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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 982
Location: Tiverton RI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RDawg10 wrote:
moham-17 wrote:
patman wrote:
Sure two 1st rd picks and Quinn for Revis, You do realize that Revis can walk next year and the new team will have to sign him to a 12-15 mill a year contract. And you think you can get that bounty for a guy that is involved in 12 plays a game.


I'm sorry but that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.... If you think Revis is only involved in 12 plays a game....I don't even know what to say.

His impact is there every time the ball is snapped; not only that, offensive coaches have to gameplan around him.

And two firsts-once Revis demonstrates his knee is good to go of course- is not unlikely.


why are we talking about Revis.... hes going no where and not for a long time. Acl tears arent easy to come back from but many have came back and in fact came back stronger. Revis will be fine and he will be a jet for life. Now be done with this talk


First, Revis can walk after the 2013 season next year. He has a void in his deal. The jets in 2014 will have plenty of cap room to rework the voidable years, but if he chooses to walk it leaves the jets with abot 50 mill in cap room, any choice FA they sign however counts against getting a 3rd rd comp pick. so you might end up losing him and not get any comp.
at all.
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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 982
Location: Tiverton RI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moham-17 wrote:
patman wrote:
Sure two 1st rd picks and Quinn for Revis, You do realize that Revis can walk next year and the new team will have to sign him to a 12-15 mill a year contract. And you think you can get that bounty for a guy that is involved in 12 plays a game.


I'm sorry but that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.... If you think Revis is only involved in 12 plays a game....I don't even know what to say.

His impact is there every time the ball is snapped; not only that, offensive coaches have to gameplan around him.

And two firsts-once Revis demonstrates his knee is good to go of course- is not unlikely.


The guy Revis is covering is one of 4 receivers in a pattern,

If a team throws the ball 36 times a game that would be considered average.

With Revis being as great as he is, His assignment is probably the #1 target no more than 1 out of 6 plays. and his guy is the #2 or #3 target another 6 times. So 12 plays a game he is covering a target at a 12 mill dollars a year level. Every time his guy runs him 30 yds down the field as a decoy which they do the other 24 times a game, he is a waste of the 12 mill a year he wants to earn.

A DE or DT is involved in every play either as a rusher, having backside contain or as a tackler. he has a much bigger roll to play on the 35 running plays, and the35 passing plays with the exception of the times that the corners assignment is the #1 target.

It is not a stupid take on the relative value of a All-Pro corner with one year to go on his contract vs a DE with double digit sack potential along with 2 #1s value to a team.

Against some teams, Revis value is greater, say the bills, where he will take johnson who is a big part of the O. Against teams like the Pats, Saints, Falcons etc, teams that throw 4 and 5 guys into patterns on a play his impact is negated greatly.
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 4301
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:
moham-17 wrote:
patman wrote:
Sure two 1st rd picks and Quinn for Revis, You do realize that Revis can walk next year and the new team will have to sign him to a 12-15 mill a year contract. And you think you can get that bounty for a guy that is involved in 12 plays a game.


I'm sorry but that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.... If you think Revis is only involved in 12 plays a game....I don't even know what to say.

His impact is there every time the ball is snapped; not only that, offensive coaches have to gameplan around him.

And two firsts-once Revis demonstrates his knee is good to go of course- is not unlikely.


The guy Revis is covering is one of 4 receivers in a pattern,

If a team throws the ball 36 times a game that would be considered average.

With Revis being as great as he is, His assignment is probably the #1 target no more than 1 out of 6 plays. and his guy is the #2 or #3 target another 6 times. So 12 plays a game he is covering a target at a 12 mill dollars a year level. Every time his guy runs him 30 yds down the field as a decoy which they do the other 24 times a game, he is a waste of the 12 mill a year he wants to earn.

A DE or DT is involved in every play either as a rusher, having backside contain or as a tackler. he has a much bigger roll to play on the 35 running plays, and the35 passing plays with the exception of the times that the corners assignment is the #1 target.

It is not a stupid take on the relative value of a All-Pro corner with one year to go on his contract vs a DE with double digit sack potential along with 2 #1s value to a team.

Against some teams, Revis value is greater, say the bills, where he will take johnson who is a big part of the O. Against teams like the Pats, Saints, Falcons etc, teams that throw 4 and 5 guys into patterns on a play his impact is negated greatly.


