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The Price of Lee
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textaz03


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Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 11045
Location: Land of the Jersey Devil!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
I wouldn't give him a shiney new nickel until he proves he can play a full season. Not for nothing, he's a great player, when he's healthy. Trouble is, he CANT STAY HEALTHY!
get out of town! Your freaking crazy!!!!

PAY THE MAN!!!!!!



You think so? You have a very short memory my friend. Or perhaps you are just a young'in. Either way, I will jog your memory.

There was time when we did exactly what you advocate. It was during the waining years of our dynasty. Jerry threw big bucks at guys like Deion Sanders, Troy Aikman, Charles Haley, Tony Tolbert, and a host of other big name players. Problem was, they began to break down and miss significant playing time. (for the record significant playing time is described as follows: When a player misses anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks or above)

What that eventually led to was salary cap prison. We had so much money tied up in players that could not get on the field, that we could not afford to bring in any healthy available players. Basically we were paying for the name and the potential. Unfortunatley, that dosen't get it done on the field.

Now, is Lee a solid LB? Yes!
Can he eventually be mentioned with the greats? Yes!
Can he be the vocal and emotional leader of a fiery defense that is dominant for years to come? Yes!
BIGGEST QUESTION OF ALL: Can he stay healthy? Ummmmmmmmm????

See what I'm getting at? This team, of all teams, can ill afford to continue to pay big money to players that cannot deliver for 1 reason or another be it they are getting old, they are over hyped, they are inthe wrong system, or in Lee's case (and a host of other Cowboys players) cannot stay healthy.

So go ahead, throw the checkbook at him, sign your life away, but when he is spending another year on IR and we have no money to bring in any one else, you can all talk about what a great player he COULD BE IF.....
ha! A young-in you say! Ha! Obviously you don't know much about me.

I understand your reason for caution, but I don't see it being much of a problem with Lee. Sure he has had hi injury problems, but they have all cone to differerent parts of the body. 1st season missed 2 games while still recovering from an ACL in college, 2nd season missed 1 game due to a hand injury (then went all beast mode with a club), 3rd season, a freaking broken toe, really???

There are certain types of guys you can't afford to let walk away, and Lee is one of them. You just don't let a top 3 player at his position walk, period! And with Lee, he is so much more than that, he is the "Witten" to our Defense.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2802
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
I wouldn't give him a shiney new nickel until he proves he can play a full season. Not for nothing, he's a great player, when he's healthy. Trouble is, he CANT STAY HEALTHY!
get out of town! Your freaking crazy!!!!

PAY THE MAN!!!!!!



You think so? You have a very short memory my friend. Or perhaps you are just a young'in. Either way, I will jog your memory.

There was time when we did exactly what you advocate. It was during the waining years of our dynasty. Jerry threw big bucks at guys like Deion Sanders, Troy Aikman, Charles Haley, Tony Tolbert, and a host of other big name players. Problem was, they began to break down and miss significant playing time. (for the record significant playing time is described as follows: When a player misses anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks or above)

What that eventually led to was salary cap prison. We had so much money tied up in players that could not get on the field, that we could not afford to bring in any healthy available players. Basically we were paying for the name and the potential. Unfortunatley, that dosen't get it done on the field.

Now, is Lee a solid LB? Yes!
Can he eventually be mentioned with the greats? Yes!
Can he be the vocal and emotional leader of a fiery defense that is dominant for years to come? Yes!
BIGGEST QUESTION OF ALL: Can he stay healthy? Ummmmmmmmm????

See what I'm getting at? This team, of all teams, can ill afford to continue to pay big money to players that cannot deliver for 1 reason or another be it they are getting old, they are over hyped, they are inthe wrong system, or in Lee's case (and a host of other Cowboys players) cannot stay healthy.

So go ahead, throw the checkbook at him, sign your life away, but when he is spending another year on IR and we have no money to bring in any one else, you can all talk about what a great player he COULD BE IF.....
ha! A young-in you say! Ha! Obviously you don't know much about me.

I understand your reason for caution, but I don't see it being much of a problem with Lee. Sure he has had hi injury problems, but they have all cone to differerent parts of the body. 1st season missed 2 games while still recovering from an ACL in college, 2nd season missed 1 game due to a hand injury (then went all beast mode with a club), 3rd season, a freaking broken toe, really???

There are certain types of guys you can't afford to let walk away, and Lee is one of them. You just don't let a top 3 player at his position walk, period! And with Lee, he is so much more than that, he is the "Witten" to our Defense.



I never said anything about lettign the guy walk! Let's not go all cacka coo coo here.

