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OL Film Breakdown: Carimi at OG
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Nads786


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 4156
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

impressive analysis, does anyone think Gabe will be benched regardless this week in favor of Chris Spencer? I liked what Edwin did last year at LG I think he would b an adequate player for us.

If Gabe could b an elite guard for us I would take it, we can't have 2 First round OL busts.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
impressive analysis, does anyone think Gabe will be benched regardless this week in favor of Chris Spencer? I liked what Edwin did last year at LG I think he would b an adequate player for us.

If Gabe could b an elite guard for us I would take it, we can't have 2 First round OL busts.


I don't know of he starts but he will get a ton of reps.

I would like to see him and Edwin start since I think Spencer is brutal.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/16676620-606/an-nfl-scouts-take-on-bears-erratic-offensive-line.html

Scouts view on some of our Olinemen...

Quote:
“He’s going to be all right,” the scout said of Carimi, who was the Bears first-round draft choice in 2011 before missing his rookie season with a dislocated kneecap. “He’ll re-establish himself. He wasn’t just a guy who got dominated. He had some breakdowns. He also had some very good plays.

“He got blamed a lot for the game in San Francisco but the guy playing on the other side [J’Marcus Webb] was equally guilty at times. I wouldn’t give up on Carimi. He’s a guy who will play there a long time.”

This scout has never been as down on left tackle J’Marcus Webb as the majority of Bears fans have been, and often with good reason. He sees a tackle that absorbs blows instead of inflicting them but insists that can be an effective approach with the proper footwork and technique.

He was especially impressed with how Webb responded to perhaps his worst effort of the season in San Francisco with one of his best against the Vikings.

“He took Jared Allen and pretty much won that battle across the board,” he said. “I don’t think he’s a quick-twitch athlete but he knows who he is and what he needs to do.”

When he says Jonathan Scott, who replaced Carimi at right tackle against the Vikings, is a lot like Webb, he doesn’t mean it as an insult. He knows all about the veteran Scott and was impressed by how he played against Vikings end Brian Robison, who was held to two tackles.

He agrees with Tice that Lance Louis was by far the Bears best offensive lineman this season but that doesn’t mean he believes the unit will derail the Bears after Louis was lost for the season with a torn ACL, which may force Carimi to move inside to guard.

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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/16676620-606/an-nfl-scouts-take-on-bears-erratic-offensive-line.html

Scouts view on some of our Olinemen...

Quote:
“He’s going to be all right,” the scout said of Carimi, who was the Bears first-round draft choice in 2011 before missing his rookie season with a dislocated kneecap. “He’ll re-establish himself. He wasn’t just a guy who got dominated. He had some breakdowns. He also had some very good plays.

“He got blamed a lot for the game in San Francisco but the guy playing on the other side [J’Marcus Webb] was equally guilty at times. I wouldn’t give up on Carimi. He’s a guy who will play there a long time.”

This scout has never been as down on left tackle J’Marcus Webb as the majority of Bears fans have been, and often with good reason. He sees a tackle that absorbs blows instead of inflicting them but insists that can be an effective approach with the proper footwork and technique.

He was especially impressed with how Webb responded to perhaps his worst effort of the season in San Francisco with one of his best against the Vikings.

“He took Jared Allen and pretty much won that battle across the board,” he said. “I don’t think he’s a quick-twitch athlete but he knows who he is and what he needs to do.”

When he says Jonathan Scott, who replaced Carimi at right tackle against the Vikings, is a lot like Webb, he doesn’t mean it as an insult. He knows all about the veteran Scott and was impressed by how he played against Vikings end Brian Robison, who was held to two tackles.

He agrees with Tice that Lance Louis was by far the Bears best offensive lineman this season but that doesn’t mean he believes the unit will derail the Bears after Louis was lost for the season with a torn ACL, which may force Carimi to move inside to guard.


Webb has improved to the point where I think he might be in the top 15 LTs in the NFL.

In no order

Solder
Ferguson
Long
Roos
Brown
Albert
Clady
Whitworth
Thomas
T. Williams
Kalil
Okung
Staley
Bushrod
Gross

These are the guys that I think are better than Webb, but some of them are close if we put the hatorade down for a minute.