But we don't play against the Saints, Falcons, or say the Packers. The Pats are the only team in the AFC that can really do that.
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jpt331


Joined: 21 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get rid of Harris and Holmes this off-season and I'll be happy
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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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Location: Tiverton RI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik, Yeah The Pats are the only one in the AFC that throw 5 out there regularly but a lot of teams like Balt, Cinci, Denver and Pitt throw 4 out there. In a year Philbin will have WR in Miami to run the GB offense. And Luck will be surrounded soon enough.

The premise of my argument is that a CB can be schemed against. You can't do that against a DE like Quinn unless you double him which just creates more problems elsewhere.

To think you can get 2#1 and a DE for one year of Revis is rediculous.

As if St Louis Could not sign Grimes, or rogers-cromartie to play opposite jenkins, keep Quinn and use two #1s (both top 15) to fix the oline. Does not sound like much of a even balance does it?
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rdelaney89


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 1618
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:
Malik, Yeah The Pats are the only one in the AFC that throw 5 out there regularly but a lot of teams like Balt, Cinci, Denver and Pitt throw 4 out there. In a year Philbin will have WR in Miami to run the GB offense. And Luck will be surrounded soon enough.

The premise of my argument is that a CB can be schemed against. You can't do that against a DE like Quinn unless you double him which just creates more problems elsewhere.

To think you can get 2#1 and a DE for one year of Revis is rediculous.

As if St Louis Could not sign Grimes, or rogers-cromartie to play opposite jenkins, keep Quinn and use two #1s (both top 15) to fix the oline. Does not sound like much of a even balance does it?


It sounds good in theory and I do like where you're coming from because it is an educated decision. I think the front office would be sending the wrong message by traded our best player, great role model, and a leader in the locker room.

I mean if you could guarantee that the 1 first round picks would be stars then yea I think you have to entertain that deal but I think the burn from Gholston is still fresh in Woody's mind.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 5661
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:

The guy Revis is covering is one of 4 receivers in a pattern,

If a team throws the ball 36 times a game that would be considered average.

With Revis being as great as he is, His assignment is probably the #1 target no more than 1 out of 6 plays. and his guy is the #2 or #3 target another 6 times. So 12 plays a game he is covering a target at a 12 mill dollars a year level. Every time his guy runs him 30 yds down the field as a decoy which they do the other 24 times a game, he is a waste of the 12 mill a year he wants to earn.

A DE or DT is involved in every play either as a rusher, having backside contain or as a tackler. he has a much bigger roll to play on the 35 running plays, and the35 passing plays with the exception of the times that the corners assignment is the #1 target.

It is not a stupid take on the relative value of a All-Pro corner with one year to go on his contract vs a DE with double digit sack potential along with 2 #1s value to a team.

Against some teams, Revis value is greater, say the bills, where he will take johnson who is a big part of the O. Against teams like the Pats, Saints, Falcons etc, teams that throw 4 and 5 guys into patterns on a play his impact is negated greatly.


... Revis covers one of 4 Receivers normally the best receiver on the team following him around the field and rotating at times to who players deemed crucial to the situation. Also Revis is an excellent Tackler, probably one of the best at Corner in the NFL. And also he can and at times does come off his coverage on one man and jump other routes on his side of the field.

So now add running plays to your count because its not a side you want to run to. Also add the fact that that receiver wasting Revis' time also happens to be the teams best WR so in turn he is wasting his time then. Revis is involved in every play because he changes the mindset of playcalling for the offense and allows the defense to do more creative or risky things elsewhere such as sending extra rushers or calling trap coverages.

An elite shutdown corner like Revis, or Woodson when he was playing corner earns their money. You dont throw a player with that kind of talent away in his prime for a "possible" stud at a "more valuable" position while creating a hole on your own team where said elite player was removed. Especially because Revis is a class act, and all his teammates know he gives his 120% every time he's on or off the field.

And another un accounted factor is how much he makes those around him better and both Wilson and Cromartie have said that Revis played a part in their improvements. Some will say Wilson is bad, but remember how hopeless he was when he first entered the NFL.

Revis is a solid player well worth his money. There is no logic in trying to trade him if healthy.
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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 982
Location: Tiverton RI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KBS756 wrote:
patman wrote:

The guy Revis is covering is one of 4 receivers in a pattern,

If a team throws the ball 36 times a game that would be considered average.

With Revis being as great as he is, His assignment is probably the #1 target no more than 1 out of 6 plays. and his guy is the #2 or #3 target another 6 times. So 12 plays a game he is covering a target at a 12 mill dollars a year level. Every time his guy runs him 30 yds down the field as a decoy which they do the other 24 times a game, he is a waste of the 12 mill a year he wants to earn.

