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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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Location: Next to Waldo
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: The Sam Bradford Thread |
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It seems there has consistently been debate in Game time forums, so I thought a centralized place where the conversation can continue might be helpful.
I also had a couple of thoughts about what is going on with Bradford that I hadn't heard expressed.
Sam Bradford seems to be much more comfortable with downfield throws when he is in the shotgun. I've looked for statistics and have come up empty. If anyone can find the percentage of Bradford's 20 yard+ completions that show shotgun/under center splits, please share with the class. This is a problem for this Rams offense, being that our offensive line during Bradford's career has been terrible.
I point this out because coming out of Oklahoma, the few questions about Bradford were rather he could succeed behind a line that wasn't stellar (recall that Sooner line was one of the best ever seen in CFB history), and whether he could grasp an offense that was ran from under center.
I think those criticisms of him have by now become validated.
I believe that Sam can be our starting QB, but he needs to decide whether he is aggressive down field passer, or if he is a ball protection first QB.
Lunatic is right, Bradford will more than likely be a Ram for at least two more years. I believe that it is time to invest mid round pick in a high upside QB to challenge Sam. He's never had to play for his job, and it is time.
What are your thoughts on Sam's struggles?
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31291
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well, since we're confining this to a thread:
| jrry32 wrote: | | DEE RAWL wrote: | While we are on the topic of young franchise quarterbacks and sophmore slumps (Bradford definitely had his), what if Bradford isnt the answer at QB?
Im not saying he is or isnt, I would love more than anything if he is and while he can make ALL the throws... What is the timeframe for cutting ties or not? He has been through alot, bad OL, multiple O Coordinators and an average receiving core. With all that said he just SEEMS to lack whatever it is that is needed to make that last step. And of course his contact is worth a fortune.
Like I said, I am not rooting against him in any way just trying to think about the possibility. So what do you guys think? And if he isnt the answer... How much longer do they keep paying him? |
I think the question is, what were Bradford's expectations come into this year?
What did you expect from him? If you consider his play after the bye week and think he'll continue along about the same consistent path then his numbers at the end of the season will look something like:
305/516
59.1%
3540 yards
6.9 YPA
24 passing TDs
12 interceptions
85.7 QB Rating
Are those numbers above or below your expectations of him prior to the season?
| Flatlyner wrote: | | Now, everyone has every excuse in the book to suggest Bradford has had a really raw deal, and, in truth, perhaps he has. Just can't help but see Luck and RG3 doing better as rookies then our 3rd year 1st overall pick QB and they have similar levels of talent as we have had IMO. |
Every time I read this, this burns me up. Yes, RGIII is doing better but he's doing better than a large number of QBs. But Luck? Come on. That's bull. Bradford's QBR is over 7 points higher, he's thrown for more TDs and less ints. If you want to include Luck's rushing TDs, he has 18 TDs to 18 TOs while Bradford had 15 TDs to 10 TOs.
Luck isn't outplaying Bradford. |
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S-jax39
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Sam right now is inconsistent. He can look amazing or he can look terrible. I think its only fair to blame some of his struggles on his supporting cast. I've been saying it since he was drafted, you just dont win with this cast. No one besides amendola gets consistent separation. Half the time Sam is running for his life. When hes not and things are looking like they are starting to come together, theres a false start in the redzone EVERYTIME.
Look at the elite Qbs in the league. What do the have in common? Elite weapons. Do they make some guys look better then they are? Of course, but most of these guys either have an elite go to guy, a collection of good weapons or both. Sam has below average wrs and a below average line. Im sorry, but he isnt going to be consistent with that type of supporting cast.
I say we go all out next offseason and surround Bradford with talent. That way we can see what he really is and what he can really do. His problem is his consistency imo, and when you have an inconsistent supporting cast what do you expect?
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ctp2124
Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 1248
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I think Bradford is the answer and will be considered a top 10 QB this time next year. His deep ball has been on point this year.
He needs to make better and quicker decisions but he has been improving on this throughout the year. I think he will continue to improve as he becomes more comfortable with the offense/personnel.