I simply said I wouldn't throw top 3 LB money at him just yet because he has not given us an entire season yet. There are certain players in the league, not just Dallas (although they are the only ones I care about) that could be great if they could stay on the field. Problem is, many of them cannot. Here is a list, off the top of my head, of players for Dallas that are Iron Men vs. China Dolls:

Iron Men:
1. J. Witten - without question.
2. D. Ware
3. T. Romo
4. D. Bryant (in spite of his past injuries, he is showing some true grit this season. He is winning me over in this department.)
5. Truthfully, I'm hard pressed to find any others.

China Dolls:
1. F. Jones
2. S. Lee
3. M. Austin
4. J. Ratliff
5. D. Murray
6. B. Carter ( Although a little early since he didn't play last year, but agin, that goes in the "often hurt" category)
7. M. Johnson- See above.
8. K. Kowalski (Had high hopes for him at one time)
9. D. Arkin (Is he even onthe team?)
10. M. Jenkins


So, of this list, how many do you want to throw top tier money at and how many do you want out?
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waremd


Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 933
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
I wouldn't give him a shiney new nickel until he proves he can play a full season. Not for nothing, he's a great player, when he's healthy. Trouble is, he CANT STAY HEALTHY!
get out of town! Your freaking crazy!!!!

PAY THE MAN!!!!!!



You think so? You have a very short memory my friend. Or perhaps you are just a young'in. Either way, I will jog your memory.

There was time when we did exactly what you advocate. It was during the waining years of our dynasty. Jerry threw big bucks at guys like Deion Sanders, Troy Aikman, Charles Haley, Tony Tolbert, and a host of other big name players. Problem was, they began to break down and miss significant playing time. (for the record significant playing time is described as follows: When a player misses anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks or above)

What that eventually led to was salary cap prison. We had so much money tied up in players that could not get on the field, that we could not afford to bring in any healthy available players. Basically we were paying for the name and the potential. Unfortunatley, that dosen't get it done on the field.

Now, is Lee a solid LB? Yes!
Can he eventually be mentioned with the greats? Yes!
Can he be the vocal and emotional leader of a fiery defense that is dominant for years to come? Yes!
BIGGEST QUESTION OF ALL: Can he stay healthy? Ummmmmmmmm????

See what I'm getting at? This team, of all teams, can ill afford to continue to pay big money to players that cannot deliver for 1 reason or another be it they are getting old, they are over hyped, they are inthe wrong system, or in Lee's case (and a host of other Cowboys players) cannot stay healthy.

So go ahead, throw the checkbook at him, sign your life away, but when he is spending another year on IR and we have no money to bring in any one else, you can all talk about what a great player he COULD BE IF.....
ha! A young-in you say! Ha! Obviously you don't know much about me.

I understand your reason for caution, but I don't see it being much of a problem with Lee. Sure he has had hi injury problems, but they have all cone to differerent parts of the body. 1st season missed 2 games while still recovering from an ACL in college, 2nd season missed 1 game due to a hand injury (then went all beast mode with a club), 3rd season, a freaking broken toe, really???

There are certain types of guys you can't afford to let walk away, and Lee is one of them. You just don't let a top 3 player at his position walk, period! And with Lee, he is so much more than that, he is the "Witten" to our Defense.



I never said anything about lettign the guy walk! Let's not go all cacka coo coo here.

I simply said I wouldn't throw top 3 LB money at him just yet because he has not given us an entire season yet. There are certain players in the league, not just Dallas (although they are the only ones I care about) that could be great if they could stay on the field. Problem is, many of them cannot. Here is a list, off the top of my head, of players for Dallas that are Iron Men vs. China Dolls:

Iron Men:
1. J. Witten - without question.
2. D. Ware
3. T. Romo
4. D. Bryant (in spite of his past injuries, he is showing some true grit this season. He is winning me over in this department.)
5. Truthfully, I'm hard pressed to find any others.

China Dolls:
1. F. Jones
2. S. Lee
3. M. Austin
4. J. Ratliff
5. D. Murray
6. B. Carter ( Although a little early since he didn't play last year, but agin, that goes in the "often hurt" category)
7. M. Johnson- See above.
8. K. Kowalski (Had high hopes for him at one time)
9. D. Arkin (Is he even onthe team?)
10. M. Jenkins


So, of this list, how many do you want to throw top tier money at and how many do you want out?


