well the real question is if the panthers only win 6 games next year can you reasonably say a QB with a winning game record of 18-36 worth $25m a year?
I am not sure I can justify paying 100-125m for 6 win seasons. I know it isn't entirely his fault but he has single handedly lost games.
Sidenote...would you rather trade Cam for a few draft picks and get Johnny Manziel in 2 years...timing is pretty good |
He hasnt single handedly lost the team any games. That simply isnt true. Last season he was the primary reason we were in any game to begin with. This season every mistake he has made has been compounded by some bone headed gaff by someone else down the stretch.
Judge his play. Not the record.
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| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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haggis
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 1452
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | haggis wrote: | Well the real question is if the panthers only win 6 games next year can you reasonably say a QB with a winning game record of 18-36 worth $25m a year?
I am not sure I can justify paying 100-125m for 6 win seasons. I know it isn't entirely his fault but he has single handedly lost games.
Sidenote...would you rather trade Cam for a few draft picks and get Johnny Manziel in 2 years...timing is pretty good |
He hasnt single handedly lost the team any games. That simply isnt true. Last season he was the primary reason we were in any game to begin with. This season every mistake he has made has been compounded by some bone headed gaff by someone else down the stretch.
Judge his play. Not the record. |
He has...if he doesn't fumble vs Atlanta...game over
If he doesn't throw the pick 6 vs Chicago...game over
I am sure there are more |
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iknowcool
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 11408
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| haggis wrote: | He has...if he doesn't fumble vs Atlanta...game over
If he doesn't throw the pick 6 vs Chicago...game over
I am sure there are more |
And if the defense was half-competent on the final drive... game over.
And you do realize that pick 6 was partially due to Smith falling on his break, right?
So again, Newton has not single-handedly lost us any games. He's made mistakes that contributed to a loss, sure, but it isn't his fault he has coaches or a team that can overcome one minor fumble like Luck does when he throws 3 interceptions and still somehow wins. Our losses this season have been a team effort, as in the team not doing what it needs to do to close out games. Whether that be in the Atlanta game when Cam fumbled and then our defense choked like I've never seen before or in the Tampa game when the offense couldn't close out the game (though this was more due to pathetic conservative playcalling) and the defense never got us the ball back.
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Last edited by iknowcool on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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haggis
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 1452
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Moody wrote: | | haggis wrote: | Well the real question is if the panthers only win 6 games next year can you reasonably say a QB with a winning game record of 18-36 worth $25m a year?
I am not sure I can justify paying 100-125m for 6 win seasons. I know it isn't entirely his fault but he has single handedly lost games.
Sidenote...would you rather trade Cam for a few draft picks and get Johnny Manziel in 2 years...timing is pretty good |
...stop trying so hard. It's pathetic. |
Who says Cam will want to stay here?
All money being equal I would say he would rather play in NY, Dallas than Carolina. I am sure he and his agent know these things.
I am just asking if you could get two more 1st and a 2nd plus Johnny Manziel....hmmm I think That is a nice alternative (this doesn't even count their primary picks) |
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panattack86
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 328
Location: Rockford,IL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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there is no way anyone in there right mind would want to go play for dallas in jerryworld. And the giants wont be looking for a qb and the jets are like the clippers of NY. He stays hes building a franchise and his legacy here in carolina not to mention hes being mentored by Michael Jordan who lives in charolette.
There is no way Carolina lets him walk. We would overpay before that would happen. If in the next two years we add a LT(move gross to his natural position of RT), a true #1 WR, 1 DT, SS, and CB the panthers will be in the SB. Remember the new CBA with cams age and coming out of his rookie deal he will be a RFA after we Franchise tag him. So the above mentioned moves have 4 years to happen.
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OneBadCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| iknowcool wrote: | | haggis wrote: | He has...if he doesn't fumble vs Atlanta...game over
If he doesn't throw the pick 6 vs Chicago...game over
I am sure there are more |
And if the defense was half-competent on the final drive... game over.
And you do realize that pick 6 was partially due to Smith falling on his break, right?
