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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11022
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:

Overrated how? You don't think Allen & Tarver could utilize him like Allen did with Von miller last year?


I think Jones in a one-trick pony. He's an OLB rusher. I don't feel he can play the run well and I'd be leery of his coverage skills. I've not seen enough of him to judge that but he just doesn't seem like that type to me.

EDIT: I want to make sure that I am not saying he'll suck. I'm just saying what I feel he's best suited for. I think he'll have a nice career but not top 3 overall pick worthy.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11022
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
RunDmc23 wrote:
I would be ecstatic if we got Star our first draft pick that isn't going to be a bust. Awesome way to start the Mckenzie Era. If it was me as much as i love Mcfadden we need to trade him never thought i would say this but we do if we could get a 2nd and a 3rd or 2nds for him that would we awesome i would then gamble the 2nd on Tyrann Mathieu and the 3rd we would get on Eddie Lacy from bama those three players would be a nice start to the Raider Nation...


Mathieu is going to drop ALOT lower than the 2nd imo.


Agreed. He's basically a midget who was out of football for a year and has off-field issues.

No thanks. 7th round grade IMO.
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Dat Raider


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 4446
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
RunDmc23 wrote:
I would be ecstatic if we got Star our first draft pick that isn't going to be a bust. Awesome way to start the Mckenzie Era. If it was me as much as i love Mcfadden we need to trade him never thought i would say this but we do if we could get a 2nd and a 3rd or 2nds for him that would we awesome i would then gamble the 2nd on Tyrann Mathieu and the 3rd we would get on Eddie Lacy from bama those three players would be a nice start to the Raider Nation...


Mathieu is going to drop ALOT lower than the 2nd imo.


Agreed. He's basically a midget who was out of football for a year and has off-field issues.

No thanks. 7th round grade IMO.


Are you denying the fact that he is an outstanding playmaker based on his physical attributes? The physical attributes he's had while make all of those plays? Hmmm... Really?
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11022
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dat Raider wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
RunDmc23 wrote:
I would be ecstatic if we got Star our first draft pick that isn't going to be a bust. Awesome way to start the Mckenzie Era. If it was me as much as i love Mcfadden we need to trade him never thought i would say this but we do if we could get a 2nd and a 3rd or 2nds for him that would we awesome i would then gamble the 2nd on Tyrann Mathieu and the 3rd we would get on Eddie Lacy from bama those three players would be a nice start to the Raider Nation...


Mathieu is going to drop ALOT lower than the 2nd imo.


Agreed. He's basically a midget who was out of football for a year and has off-field issues.

No thanks. 7th round grade IMO.


Are you denying the fact that he is an outstanding playmaker based on his physical attributes? The physical attributes he's had while make all of those plays? Hmmm... Really?


I'm saying he was good in college. There are plenty of people who are good in college and not in the NFL due to constraints outside of their control. Combine his physical limitations to his off-field crap and I don't want a part of him. Hitting the L is the same at all ages and levels though. I'm sure he's aware of that.

No thanks.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Tyrann Mathieu can keep his act together he's going to be an excellent nickel back in the NFL.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5706
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
If Tyrann Mathieu can keep his act together he's going to be an excellent nickel back in the NFL.


He'll be lucky to elevate to the level of a Pacman Jones or Joselio Hanson. So, that said, does anyone still want throw away another early pick on a reach and a project? Does anyone feel like keeping in mind how many high draft picks this team has absolutely blown on guys just like this, with "potential" and problems?

Holy cow, do you want to watch a better team, ever?
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RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
RunDmc23 wrote:
I would be ecstatic if we got Star our first draft pick that isn't going to be a bust. Awesome way to start the Mckenzie Era. If it was me as much as i love Mcfadden we need to trade him never thought i would say this but we do if we could get a 2nd and a 3rd or 2nds for him that would we awesome i would then gamble the 2nd on Tyrann Mathieu and the 3rd we would get on Eddie Lacy from bama those three players would be a nice start to the Raider Nation...


Mathieu is going to drop ALOT lower than the 2nd imo.


Agreed. He's basically a midget who was out of football for a year and has off-field issues.

No thanks. 7th round grade IMO.


No Thanks haha watch this dude turn into a stud I would switch and make him a ball hawking safety if need be ala bob sanders. There is no way he goes in the 7th round. look who nobody wanted to draft last year janoris jenkins now look at him for the rams making plays like crazy. Somebody is going to jump up and take a chance on this kid he has first round talent. Size dont matter its about heart and this kids got it just sayin
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11022
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RunDmc23 wrote:
Size dont matter its about heart and this kids got it just sayin


LOL this is great. News flash guys, if you have heart, you're good!! Heart of lion, eye of the tiger... .GAME ON!
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LivingLegendWFC


Joined: 28 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:

Overrated how? You don't think Allen & Tarver could utilize him like Allen did with Von miller last year?


I think Jones in a one-trick pony. He's an OLB rusher. I don't feel he can play the run well and I'd be leery of his coverage skills. I've not seen enough of him to judge that but he just doesn't seem like that type to me.

EDIT: I want to make sure that I am not saying he'll suck. I'm just saying what I feel he's best suited for. I think he'll have a nice career but not top 3 overall pick worthy.


The Alabama game isn't really indicative of his ability to play the run. He's actually very good in that department. He does struggle a times getting off bigger OTs when they run right at him, but I urge out to find me a LB that doesn't. Jones consistently makes plays in the run ga,me. He saved TDs in the Florida and Mizzo game chasing plays down from the backside. Run defense may be his weakest area but he's not a liability. And if he becomes an elite pass rusher, like I believe he will, you can deal with him being less than elite in run defense.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
If Tyrann Mathieu can keep his act together he's going to be an excellent nickel back in the NFL.


