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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:


I strongly disagree that "most pocket passers struggle to avoid rushers." Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, the other Manning (Eli), Cutler, Romo, Rivers, ect. all know how to avoid initial pressure.


Romo is not what I'd call a pocket passer. I've seen Sam avoid pass rushers in much of the same way I've seen the others avoid rushers but when you have multiple rushers break free or have free rushers, the QB is typically dead to rights.

Quote:
If you are referring to "non-mobile" QBs having trouble avoiding the rush, then yeah, duh, they struggle. You don't have to be fast to elude pressure while in the pocket, you just have to have balls, an area I see Sam lacking in. I would say "time will tell", but it kind of already has. If he can't learn to avoid the rush, this offense will never be better than mediocre under his direction.


Again, I've seen him utilize many of the same methods as those guys mentioned and he's avoided at least 1 sack a week since the bye. Gotten much better at it as the year has gone on.

Quote:
Look man, I think Bradford has the physical skills to turn around his play, but we are two games away from the conclusion of the season and I have not noticed any measurable improvement in his game.


Then you haven't been paying attention because his game has improved in every single measurable way.


I guess Romo can't be labeled a pocket passer, at least not a pure one.

Nine times out of ten, if there is pressure, Sam is either taking a sack or throwing an errant pass. When Amendola is around it helps, as he is clearly Sam's favorite outlet.

Not that I 100% agree with it, but here is an interesting article comparing Alex Smith and Bradford. I've been searching for QB stats against the blitz in 2012 and have not found any, so if anyone wants to help with that search, it would be great;

http://www.ramsherd.com/2012-articles/season/a-passing-comparison-sam-bradford-and-alex-smith.html
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:


I guess Romo can't be labeled a pocket passer, at least not a pure one.

Nine times out of ten, if there is pressure, Sam is either taking a sack or throwing an errant pass. When Amendola is around it helps, as he is clearly Sam's favorite outlet.

Not that I 100% agree with it, but here is an interesting article comparing Alex Smith and Bradford. I've been searching for QB stats against the blitz in 2012 and have not found any, so if anyone wants to help with that search, it would be great;

http://www.ramsherd.com/2012-articles/season/a-passing-comparison-sam-bradford-and-alex-smith.html


The stats and the game film doesn't back this.
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im riding with Jrs on this one, sam crumbles like a little byotch at first sight of a free rusher, occasionally yesterday i did see escape a couple times. But he panics way too early alot of the times. He reminds me alot of eli in his earlier days, hopefully he gets over it like eli did tho.


And Jonezy i like your new avi broski
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctp2124 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Despite the gaudy statistics, 3 TDs-370 yards, this was a very poorly played game by Sam Bradford. He made throws after they went to soft defenses, and during what was essentially garbage time. He gave the game away in the first half for christ's sake.


Except they didn't go to soft defense. They were blitzing him and running the same C2 shell until the end. There was 1 drive where they didn't blitz which was the first TD drive of the second half.

Quote:
I've been saying it all year, and todays game provided a good example; Bradford is terrible when presented with even minimal pressure. He goes down to easy, doesn't keep his eyes down field, and struggles to avoid the first rusher. As long as this continues to be the case he is going to struggle.


Yea, typically when a QB is getting pressured often and quickly, they play poorly. Even the great ones.

As for him going down easy, he broke Kevin Williams's arm tackle to avoid a sack and lengthened a couple plays by climbing in the pocket and scrambling.

And most pocket passer struggle to avoid rushers.

Quote:
It is time to bring in competition for Sam, he has been way to comfortable in his job security. I'd like to see a mid-round pick (2-4) used on a QB with upside.


I don't agree. Unless there's tremendous value like Kirk Cousins was, it would be a colossal mistake. We have far too many needs to use an important pick 2nd to 4th round pick on a QB. I'd be fine with a late round pick being used on a QB.


I strongly disagree that "most pocket passers struggle to avoid rushers." Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, the other Manning (Eli), Cutler, Romo, Rivers, ect. all know how to avoid initial pressure.

If you are referring to "non-mobile" QBs having trouble avoiding the rush, then yeah, duh, they struggle. You don't have to be fast to elude pressure while in the pocket, you just have to have balls, an area I see Sam lacking in. I would say "time will tell", but it kind of already has. If he can't learn to avoid the rush, this offense will never be better than mediocre under his direction.

Look man, I think Bradford has the physical skills to turn around his play, but we are two games away from the conclusion of the season and I have not noticed any measurable improvement in his game.


