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Geno Smith is worth drafting number one
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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
Wr screens, short passes, and slants are becoming increasingly popular in today's nfl, especially with these crazy hurry up offenses. That is not something to knock Geno for.


Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...nobody is knocking Geno. But those aren't the only passes that an NFL quarterback needs to make. All I was saying is I would like to see some of the other throws he is going to have to make on a consistent basis in the NFL. As it stands, the offense he plays in does not give him as many opportunities to get reps making those kinds of throws.

And honestly, I don't want to see dump off pass after dump off pass - we already have a quarterback that isn't capable of anything else but dump off passes.

Again, I am not dumping on Smith, just stating what I have seen/not seen and my impressions. No need to have a slobberfest over anyone yet.

LOL




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kylecumberland


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonwayne wrote:
If Pioli prefers Wilson over Geno, then that only reinforces my belief that Geno is the best QB in this draft class.


I agree with the sentiment that Pioli does not know how to evalutate Quarterbacks ( he traded for Cassel) or head coaches (haley and romeo), but I believe the scouts that we have are actually pretty good talent evaluators.. and he relies on them heavily when it comes to the draft, with the exception of the 2009 draft. The 2009 draft was all pioli's evaluations because he didn't trust the peterson/edwards scouts. The four decisions Pioli has made BY HIMSELF have been epic failures. the first was Todd Haley, the second was Matt Cassel, The third was Tyson Jackson, and the fourth was Romeo Crennel. All of the other drafts he relied heavily on regional and area scouts...and I actually think they did a good job in the 2010-2012 drafts (even though i believe coaching and quarterback play are holding back Eric Berry and Jon Baldwin...I still like those players. Houston, Asamoah, Hudson, Poe, etc. I think those have been good drafts. I suspect we will see these players blossom when they get a coach who knows what he is doing, and a competent QB when it comes to the offensive skill players.

So Maybe our regional and area scouts are the ones who are saying the like Tyler Wilson. After all they are the ones out on the road watching all of these games.

Also the other area that Pioli makes the decisions without assistance is free agency.....look how that has turned out with Routt and Carr. My take is that Pioli is clueless but has been surrounded by smart people his whole career. He road the coat tails of BB in New England, and he has put together a pretty good group of talent evaluators here in KC. But anytime scott HIMSELF makes any kind of decision he usually screws it up.
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JHawk24


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely not. As an organization you can't put that value on a premium pick when it's not worthy. For hypothetical reasoning, let's say we have the same draft "value" as we did in 2012. Would we be willing to give up more than the Redskins did to acquire RGIII for Geno Smith? If anybody in this forum even quanders that thought they have lost all credibility IMHO. RGIII and Luck are franchise QB's. I would rate Teddy Bridgewater as the best NFL prosepect with either Geno Smith or Aaron Murray second currently in college. That being said, their value does not warrant a top 7 pick. Either we maximize our investment in losing whether by trading down for more power, or we take the player that belongs in that slot. And no offense to Ryk with Wilson or the lovers of Barkley, they will never be Super Bowl caliber starters in the NFL. ESPECIALLY if the league keeps true to their word that they will rewrite the rules on blocking below the waste. Coverage and speed and/or power bltizers will become the premium on D and so will come the quick armed fast ballers with command at QB. Even then, arm strength won't be the only trait, but pocket presence as well. The Quinn's or the Landry Jones's of the world who don't have the guts to step up now, no matter their arm strength will be obsolete as well. That's where an Aaron Murray at only 6'1 or a Tahj Boyd at 6'2 tops will continue what Brees, Luck, Cam, Colin K, and RGIII have introduced into the league. And the Peyton's and the Brady's of the world are a rare breed who don't need elusiveness but will actually step into the buckets of the pocket to avoid pressure and take the pop are a dying breed and the Staffords of the world who have perfected the throw on the run will prevail.

Long story short, we over value our QB positonal need because of the lack of priority given to it by the organization. Geno may very well be a top 10 QB in the league, but if we were to draft him, we better be trading down. And to the people that say we may not get him, there is not a single thing about him that makes him as much of a sure bet as a Joeckel, Lotulelei or Jones.
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Last edited by JHawk24 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JHawk24


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
Wr screens, short passes, and slants are becoming increasingly popular in today's nfl, especially with these crazy hurry up offenses. That is not something to knock Geno for.


Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...nobody is knocking Geno. But those aren't the only passes that an NFL quarterback needs to make. All I was saying is I would like to see some of the other throws he is going to have to make on a consistent basis in the NFL. As it stands, the offense he plays in does not give him as many opportunities to get reps making those kinds of throws.

And honestly, I don't want to see dump off pass after dump off pass - we already have a quarterback that isn't capable of anything else but dump off passes.

Again, I am not dumping on Smith, just stating what I have seen/not seen and my impressions. No need to have a slobberfest over anyone yet.

LOL




Nice enough for you?


The fact he remained still in the pocket with questionable shift of his throwing weight with 15 yards off his right tackle and the DB coming in didnt turn around? In the NFL this play doesn't transpire and if it does, Geno goes down for two points and a free kick or worst an interception. Geno is hands down the best eligible QB in this draft but this throw isn't anything to brag about.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JHawk24 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
Wr screens, short passes, and slants are becoming increasingly popular in today's nfl, especially with these crazy hurry up offenses. That is not something to knock Geno for.


Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...nobody is knocking Geno. But those aren't the only passes that an NFL quarterback needs to make. All I was saying is I would like to see some of the other throws he is going to have to make on a consistent basis in the NFL. As it stands, the offense he plays in does not give him as many opportunities to get reps making those kinds of throws.

And honestly, I don't want to see dump off pass after dump off pass - we already have a quarterback that isn't capable of anything else but dump off passes.

Again, I am not dumping on Smith, just stating what I have seen/not seen and my impressions. No need to have a slobberfest over anyone yet.

LOL




Nice enough for you?


The fact he remained still in the pocket with questionable shift of his throwing weight with 15 yards off his right tackle and the DB coming in didnt turn around? In the NFL this play doesn't transpire and if it does, Geno goes down for two points and a free kick or worst an interception. Geno is hands down the best eligible QB in this draft but this throw isn't anything to brag about.


Uh what? His throw is perfect technically. No shift or leaning any way whatsoever. He threw into double coverage yes, but put it in a window for his WR to get it, which is what they did.
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EB29


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you say he could be a top ten QB in the league but then say we better trade down if we draft him? That's bloody insane. I'd gladly give up 2 first rounders for a top ten QB.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JHawk24 wrote:
Absolutely not. As an organization you can't put that value on a premium pick when it's not worthy. For hypothetical reasoning, let's say we have the same draft "value" as we did in 2012. Would we be willing to give up more than the Redskins did to acquire RGIII for Geno Smith? If anybody in this forum even quanders that thought they have lost all credibility IMHO. RGIII and Luck are franchise QB's. I would rate Teddy Bridgewater as the best NFL prosepect with either Geno Smith or Aaron Murray second currently in college. That being said, their value does not warrant a top 7 pick. Either we maximize our investment in losing whether by trading down for more power, or we take the player that belongs in that slot. And no offense to Ryk with Wilson or the lovers of Barkley, they will never be Super Bowl caliber starters in the NFL. ESPECIALLY if the league keeps true to their word that they will rewrite the rules on blocking below the waste. Coverage and speed and/or power bltizers will become the premium on D and so will come the quick armed fast ballers with command at QB. Even then, arm strength won't be the only trait, but pocket presence as well. The Quinn's or the Landry Jones's of the world who don't have the guts to step up now, no matter their arm strength will be obsolete as well. That's where an Aaron Murray at only 6'1 or a Tahj Boyd at 6'2 tops will continue what Brees, Luck, Cam, Colin K, and RGIII have introduced into the league. And the Peyton's and the Brady's of the world are a rare breed who don't need elusiveness but will actually step into the buckets of the pocket to avoid pressure and take the pop are a dying breed and the Staffords of the world who have perfected the throw on the run will prevail.

Long story short, we over value our QB positonal need because of the lack of priority given to it by the organization. Geno may very well be a top 10 QB in the league, but if we were to draft him, we better be trading down. And to the people that say we may not get him, there is not a single thing about him that makes him as much of a sure bet as a Joeckel, Lotulelei or Jones.