I'm not saying there aren't any, but I'm hard pressed to think of a guy off the top of my head who was exclusively a slot CB in college and was able to make the transition to the NFL. Maybe you could help me out?

Iirc, aren't most NFL slot CBs formerly collegiate boundary CBs who are forced in the slot due to size limitations? And most guys who are limited to being slot CBs in college usually end up in the CFL? Idk, too lazy to research atm.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
If Tyrann Mathieu can keep his act together he's going to be an excellent nickel back in the NFL.


I'm not saying there aren't any, but I'm hard pressed to think of a guy off the top of my head who was exclusively a slot CB in college and was able to make the transition to the NFL. Maybe you could help me out?

Iirc, aren't most NFL slot CBs formerly collegiate boundary CBs who are forced in the slot due to size limitations? And most guys who are limited to being slot CBs in college usually end up in the CFL? Idk, too lazy to research atm.


better question. Has any kid with a smoking problem, got more money and more access to it and then decided to give it up?
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RunDmc23 wrote:

No Thanks haha watch this dude turn into a stud I would switch and make him a ball hawking safety if need be ala bob sanders. There is no way he goes in the 7th round. look who nobody wanted to draft last year janoris jenkins now look at him for the rams making plays like crazy. Somebody is going to jump up and take a chance on this kid he has first round talent. Size dont matter its about heart and this kids got it just sayin


I find that you love to prognostications based solely on conjecture and I find your "haha" retorts disrespectful of people who actually watch games. There is evidence that LSU didn't even consider mathieu one of it's top 2 CBs on it's roster. AGAIN, please elaborate on how Mathieu compares to Sanders in the form of skill set?

In addition, Janoris was considered THE consummate cover CB in the 2012 draft not the one-dimensional RS mathieu is, although Mathieu's ball skills are apparent. There is the component of character that effects draft stock, jenkins fell because of concerns about making a long-term financial commitment to a person of questionable character NOT playing ability. Words cannot express how screwed the Raiders would be if Janoris were drafted early and went sideways, a la Kat Williams.

When you consider McClain-gate it should be obvious that character is a concern because it will take high-character guys to buy into the long-term vision of the organization and not the instant gratification of playing on a star-studded defense. If you look at how Janoris' contract is structured the Rams have given themselves all the leverage to keep Jenkin's focused. 1st round draft picks wield a lot of influence. Leverage is power and in the Raiders case McClain has enough leverage to make the Raiders uncomfortable.
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LivingLegendWFC


Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 11042
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
If Tyrann Mathieu can keep his act together he's going to be an excellent nickel back in the NFL.


I'm not saying there aren't any, but I'm hard pressed to think of a guy off the top of my head who was exclusively a slot CB in college and was able to make the transition to the NFL. Maybe you could help me out?

Iirc, aren't most NFL slot CBs formerly collegiate boundary CBs who are forced in the slot due to size limitations? And most guys who are limited to being slot CBs in college usually end up in the CFL? Idk, too lazy to research atm.


better question. Has any kid with a smoking problem, got more money and more access to it and then decided to give it up?


Yes, you just don't hear as much about people that turn their act around as you do the guys that continue to screw up. Especially with something like weed that isn't an easy spin into a story of someone turning their life around and kicking some horrible addiction. There are guys each year that fail the combine drug test for pot and it doesn't end up being a problem. I believe Percy Harvin failed his drug test, as well as Justin Houston, etc. And I fully admit those guys problems typically aren't as bad Tyran's appear to be.
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RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
RunDmc23 wrote:

No Thanks haha watch this dude turn into a stud I would switch and make him a ball hawking safety if need be ala bob sanders. There is no way he goes in the 7th round. look who nobody wanted to draft last year janoris jenkins now look at him for the rams making plays like crazy. Somebody is going to jump up and take a chance on this kid he has first round talent. Size dont matter its about heart and this kids got it just sayin


I find that you love to prognostications based solely on conjecture and I find your "haha" retorts disrespectful of people who actually watch games. There is evidence that LSU didn't even consider mathieu one of it's top 2 CBs on it's roster. AGAIN, please elaborate on how Mathieu compares to Sanders in the form of skill set?

In addition, Janoris was considered THE consummate cover CB in the 2012

draft not the one-dimensional RS mathieu is, although Mathieu's ball skills are apparent. There is the component of character that effects draft stock, jenkins fell because of concerns about making a long-term financial commitment to a person of questionable character NOT playing ability. Words cannot express how screwed the Raiders would be if Janoris were drafted early and went sideways, a la Kat Williams.

When you consider McClain-gate it should be obvious that character is a concern because it will take high-character guys to buy into the long-term vision of the organization and not the instant gratification of playing on a star-studded defense. If you look at how Janoris' contract is structured the Rams have given themselves all the leverage to keep Jenkin's focused. 1st round draft picks wield a lot of influence. Leverage is power and in the Raiders case McClain has enough leverage to make the Raiders uncomfortable.
. It does not matter j. Jenkins was a bigger issue coming out of college and the rams took a risk u know why they have a good coach thats what we need one that players respect and actually want to come here and play for. Somebody is going to take a chance on matheiu alot earlier than the 4th mark my words and he is going to make that defense that much better so wether you say its a good move or not i say me take a chance your assumption dont make me change my mind one bit nice try thow
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iirc, neither Harvin or Houston were habitual offenders. Drug testing for anything other than PEDs is still pretty lax. You gotta be Ricky Williams bad to get caught.
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