Couldn't disagree with you more, his toughness shouldn't be questioned.


Actually i agree sam does not have big cojones. What he does have is a great competitive spirit, which is not to be confused with toughness. He does what is necessary to make plays at times(like take big hits by not sliding), but you can see him grimacing like a little girl half of the time.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim199009 wrote:
Im riding with Jrs on this one, sam crumbles like a little byotch at first sight of a free rusher, occasionally yesterday i did see escape a couple times. But he panics way too early alot of the times. He reminds me alot of eli in his earlier days, hopefully he gets over it like eli did tho.


And Jonezy i like your new avi broski


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000107166/Raiders-defense-sack-6-yd-loss

In fact, I saw him do the same thing earlier in that game when Lamarr Houston came at him as a free rusher and he realized he had no throw.

But Peyton Manning is just a colossal byotch. I mean, it's definitely not smart for a QB who knows he doesn't have the running ability to escape to just get to the ground and take the sack rather than get lit up and risk a fumble.

Nah.

But hey, you can't be a great QB if you do that...right?
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim199009 wrote:


Actually i agree sam does not have big cojones. What he does have is a great competitive spirit, which is not to be confused with toughness. He does what is necessary to make plays at times(like take big hits by not sliding), but you can see him grimacing like a little girl half of the time.


You're completely full of it. The same guy who has been blown up time after time this year in the pocket and out? The same guy who played on a badly injured ankle in 2011?

Grimacing like a "little girl"? Biggest bunch of bullshiot I've ever heard. Guy takes hard shots fighting for a first down multiple times this year instead of sliding short and you have the gall to criticize him for it...better yet imply he has the toughness of a little girl? Seriously?
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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kgarrett12486


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm seriously shocked at some of these comments about his toughness among other names...

It's borderline comical looking back at these....
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
tim199009 wrote:


Actually i agree sam does not have big cojones. What he does have is a great competitive spirit, which is not to be confused with toughness. He does what is necessary to make plays at times(like take big hits by not sliding), but you can see him grimacing like a little girl half of the time.


You're completely full of it. The same guy who has been blown up time after time this year in the pocket and out? The same guy who played on a badly injured ankle in 2011?

Grimacing like a "little girl"? Biggest bunch of bullshiot I've ever heard. Guy takes hard shots fighting for a first down multiple times this year instead of sliding short and you have the gall to criticize him for it...better yet imply he has the toughness of a little girl? Seriously?


hey im just saying its the nfl, your acting like sam bradford is the only quarterback in the league who takes hits. I never criticized him for trying to gain a first down thats why i clearly called it "his competitive spirit", i like that quality in him. Now when it comes to my actually definition of "toughness", guys like brett favre comes to mind. Im just calling it like i see, sorry if our ideologies dont match up


Last edited by tim199009 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you guys are grossly misunderstanding my comments, in no way shape of form am i not saying bradford is not competitive, the kid does have heart. But im going to take a page out of political debates here and discuss the "rhetoric" you guys are using. But simply put all im saying is the word "toughness" does not describe sam bradford, however "competitive" does.
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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:


I guess Romo can't be labeled a pocket passer, at least not a pure one.

Nine times out of ten, if there is pressure, Sam is either taking a sack or throwing an errant pass. When Amendola is around it helps, as he is clearly Sam's favorite outlet.

Not that I 100% agree with it, but here is an interesting article comparing Alex Smith and Bradford. I've been searching for QB stats against the blitz in 2012 and have not found any, so if anyone wants to help with that search, it would be great;

http://www.ramsherd.com/2012-articles/season/a-passing-comparison-sam-bradford-and-alex-smith.html


The stats and the game film doesn't back this.


"Film", lol. I've watched every game, some of them twice, and what I watch every sunday backs it up. I asked for a link to the stats, do you have any that suggest Bradford performs well against the blitz or when hurried? I could only find numbers from his rookie year.
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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgarrett12486 wrote:
I'm seriously shocked at some of these comments about his toughness among other names...

It's borderline comical looking back at these....


I think Sam hears footsteps, but don't lump me in with the people calling him soft.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:


I guess Romo can't be labeled a pocket passer, at least not a pure one.

Nine times out of ten, if there is pressure, Sam is either taking a sack or throwing an errant pass. When Amendola is around it helps, as he is clearly Sam's favorite outlet.