Lee, Murray, and Carter everytime. I don't care what their injury history is thus far. They are all very young players and can overcome injuries, you can't put a price on a cornerstone player for our future.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2802
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waremd wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
I wouldn't give him a shiney new nickel until he proves he can play a full season. Not for nothing, he's a great player, when he's healthy. Trouble is, he CANT STAY HEALTHY!
get out of town! Your freaking crazy!!!!

PAY THE MAN!!!!!!



You think so? You have a very short memory my friend. Or perhaps you are just a young'in. Either way, I will jog your memory.

There was time when we did exactly what you advocate. It was during the waining years of our dynasty. Jerry threw big bucks at guys like Deion Sanders, Troy Aikman, Charles Haley, Tony Tolbert, and a host of other big name players. Problem was, they began to break down and miss significant playing time. (for the record significant playing time is described as follows: When a player misses anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks or above)

What that eventually led to was salary cap prison. We had so much money tied up in players that could not get on the field, that we could not afford to bring in any healthy available players. Basically we were paying for the name and the potential. Unfortunatley, that dosen't get it done on the field.

Now, is Lee a solid LB? Yes!
Can he eventually be mentioned with the greats? Yes!
Can he be the vocal and emotional leader of a fiery defense that is dominant for years to come? Yes!
BIGGEST QUESTION OF ALL: Can he stay healthy? Ummmmmmmmm????

See what I'm getting at? This team, of all teams, can ill afford to continue to pay big money to players that cannot deliver for 1 reason or another be it they are getting old, they are over hyped, they are inthe wrong system, or in Lee's case (and a host of other Cowboys players) cannot stay healthy.

So go ahead, throw the checkbook at him, sign your life away, but when he is spending another year on IR and we have no money to bring in any one else, you can all talk about what a great player he COULD BE IF.....
ha! A young-in you say! Ha! Obviously you don't know much about me.

I understand your reason for caution, but I don't see it being much of a problem with Lee. Sure he has had hi injury problems, but they have all cone to differerent parts of the body. 1st season missed 2 games while still recovering from an ACL in college, 2nd season missed 1 game due to a hand injury (then went all beast mode with a club), 3rd season, a freaking broken toe, really???

There are certain types of guys you can't afford to let walk away, and Lee is one of them. You just don't let a top 3 player at his position walk, period! And with Lee, he is so much more than that, he is the "Witten" to our Defense.



I never said anything about lettign the guy walk! Let's not go all cacka coo coo here.

I simply said I wouldn't throw top 3 LB money at him just yet because he has not given us an entire season yet. There are certain players in the league, not just Dallas (although they are the only ones I care about) that could be great if they could stay on the field. Problem is, many of them cannot. Here is a list, off the top of my head, of players for Dallas that are Iron Men vs. China Dolls:

Iron Men:
1. J. Witten - without question.
2. D. Ware
3. T. Romo
4. D. Bryant (in spite of his past injuries, he is showing some true grit this season. He is winning me over in this department.)
5. Truthfully, I'm hard pressed to find any others.

China Dolls:
1. F. Jones
2. S. Lee
3. M. Austin
4. J. Ratliff
5. D. Murray
6. B. Carter ( Although a little early since he didn't play last year, but agin, that goes in the "often hurt" category)
7. M. Johnson- See above.
8. K. Kowalski (Had high hopes for him at one time)
9. D. Arkin (Is he even onthe team?)
10. M. Jenkins


So, of this list, how many do you want to throw top tier money at and how many do you want out?


Lee, Murray, and Carter everytime. I don't care what their injury history is thus far. They are all very young players and can overcome injuries, you can't put a price on a cornerstone player for our future.



I admire your enthusiasum. And I really want to believe that Carter, Lee and others will be the fututre. Just re read my earlier post about salary cap prison. It can easily happen if you lock up a player long term with a huge contract and that player is on the IR more than the field. And we all know how Jerry likes to throw huge contracts around...ie: Scandrick?
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DKDALfan


Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 2266
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
DalCowboyzRule wrote:
I would like to sign Lee long term, but maybe only guarantee a small number of it, and have a ton of incentives as far as snaps/games played or something like that. If that's even allowed in football, I'm more used to baseball contracts. Laughing

Would something like 5 years, $30 million ($10 million guaranteed) with another potential $4 million/year if he played lets say 12 games?

Base salary of $6 million a year but if he plays 12 games he gets an extra $4 million at the end of the season?



Now there's an idea! I like it.


I would love if we could make sure that a lot of it would get paid in bonusses measured on how many games he plays. That would be great..

This is a must resign. We got nice depth at ILB, but a duo of Lee and Carter is simply just too awesome to let one of them go. Not only that, but this guy is a leader on this defence. He's almost an extra coach.
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