A DE or DT is involved in every play either as a rusher, having backside contain or as a tackler. he has a much bigger roll to play on the 35 running plays, and the35 passing plays with the exception of the times that the corners assignment is the #1 target.

It is not a stupid take on the relative value of a All-Pro corner with one year to go on his contract vs a DE with double digit sack potential along with 2 #1s value to a team.

Against some teams, Revis value is greater, say the bills, where he will take johnson who is a big part of the O. Against teams like the Pats, Saints, Falcons etc, teams that throw 4 and 5 guys into patterns on a play his impact is negated greatly.


... Revis covers one of 4 Receivers normally the best receiver on the team following him around the field and rotating at times to who players deemed crucial to the situation. Also Revis is an excellent Tackler, probably one of the best at Corner in the NFL. And also he can and at times does come off his coverage on one man and jump other routes on his side of the field.

So now add running plays to your count because its not a side you want to run to. Also add the fact that that receiver wasting Revis' time also happens to be the teams best WR so in turn he is wasting his time then. Revis is involved in every play because he changes the mindset of playcalling for the offense and allows the defense to do more creative or risky things elsewhere such as sending extra rushers or calling trap coverages.

An elite shutdown corner like Revis, or Woodson when he was playing corner earns their money. You dont throw a player with that kind of talent away in his prime for a "possible" stud at a "more valuable" position while creating a hole on your own team where said elite player was removed. Especially because Revis is a class act, and all his teammates know he gives his 120% every time he's on or off the field.

And another un accounted factor is how much he makes those around him better and both Wilson and Cromartie have said that Revis played a part in their improvements. Some will say Wilson is bad, but remember how hopeless he was when he first entered the NFL.

Revis is a solid player well worth his money. There is no logic in trying to trade him if healthy.



First, No one runs away from Revis, Please. He is not a tackling force by any means. He just does not shy away from tackling like some corners.


I 100% agree that the jets should do all they can to extend him. Trading him does not make any sense at all. My post had to do with a posters statement that had him with the ridiculous trade value of a starting DE, in the 2nd year of his contract making 1 mill a year and two mid 1st rd picks for a player with one year on his deal left and who has expressed the desire to be the highest paid def player in the league. Plus Revis will hit the cap harder if he is traded due to the phony years that tanny stuck onto spread out the SB

We can agree to disagree on the value of a DE vs the value of a CB. You think a corner is more important- fine. Revis is a class act? the guy has held out twice since being drafted, refused to quell rumors that he would not report this year, creating more negative stories about the team. Refused to call out Holmes and take a locker room leadership position last year.

Revis is the best corner in the NFL, gives 100% when he is out there, but Revis is #1 to Revis.
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xenajets


Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 1190
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:
KBS756 wrote:
patman wrote:

The guy Revis is covering is one of 4 receivers in a pattern,

If a team throws the ball 36 times a game that would be considered average.

With Revis being as great as he is, His assignment is probably the #1 target no more than 1 out of 6 plays. and his guy is the #2 or #3 target another 6 times. So 12 plays a game he is covering a target at a 12 mill dollars a year level. Every time his guy runs him 30 yds down the field as a decoy which they do the other 24 times a game, he is a waste of the 12 mill a year he wants to earn.

A DE or DT is involved in every play either as a rusher, having backside contain or as a tackler. he has a much bigger roll to play on the 35 running plays, and the35 passing plays with the exception of the times that the corners assignment is the #1 target.

It is not a stupid take on the relative value of a All-Pro corner with one year to go on his contract vs a DE with double digit sack potential along with 2 #1s value to a team.

Against some teams, Revis value is greater, say the bills, where he will take johnson who is a big part of the O. Against teams like the Pats, Saints, Falcons etc, teams that throw 4 and 5 guys into patterns on a play his impact is negated greatly.


... Revis covers one of 4 Receivers normally the best receiver on the team following him around the field and rotating at times to who players deemed crucial to the situation. Also Revis is an excellent Tackler, probably one of the best at Corner in the NFL. And also he can and at times does come off his coverage on one man and jump other routes on his side of the field.

So now add running plays to your count because its not a side you want to run to. Also add the fact that that receiver wasting Revis' time also happens to be the teams best WR so in turn he is wasting his time then. Revis is involved in every play because he changes the mindset of playcalling for the offense and allows the defense to do more creative or risky things elsewhere such as sending extra rushers or calling trap coverages.