Not that I 100% agree with it, but here is an interesting article comparing Alex Smith and Bradford. I've been searching for QB stats against the blitz in 2012 and have not found any, so if anyone wants to help with that search, it would be great;

http://www.ramsherd.com/2012-articles/season/a-passing-comparison-sam-bradford-and-alex-smith.html


The stats and the game film doesn't back this.


"Film", lol. I've watched every game, some of them twice, and what I watch every sunday backs it up. I asked for a link to the stats, do you have any that suggest Bradford performs well against the blitz or when hurried? I could only find numbers from his rookie year.


You're saying 9 times out of 10 that if Bradford is pressured, he throws an errant pass or gets sacked. That's 90% of the time. You think that's going to hold up statistically?

Look, I'm not saying the kid is amazing under pressure. I'm saying you're being hyperbolic. He can certainly get better in the face of pressure but he has been improving this year both at throwing under pressure and with feeling/avoiding pressure.

I'll get you the stats in a little while. Gotta go when I finish this post.

tim199009 wrote:


hey im just saying its the nfl, your acting like sam bradford is the only quarterback in the league who takes hits. I never criticized him for trying to gain a first down thats why i clearly called it "his competitive spirit", i like that quality in him. Now when it comes to my actually definition of "toughness", guys like brett favre comes to mind. Im just calling it like i see, sorry if our ideologies dont match up


No, I'm acting like he gets hit more than the vast majority of QBs in the league and yet continues to take the beating. I'm acting like the guy played and scrambled on a badly sprained ankle out there.

tim199009 wrote:
And you guys are grossly misunderstanding my comments, in no way shape of form am i not saying bradford is not competitive, the kid does have heart. But im going to take a page out of political debates here and discuss the "rhetoric" you guys are using. But simply put all im saying is the word "toughness" does not describe sam bradford, however "competitive" does.


Rhetoric is the perfect word here. I think most people would disagree if you just questioned Bradford's toughness...but you went a step further in your rhetoric. You compared him to a little girl.

I think that says a lot here.
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Harper41 wrote:
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Rhetoric is the perfect word here. I think most people would disagree if you just questioned Bradford's toughness...but you went a step further in your rhetoric. You compared him to a little girl.

I think that says a lot here.


Yes while we are on the topic of rhetoric, lets get into another form of literary terms that quite often gets confused over the internet: exaggeration

But anyways regarding Sam Bradfords toughness all im saying is from a physical standpoint he is not. A tough quarterback strikes fear into the opponent physically, is very aggressive getting out of the pocket, and doesn’t go down at the first touch of a defender .Ben Rothlesburger is an example of a tough qb, dragging defenders for first downs things like that. Just because a quarterback takes a lot of hits doesn’t make him "tough" by that logic David Carr is the toughest quarterback of all time.
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ctp2124


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim199009 wrote:
Quote:

Rhetoric is the perfect word here. I think most people would disagree if you just questioned Bradford's toughness...but you went a step further in your rhetoric. You compared him to a little girl.

I think that says a lot here.


Yes while we are on the topic of rhetoric, lets get into another form of literary terms that quite often gets confused over the internet: exaggeration

But anyways regarding Sam Bradfords toughness all im saying is from a physical standpoint he is not. A tough quarterback strikes fear into the opponent physically, is very aggressive getting out of the pocket, and doesn’t go down at the first touch of a defender .Ben Rothlesburger is an example of a tough qb, dragging defenders for first downs things like that. Just because a quarterback takes a lot of hits doesn’t make him "tough" by that logic David Carr is the toughest quarterback of all time.


Bradford cannot physically drag opponents to get a first down. Neither can Eli Manning, and no one questions his toughness.
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctp2124 wrote:
tim199009 wrote:
Quote:

Rhetoric is the perfect word here. I think most people would disagree if you just questioned Bradford's toughness...but you went a step further in your rhetoric. You compared him to a little girl.

I think that says a lot here.


Yes while we are on the topic of rhetoric, lets get into another form of literary terms that quite often gets confused over the internet: exaggeration

But anyways regarding Sam Bradfords toughness all im saying is from a physical standpoint he is not. A tough quarterback strikes fear into the opponent physically, is very aggressive getting out of the pocket, and doesn’t go down at the first touch of a defender .Ben Rothlesburger is an example of a tough qb, dragging defenders for first downs things like that. Just because a quarterback takes a lot of hits doesn’t make him "tough" by that logic David Carr is the toughest quarterback of all time.


Bradford cannot physically drag opponents to get a first down. Neither can Eli Manning, and no one questions his toughness.


touche
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