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Brodie
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Bradford to me reminds me a lot of Eli. Not as how he throws the ball or their physical make up but struggling early in games but turning it on later. I think he can and will still be a great QB in this league. I hope we get him a great #1 WR finally
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ajhicks11
Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 428
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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This can certainly be seen as a reach, but how much do those penalties fall on Sam and just the Rams being young in general.
We can all certainly Sam has the talent and potential to be something in this league. But he, like everyone else, still looks really young and immature. The stupid redzone penalties are a perfect example of this. While this is the ultimate portrayal of the coach (which seems hard to believe). It seems like a veteran qb has the leadership that really limits these dumb penalties.
Sam has been inconsistent his entire career, but it is really hard to avoid seeing the ability the guy has.
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Wr80
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Either he's making Givens look good or Givens is giving him a threat but last game blew my mind. That kid is something special, he can run so fast and get separation on top of having good hands.
Edit: Now looking at his stats he's having an amazing year... [inappropriate/removed] stats. He's pulling down more TDs/yards than last year, granted on more game. If he throws for 250 or more yards per game and 1 TD a game he'll have more TDS/yards than his rookie year. I think this is gonna be his best year with a [inappropriate/removed] team. Disregarding wins/some ugly plays, this kid is a real QB. He has 2 less tds passing than RG3 and 1 less turnover. He might not be a rushing QB but we all know that RG3 won't be able to keep this up. He's getting beat up and that will wear him down. Luck is putting up tons of yards but that O line is amazing compared to ours. Not to mention he's thrown 13 picks so 4 more than Sam, and they have Reggie Wayne. I think with a good off season we can make a push at a being a .500 team next year. That's a huge upgrade from the normal season we are used to.
Last edited by Wr80 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NVRamsFan
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ajhicks11 wrote: | This can certainly be seen as a reach, but how much do those penalties fall on Sam and just the Rams being young in general.
We can all certainly Sam has the talent and potential to be something in this league. But he, like everyone else, still looks really young and immature. The stupid redzone penalties are a perfect example of this. While this is the ultimate portrayal of the coach (which seems hard to believe). It seems like a veteran qb has the leadership that really limits these dumb penalties.
Sam has been inconsistent his entire career, but it is really hard to avoid seeing the ability the guy has. |
Delay of game is certainly him, false starts you might be able to say he has some share of. The rest holdings and illegal formations are nothing to do with him most of the time, though holding could be if he's holding the ball too long.
Also he's half way thru his third year. That's not really considered a veteran. Yes he has been in the league three years but I don't expect a third year QB to be an elite veteran leader. Lets not forget there are 14 rookies and another 15 or so that weren't on the team last year. Two thirds of the roster is new to him.
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NVRamsFan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Wr80 wrote: | | Either he's making Givens look good or Givens is giving him a threat but last game blew my mind. That kid is something special, he can run so fast and get separation on top of having good hands. |
I think they're feeding off each other. No matter whether somebody likes Sam or not they all say his long ball is good. With Givens he finally has a speedster with talent and they're working great together. Sam discusses this in about every post game and weekly presser he does.
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Wr80
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| NVRamsFan wrote: | | Wr80 wrote: | | Either he's making Givens look good or Givens is giving him a threat but last game blew my mind. That kid is something special, he can run so fast and get separation on top of having good hands. |
I think they're feeding off each other. No matter whether somebody likes Sam or not they all say his long ball is good. With Givens he finally has a speedster with talent and they're working great together. Sam discusses this in about every post game and weekly presser he does. |
I love it, if Quick would show that enthusiasm and chemistry with Bradford I think he would get more reps, targets. I really want him to excel. |
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ramssuperbowl99
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Why are we debating this? Both the Rams fans and their front office don't really have a choice at this point.
He has to succeed.
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Jonezy
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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He is the present and future.