An elite shutdown corner like Revis, or Woodson when he was playing corner earns their money. You dont throw a player with that kind of talent away in his prime for a "possible" stud at a "more valuable" position while creating a hole on your own team where said elite player was removed. Especially because Revis is a class act, and all his teammates know he gives his 120% every time he's on or off the field.

And another un accounted factor is how much he makes those around him better and both Wilson and Cromartie have said that Revis played a part in their improvements. Some will say Wilson is bad, but remember how hopeless he was when he first entered the NFL.

Revis is a solid player well worth his money. There is no logic in trying to trade him if healthy.



First, No one runs away from Revis, Please. He is not a tackling force by any means. He just does not shy away from tackling like some corners.


I 100% agree that the jets should do all they can to extend him. Trading him does not make any sense at all. My post had to do with a posters statement that had him with the ridiculous trade value of a starting DE, in the 2nd year of his contract making 1 mill a year and two mid 1st rd picks for a player with one year on his deal left and who has expressed the desire to be the highest paid def player in the league. Plus Revis will hit the cap harder if he is traded due to the phony years that tanny stuck onto spread out the SB

We can agree to disagree on the value of a DE vs the value of a CB. You think a corner is more important- fine. Revis is a class act? the guy has held out twice since being drafted, refused to quell rumors that he would not report this year, creating more negative stories about the team. Refused to call out Holmes and take a locker room leadership position last year.

Revis is the best corner in the NFL, gives 100% when he is out there, but Revis is #1 to Revis.


I think you need to go back and actually reading, i said that's the sort of ransom deal that would even get me interested. I did not once say that is plausible or remotely possible. Maybe i should start i thread saying how in the best interest of the Patriots they should trade Brady to relieve yourself of his salary! But that would be dumb just like it would be for us to trade in my opinion the best defensive player in the NFL and without doubt our best player.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:


First, No one runs away from Revis, Please. He is not a tackling force by any means. He just does not shy away from tackling like some corners.


I 100% agree that the jets should do all they can to extend him. Trading him does not make any sense at all. My post had to do with a posters statement that had him with the ridiculous trade value of a starting DE, in the 2nd year of his contract making 1 mill a year and two mid 1st rd picks for a player with one year on his deal left and who has expressed the desire to be the highest paid def player in the league. Plus Revis will hit the cap harder if he is traded due to the phony years that tanny stuck onto spread out the SB

We can agree to disagree on the value of a DE vs the value of a CB. You think a corner is more important- fine. Revis is a class act? the guy has held out twice since being drafted, refused to quell rumors that he would not report this year, creating more negative stories about the team. Refused to call out Holmes and take a locker room leadership position last year.

Revis is the best corner in the NFL, gives 100% when he is out there, but Revis is #1 to Revis.


Revis is one of the best tackling corners, they might not run away from him but he does have an effect on the play.

If he wants to be the highest paid Defensive player in the NFL and a team believes he deserves to be I have no issue with him expressing such an interest. Also when it comes to class act part... I do not consider the business of the NFL as a negative as long as there is no damage done in terms of play. Players play for a very short window and it is their time to maximize their earnings, so I don't feel a player negotiating hard for that money does to make him a bad guy. And in terms of the Jets locker room I've seen a lot of other defensive players say he's helped em out and made them better.

I think an Elite DE/OLB like what Aldon Smith is doing this year is about equal to an eilte cover corner. For the jets the fact that their pass rush is truly sub par makes this look lopsided a bit.
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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 982
Location: Tiverton RI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xenajets wrote:
patman wrote:
KBS756 wrote:
patman wrote:

The guy Revis is covering is one of 4 receivers in a pattern,

If a team throws the ball 36 times a game that would be considered average.

With Revis being as great as he is, His assignment is probably the #1 target no more than 1 out of 6 plays. and his guy is the #2 or #3 target another 6 times. So 12 plays a game he is covering a target at a 12 mill dollars a year level. Every time his guy runs him 30 yds down the field as a decoy which they do the other 24 times a game, he is a waste of the 12 mill a year he wants to earn.

A DE or DT is involved in every play either as a rusher, having backside contain or as a tackler. he has a much bigger roll to play on the 35 running plays, and the35 passing plays with the exception of the times that the corners assignment is the #1 target.

It is not a stupid take on the relative value of a All-Pro corner with one year to go on his contract vs a DE with double digit sack potential along with 2 #1s value to a team.

Against some teams, Revis value is greater, say the bills, where he will take johnson who is a big part of the O. Against teams like the Pats, Saints, Falcons etc, teams that throw 4 and 5 guys into patterns on a play his impact is negated greatly.