Wait...you said all that to say it's ok to take a chance on a LT,ILB,DL or whatever that is a fairly sure bet to become a top 10 player at #1, but it's not ok to use a top 10 pick on a QB who may very well become a top 10 QB. Confused I'm as confused as ever.
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lawful yet1


Joined: 22 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
JHawk24 wrote:
Absolutely not. As an organization you can't put that value on a premium pick when it's not worthy. For hypothetical reasoning, let's say we have the same draft "value" as we did in 2012. Would we be willing to give up more than the Redskins did to acquire RGIII for Geno Smith? If anybody in this forum even quanders that thought they have lost all credibility IMHO. RGIII and Luck are franchise QB's. I would rate Teddy Bridgewater as the best NFL prosepect with either Geno Smith or Aaron Murray second currently in college. That being said, their value does not warrant a top 7 pick. Either we maximize our investment in losing whether by trading down for more power, or we take the player that belongs in that slot. And no offense to Ryk with Wilson or the lovers of Barkley, they will never be Super Bowl caliber starters in the NFL. ESPECIALLY if the league keeps true to their word that they will rewrite the rules on blocking below the waste. Coverage and speed and/or power bltizers will become the premium on D and so will come the quick armed fast ballers with command at QB. Even then, arm strength won't be the only trait, but pocket presence as well. The Quinn's or the Landry Jones's of the world who don't have the guts to step up now, no matter their arm strength will be obsolete as well. That's where an Aaron Murray at only 6'1 or a Tahj Boyd at 6'2 tops will continue what Brees, Luck, Cam, Colin K, and RGIII have introduced into the league. And the Peyton's and the Brady's of the world are a rare breed who don't need elusiveness but will actually step into the buckets of the pocket to avoid pressure and take the pop are a dying breed and the Staffords of the world who have perfected the throw on the run will prevail.

Long story short, we over value our QB positonal need because of the lack of priority given to it by the organization. Geno may very well be a top 10 QB in the league, but if we were to draft him, we better be trading down. And to the people that say we may not get him, there is not a single thing about him that makes him as much of a sure bet as a Joeckel, Lotulelei or Jones.



Wait...you said all that to say it's ok to take a chance on a LT,ILB,DL or whatever that is a fairly sure bet to become a top 10 player at #1, but it's not ok to use a top 10 pick on a QB who may very well become a top 10 QB. Confused I'm as confused as ever.
i think the point he's trying to make is that if your going to take a qb #1 overall you better be dam sure he's a franchise calliber player and me personally i dont see geno fitting that rolle good yes but so would be wilson murray and jones all of wich could be had later.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if you're taking a LT or DL, you better be damn sure they're gonna make more of an impact than a QB.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
and if you're taking a LT or DL, you better be damn sure they're gonna make more of an impact than a QB.


And you better have a pretty sizable hole at that position (which we most certainly do not at LT.)
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jimmydee


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

N. Dame ILB, Ta'o (or how ever you spell it), trade back up and take the QB.

But not without getting rid of Pioli FIRST.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you factor in the relatively small contract for a #1 overall guy under the new CBA, it makes "taking a shot" on someone much more palatable. I for one am all for it, so long as we don't waste too much time. I'm guessing Geno gets 2 full seasons to show good progress towards being a very good QB (not even elite), and demonstrates on a regular basis he's capable of beating a defense. If not, then we go back to the well, and a well that is shaping up to be very strong in the 2015 draft.

Anyone know how many true and/or redshirt freshman are starting and playing well this year? Of course there's muh boi Manziel, but he's just the tip of the ice berg. You've got a few out west that look promising in UCLA's Brett Hundley, USC's Max Wittek, Oregon's Marcus Mariota, and Stanford's Kevin Hogan. At Notre Dame you've got Everett Golson, and Ohio State's got Braxton Miller. And this isn't even talking about guys who are behind more senior QB's like Philip Rivers little brother at LSU, OU's Kendal Thompson, and lots of others with some real upside, but nothing proven yet.

This is a bad year for QB's, not doubt, at least in comparison to 2012 and 2004. However, we should not prevent us from taking the best of the bunch, which all signs are pointing to us being in position to do. If it works out, great, we've most likely put ourselves into SB contention for the next decade. If not, we've wasted a 1st round pick and roughly $25MM (what Cassel cost over 2 years), but at least we tried, and now we're in position for what looks like one of the best QB classes ever.