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Rams front 4 is going to be amazing next year |
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Flatlyner
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: |
| Flatlyner wrote: | | Now, everyone has every excuse in the book to suggest Bradford has had a really raw deal, and, in truth, perhaps he has. Just can't help but see Luck and RG3 doing better as rookies then our 3rd year 1st overall pick QB and they have similar levels of talent as we have had IMO. |
Every time I read this, this burns me up. Yes, RGIII is doing better but he's doing better than a large number of QBs. But Luck? Come on. That's bull. Bradford's QBR is over 7 points higher, he's thrown for more TDs and less ints. If you want to include Luck's rushing TDs, he has 18 TDs to 18 TOs while Bradford had 15 TDs to 10 TOs.
Luck isn't outplaying Bradford. |
Given all that info, you can't possibly tell me that you would not trade Bradford for Luck today if it was offered. Bradford is in his 3rd year, Luck is a rookie. I would expect him to be better statistically, heck, he should be vastly better with 3 years under the belt. Not to mention he is likely leading the Colts to a playoff game, which, coming from last years horrible season is shocking to say the least.
its not only about stats and QB rating, its about wins
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jrry32
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Flatlyner wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: |
| Flatlyner wrote: | | Now, everyone has every excuse in the book to suggest Bradford has had a really raw deal, and, in truth, perhaps he has. Just can't help but see Luck and RG3 doing better as rookies then our 3rd year 1st overall pick QB and they have similar levels of talent as we have had IMO. |
Every time I read this, this burns me up. Yes, RGIII is doing better but he's doing better than a large number of QBs. But Luck? Come on. That's bull. Bradford's QBR is over 7 points higher, he's thrown for more TDs and less ints. If you want to include Luck's rushing TDs, he has 18 TDs to 18 TOs while Bradford had 15 TDs to 10 TOs.
Luck isn't outplaying Bradford. |
Given all that info, you can't possibly tell me that you would not trade Bradford for Luck today if it was offered. Bradford is in his 3rd year, Luck is a rookie. I would expect him to be better statistically, heck, he should be vastly better with 3 years under the belt. Not to mention he is likely leading the Colts to a playoff game, which, coming from last years horrible season is shocking to say the least.
its not only about stats and QB rating, its about wins |
Oh, it's about wins now is it? Yea because a team statistic is the proof that Luck is outplaying Bradford. Spare me this garbage.
You do realize the Colts were a 10 win team in 2010 and a 14 win team in 2009 that went to the Super Bowl, right? But they had a terrible year in 2011, got the #1 pick and have rebounded but that's all on Luck despite him not performing better than Bradford is.
Hint: Bradford went to a team who had one of if not the worst 3 year stretch of all time. Luck went to a team 1 year removed from the playoffs and 2 years removed from playing in the Super Bowl.
Now why might Luck's team have a winning record? You know, other than the fact he's faced a weaker schedule.
And whether or not I'd trade Bradford for Luck is irrelevant to YOUR claim that Luck is currently playing better than Bradford is which is complete and utter horsepoop.
Oh and by the way, you realize that Bradford had superior stats through his first 11 starts as a rookie than Luck has now except for yards and YPA, right?
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StLunatic88
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 7215
Location: How good is your Good?
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | 305/516
59.1%
3540 yards
6.9 YPA
24 passing TDs
12 interceptions
85.7 QB Rating |
2:1 TD to INT ratio is plenty good for me, 3500+ yards would put him in the top half last season, 24 TDs would put him in the Top 10, and 12 INTs would put him in the top half of the league as well.
Other than the Comp% what else are you asking for? Yes, I would also like to see the YPA up closer to 8, but when your only reliable target is a 5'11" guy with Injury problems (albeit a real warrior) this is about what you can ask for. Especially when you had 1 starter on the OL that anyone trusts for most of the season thus far.
Over an entire season, If Sam had the same actual Yards Per Completion (11.6) and he could bump his Comp% up to 65% (which would be top 5 in the NFL for 2011) he would have a YPA of 7.54 and would throw for almost 3900 yards, which would put his QB Rating around 93 or so.
This conversation is still ridiculous |
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