He may never be awesome but at this point he has played 11 games and 2 of them have been bad.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
You seem to believe that one makes changes when there is no evidence the change will be positive. It isn't as if practice nowadays shows anything about comparative abilities or even the ability to play in a game. They do very little which would do that.

Players have to have a chance to play especially when you invest heavily in them. You are extremely optimistic if you believe we have answered our questions because of these forced moves. If only.

But this attitude is typical of the impatience of fans.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/16676620-606/an-nfl-scouts-take-on-bears-erratic-offensive-line.html

Scouts view on some of our Olinemen...

Quote:
“He’s going to be all right,” the scout said of Carimi, who was the Bears first-round draft choice in 2011 before missing his rookie season with a dislocated kneecap. “He’ll re-establish himself. He wasn’t just a guy who got dominated. He had some breakdowns. He also had some very good plays.

“He got blamed a lot for the game in San Francisco but the guy playing on the other side [J’Marcus Webb] was equally guilty at times. I wouldn’t give up on Carimi. He’s a guy who will play there a long time.”

This scout has never been as down on left tackle J’Marcus Webb as the majority of Bears fans have been, and often with good reason. He sees a tackle that absorbs blows instead of inflicting them but insists that can be an effective approach with the proper footwork and technique.

He was especially impressed with how Webb responded to perhaps his worst effort of the season in San Francisco with one of his best against the Vikings.

“He took Jared Allen and pretty much won that battle across the board,” he said. “I don’t think he’s a quick-twitch athlete but he knows who he is and what he needs to do.”

When he says Jonathan Scott, who replaced Carimi at right tackle against the Vikings, is a lot like Webb, he doesn’t mean it as an insult. He knows all about the veteran Scott and was impressed by how he played against Vikings end Brian Robison, who was held to two tackles.

He agrees with Tice that Lance Louis was by far the Bears best offensive lineman this season but that doesn’t mean he believes the unit will derail the Bears after Louis was lost for the season with a torn ACL, which may force Carimi to move inside to guard.
Some people live to criticize, others look to see what is really happening. We still need to add high picks and/or FAs on the line but I like our core.

Now it is a matter of getting Webb to play consistently and getting more experience for Carimi.
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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
You seem to believe that one makes changes when there is no evidence the change will be positive. It isn't as if practice nowadays shows anything about comparative abilities or even the ability to play in a game. They do very little which would do that.

Players have to have a chance to play especially when you invest heavily in them. You are extremely optimistic if you believe we have answered our questions because of these forced moves. If only.

But this attitude is typical of the impatience of fans.
I literally do not know what you are saying in this post.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
You seem to believe that one makes changes when there is no evidence the change will be positive. It isn't as if practice nowadays shows anything about comparative abilities or even the ability to play in a game. They do very little which would do that.

Players have to have a chance to play especially when you invest heavily in them. You are extremely optimistic if you believe we have answered our questions because of these forced moves. If only.

But this attitude is typical of the impatience of fans.
I literally do not know what you are saying in this post.
It seems as though people here often believe that their whims should control the decisions of the Bears. I have often taken an inordinate interest in one player or the other for one reason or another when their talent does not justify it and stick with them longer than justified. Mostly, though, posters here take the opposite tack and want to get rid of people without a suitable trial.

It is not as easy as people think to develop players and they are far too prone to go the Queen of Hearts way and "off with their heads" when not playing too well. They turn on players and start to hate them. Look at what is happening with K. Davis. He may be no good and hurt the team even but that is not what he wants. It isn't always a player's fault that they are no good, either.

In reality teams are desperate to find linemen and keep them together long enough to be good. Our linemen are a good core to build on and Carimi will play an important role in the development of a good line. He has to be given time.
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bearsaddict


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are in denial about how truly bad he has been if you think he should be playing RT. Again, it is one thing when he is not very good, it is a whole different ballgame when he is a horrendous turnstile. You can't get your qb killed with that crap. If he is bad enough you have to bench him. If you believe he can develop, then let it happen in practice, but sacrificing your qb in hopes that your right tackle will one day be competent is, once again, living in denial.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
You are in denial about how truly bad he has been if you think he should be playing RT. Again, it is one thing when he is not very good, it is a whole different ballgame when he is a horrendous turnstile. You can't get your qb killed with that crap. If he is bad enough you have to bench him. If you believe he can develop, then let it happen in practice, but sacrificing your qb in hopes that your right tackle will one day be competent is, once again, living in denial.
Denial? Heck, I have never even been to Egypt.