... Revis covers one of 4 Receivers normally the best receiver on the team following him around the field and rotating at times to who players deemed crucial to the situation. Also Revis is an excellent Tackler, probably one of the best at Corner in the NFL. And also he can and at times does come off his coverage on one man and jump other routes on his side of the field.

So now add running plays to your count because its not a side you want to run to. Also add the fact that that receiver wasting Revis' time also happens to be the teams best WR so in turn he is wasting his time then. Revis is involved in every play because he changes the mindset of playcalling for the offense and allows the defense to do more creative or risky things elsewhere such as sending extra rushers or calling trap coverages.

An elite shutdown corner like Revis, or Woodson when he was playing corner earns their money. You dont throw a player with that kind of talent away in his prime for a "possible" stud at a "more valuable" position while creating a hole on your own team where said elite player was removed. Especially because Revis is a class act, and all his teammates know he gives his 120% every time he's on or off the field.

And another un accounted factor is how much he makes those around him better and both Wilson and Cromartie have said that Revis played a part in their improvements. Some will say Wilson is bad, but remember how hopeless he was when he first entered the NFL.

Revis is a solid player well worth his money. There is no logic in trying to trade him if healthy.



First, No one runs away from Revis, Please. He is not a tackling force by any means. He just does not shy away from tackling like some corners.


I 100% agree that the jets should do all they can to extend him. Trading him does not make any sense at all. My post had to do with a posters statement that had him with the ridiculous trade value of a starting DE, in the 2nd year of his contract making 1 mill a year and two mid 1st rd picks for a player with one year on his deal left and who has expressed the desire to be the highest paid def player in the league. Plus Revis will hit the cap harder if he is traded due to the phony years that tanny stuck onto spread out the SB

We can agree to disagree on the value of a DE vs the value of a CB. You think a corner is more important- fine. Revis is a class act? the guy has held out twice since being drafted, refused to quell rumors that he would not report this year, creating more negative stories about the team. Refused to call out Holmes and take a locker room leadership position last year.

Revis is the best corner in the NFL, gives 100% when he is out there, but Revis is #1 to Revis.


I think you need to go back and actually reading, i said that's the sort of ransom deal that would even get me interested. I did not once say that is plausible or remotely possible. Maybe i should start i thread saying how in the best interest of the Patriots they should trade Brady to relieve yourself of his salary! But that would be dumb just like it would be for us to trade in my opinion the best defensive player in the NFL and without doubt our best player.


Sorry, I thought you meant that it what his perceived value was.

I said this twice already, The jets should not trade Revisl!!! It makes no sense at all. His cap hit next year is about 7.5 mill, if he is traded all three years of un-amortized bonus hit the cap for a total of 9 mill. The jets are cash strapped in 2013 already and are positioned to have over 50mill of cap room in 2014, more than enough to keep him.
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MoLewis57


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KBS756 wrote:
patman wrote:


First, No one runs away from Revis, Please. He is not a tackling force by any means. He just does not shy away from tackling like some corners.


I 100% agree that the jets should do all they can to extend him. Trading him does not make any sense at all. My post had to do with a posters statement that had him with the ridiculous trade value of a starting DE, in the 2nd year of his contract making 1 mill a year and two mid 1st rd picks for a player with one year on his deal left and who has expressed the desire to be the highest paid def player in the league. Plus Revis will hit the cap harder if he is traded due to the phony years that tanny stuck onto spread out the SB

We can agree to disagree on the value of a DE vs the value of a CB. You think a corner is more important- fine. Revis is a class act? the guy has held out twice since being drafted, refused to quell rumors that he would not report this year, creating more negative stories about the team. Refused to call out Holmes and take a locker room leadership position last year.

Revis is the best corner in the NFL, gives 100% when he is out there, but Revis is #1 to Revis.


Revis is one of the best tackling corners, they might not run away from him but he does have an effect on the play.

If he wants to be the highest paid Defensive player in the NFL and a team believes he deserves to be I have no issue with him expressing such an interest. Also when it comes to class act part... I do not consider the business of the NFL as a negative as long as there is no damage done in terms of play. Players play for a very short window and it is their time to maximize their earnings, so I don't feel a player negotiating hard for that money does to make him a bad guy. And in terms of the Jets locker room I've seen a lot of other defensive players say he's helped em out and made them better.

I think an Elite DE/OLB like what Aldon Smith is doing this year is about equal to an eilte cover corner. For the jets the fact that their pass rush is truly sub par makes this look lopsided a bit.


How can u think that what Revis does and what Smith is doing this the same? Smith is beasting this year
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