Yes I know a lot can change in 2-3 years, and not all of these guys will be good, or come out in the same class, but even spread over 2-3 drafts, there could still be 4 legit franchise QB's each year.

Lets take a shot now, because no other player could possibly improve our team more then a good QB. If we're going to capitalize on JC, DJ, Tamba, Flowers, Bowe, and several other's prime, we need a QB this year. Don't let the failures of past GM's preclude us from taking a need at the top. We can always try again in a few years if it doesn't work, ex. Jacksonville.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
and if you're taking a LT or DL, you better be damn sure they're gonna make more of an impact than a QB.


And you better have a pretty sizable hole at that position (which we most certainly do not at LT.)
if we could retain albert and move him to left guard and pick up a franchise left tackle you bet your ace that would be a better pick then reaching for a qb just look whats going on in philli the oline makes or breaks a offense.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
When you factor in the relatively small contract for a #1 overall guy under the new CBA, it makes "taking a shot" on someone much more palatable. I for one am all for it, so long as we don't waste too much time. I'm guessing Geno gets 2 full seasons to show good progress towards being a very good QB (not even elite), and demonstrates on a regular basis he's capable of beating a defense. If not, then we go back to the well, and a well that is shaping up to be very strong in the 2015 draft.

Anyone know how many true and/or redshirt freshman are starting and playing well this year? Of course there's muh boi Manziel, but he's just the tip of the ice berg. You've got a few out west that look promising in UCLA's Brett Hundley, USC's Max Wittek, Oregon's Marcus Mariota, and Stanford's Kevin Hogan. At Notre Dame you've got Everett Golson, and Ohio State's got Braxton Miller. And this isn't even talking about guys who are behind more senior QB's like Philip Rivers little brother at LSU, OU's Kendal Thompson, and lots of others with some real upside, but nothing proven yet.

This is a bad year for QB's, not doubt, at least in comparison to 2012 and 2004. However, we should not prevent us from taking the best of the bunch, which all signs are pointing to us being in position to do. If it works out, great, we've most likely put ourselves into SB contention for the next decade. If not, we've wasted a 1st round pick and roughly $25MM (what Cassel cost over 2 years), but at least we tried, and now we're in position for what looks like one of the best QB classes ever.

Yes I know a lot can change in 2-3 years, and not all of these guys will be good, or come out in the same class, but even spread over 2-3 drafts, there could still be 4 legit franchise QB's each year.

Lets take a shot now, because no other player could possibly improve our team more then a good QB. If we're going to capitalize on JC, DJ, Tamba, Flowers, Bowe, and several other's prime, we need a QB this year. Don't let the failures of past GM's preclude us from taking a need at the top. We can always try again in a few years if it doesn't work, ex. Jacksonville.


Some names I would add that I didn't see in your list (in no particular order) :

Derek Carr, Fresno State (will be a senior if he doesn't declare this year)
Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville (will be a junior)
Jeff Driskel, Florida (will be a junior)
Aaron Murray, Georgia (will be a senior if he doesn't declare this year)
Zach Mettenberger, LSU (will be a senior)
Tyler Bray, Tennessee (will be a senior if he doesn't declare this year)
Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech (will be a senior if he doesn't declare this year)
A.J. McCarron, Alabama (will be a senior if he doesn't declare this year)
Tajh Boyd, Clemson (will be a senior if he doesn't declare this year)

I haven't mentioned Carr up to this point because I think there is a very good chance he returns to Fresno State for his senior year. IF he does declare, he is definitely a decent prospect to keep an eye on. Mettenberger has the prototypical physical skill set you look for but he will need a strong senior year to show some consistency. Obviously the same applies for Logan Thomas, who I really think needs to return to Virgina Tech. I had high hopes for him but I just don't know if he has the mental makeup to be a franchise quarterback at the next level.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lawful yet1 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
and if you're taking a LT or DL, you better be damn sure they're gonna make more of an impact than a QB.


And you better have a pretty sizable hole at that position (which we most certainly do not at LT.)
if we could retain albert and move him to left guard and pick up a franchise left tackle you bet your ace that would be a better pick then reaching for a qb just look whats going on in philli the oline makes or breaks a offense.



Our OL isn't even close to as bad as Philly's. We would be insane to do anything but take the #1 QB on our board.
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