So again, Newton has not single-handedly lost us any games. He's made mistakes that contributed to a loss, sure, but it isn't his fault he has coaches or a team that can overcome one minor fumble like Luck does when he throws 3 interceptions and still somehow wins. Our losses this season have been a team effort, as in the team not doing what it needs to do to close out games. Whether that be in the Atlanta game when Cam fumbled and then our defense choked like I've never seen before or in the Tampa game when the offense couldn't close out the game (though this was more due to pathetic conservative playcalling) and the defense never got us the ball back. |
Yeah but he has...if he doesn't fumble vs Atlanta...game over
If he doesn't throw the pick 6 vs Chicago...game over
Ahah these are how the discussions typically go in the NFL general thread. |
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panattack86
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 328
Location: Rockford,IL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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so the Atlanta and Chicago games are reasons to trade away the franchise QB?
If thats the case then we should have traded away the entire defense with the amount of games they have lost that cam gave them the lead late in the 4th quarter.
Right?
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Impulser12000
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 2010
Location: SO CAL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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i would still take newton over every qb not named peyton, brady, brees, rodgers or luck. I would even take him over RGIII bc he's already been injured twice and do you want DA leading this off? brady and peyton and brees are getting up there in the years so overall the only qb i'd rather have is rodgers. but that's just my opinion. our losses are because of collective suck. not one person's fault. i sincerely hope (if he continues his hard work) that cam stays here for years to come
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CarolinaKitten on the sig
CAROLINA DID NOT DRAFT ARMANTI EDWARDS TO PLAY QB...or at all. Man he sucks |
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james.mcmurry13
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 30909
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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If you take anything away from the Atlanta games this year, its that he is absolutely a keeper at QB. The team tied for the best record in the NFL, with one loss outside of us, and Cam played very well both games, and we're one swatted pass attempt away from sweeping them.
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hudson3010
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 621
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Impulser12000 wrote: | | i would still take newton over every qb not named peyton, brady, brees, rodgers or luck. I would even take him over RGIII bc he's already been injured twice and do you want DA leading this off? brady and peyton and brees are getting up there in the years so overall the only qb i'd rather have is rodgers. but that's just my opinion. our losses are because of collective suck. not one person's fault. i sincerely hope (if he continues his hard work) that cam stays here for years to come |
Considering age too, right now I wouldnt trade cam for any qb in this league
At qb we are set for the next 15 years
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25261
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| haggis wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | haggis wrote: | Well the real question is if the panthers only win 6 games next year can you reasonably say a QB with a winning game record of 18-36 worth $25m a year?
I am not sure I can justify paying 100-125m for 6 win seasons. I know it isn't entirely his fault but he has single handedly lost games.
Sidenote...would you rather trade Cam for a few draft picks and get Johnny Manziel in 2 years...timing is pretty good |
He hasnt single handedly lost the team any games. That simply isnt true. Last season he was the primary reason we were in any game to begin with. This season every mistake he has made has been compounded by some bone headed gaff by someone else down the stretch.
Judge his play. Not the record. |
He has...if he doesn't fumble vs Atlanta...game over
If he doesn't throw the pick 6 vs Chicago...game over
I am sure there are more |
Atlanta? You dont remember any other mistakes by anyone else that game? None? Nothing about a blown coverage and a 50 yard pass from the end zone? No? Just Cam and the fumble, right? Single handedly losing the game, right?
And, as mentioned, Steve Smith fell coming out of his break.
I will explain how timing routes work in the NFL. A timing route is when the QB throws the ball to where the WR is supposed to be. Not where he is. Thats what they spend all that time in practice for. NFL offenses rely heavily on them because of the reaction time of pro defenders. So if a play calls for a timing route and the QB throws the ball and the WR falls before he gets to where the ball is going (fails to be where he is supposed to be) bad things happen. But that isnt the QBs fault. the QB did exactly what he was supposed to do.
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| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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Cypher
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1854
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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While he definitely wasn't the sole reason for the Atlanta and Chicago losses, you can pin the loss to Seattle directly on Newton and Smith.
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Cypher wrote: | | Holy crap, Rivers has SIX kids!? |
Adopted 5 of Cromartie's to help a homie out. |
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james.mcmurry13
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 30909
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Cypher wrote: | | While he definitely wasn't the sole reason for the Atlanta and Chicago losses, you can pin the loss to Seattle directly on Newton and Smith. |
I can kind of get on board with that. If you do have a terrible game though, having it against (arguably) the best D in the NFL isn't so bad.
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