While I am no advocate of the coach's ability to evaluate talent you have to believe he has NO idea of what he is seeing for your point to be accurate.

If Smith sees someone better and won't use him then he has to go. If he does NOT see that someone is actually better than the alternative when he is then he also has to go.

You still labor under the idea that this is like replacing a part in a car. Plug it in and go. But building an OL is not like that at all. People will be left in place even when not playing well for several reasons. Long term is important as well as short term.
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ak06max


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 1241
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
You seem to believe that one makes changes when there is no evidence the change will be positive. It isn't as if practice nowadays shows anything about comparative abilities or even the ability to play in a game. They do very little which would do that.

Players have to have a chance to play especially when you invest heavily in them. You are extremely optimistic if you believe we have answered our questions because of these forced moves. If only.

But this attitude is typical of the impatience of fans.


Impatience of fans. Cutlers concussions are adding up bud. Risk another one with this death trap. Are you kidding me?
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
You seem to believe that one makes changes when there is no evidence the change will be positive. It isn't as if practice nowadays shows anything about comparative abilities or even the ability to play in a game. They do very little which would do that.

Players have to have a chance to play especially when you invest heavily in them. You are extremely optimistic if you believe we have answered our questions because of these forced moves. If only.

But this attitude is typical of the impatience of fans.


Impatience of fans. Cutlers concussions are adding up bud. Risk another one with this death trap. Are you kidding me?
Well bud I have been stating that we damn well better be looking for a young QB for that eventuality but that is a different issue. Media-driven fan impatience is mostly the basis for being hysterical about a new line being built not being perfect. With any new offense and line there are going to be problems.

Many here pointed out early on how the play calling and the refusal to use proper blocking schemes as well as Jay holding the ball too long were major contributors to our problems. Those points have been addressed and the line has played well three of the last four games even with big changes in lineup.

We have also been trying to address the line just haven't had much luck in the attempts not because of incompetence or indifference just sheer bad luck.

When we draft more new linemen they will encounter the same impatience that the old ones face. And the media will be sure to ignore the fact that there are few teams around with very good lines and that good offensive minded coaches make their offenses work in spite of the problems.
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ak06max


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
ak06max wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I think that if anything this speaks ill of Tice's ability in lineman evaluation. Carimi has been so very very bad, and Scott was clearly a lot better. Our Oline has continued to play poorly for way way too long, especially given the fact that when they are forced into personnel changes by injuries we see other guys or guys at other positions playing much better. That coupled with Tice's playcalling woes make me really question Tice on the staff period.
This says nothing about Tice's abilities or inabilities. EVERYONE was in favor of putting Carimi at RT (other than those wanting him at Left Tackle). Scott may not have been better in any way in practice for all you know. We needed to return our first rounder into the lineup for no other reason than to see what we have in him. Scott was just a body.

Isn't it INCREDIBLE how easy it is to second guess?
Uh, it says everything. He shouldn't be in the lineup PERIOD doing as badly as he was. I don't have to second guess. I have this entire season basically to see how bad he has been.
You seem to believe that one makes changes when there is no evidence the change will be positive. It isn't as if practice nowadays shows anything about comparative abilities or even the ability to play in a game. They do very little which would do that.

Players have to have a chance to play especially when you invest heavily in them. You are extremely optimistic if you believe we have answered our questions because of these forced moves. If only.

But this attitude is typical of the impatience of fans.


Impatience of fans. Cutlers concussions are adding up bud. Risk another one with this death trap. Are you kidding me?
Well bud I have been stating that we damn well better be looking for a young QB for that eventuality but that is a different issue. Media-driven fan impatience is mostly the basis for being hysterical about a new line being built not being perfect. With any new offense and line there are going to be problems.

Many here pointed out early on how the play calling and the refusal to use proper blocking schemes as well as Jay holding the ball too long were major contributors to our problems. Those points have been addressed and the line has played well three of the last four games even with big changes in lineup.

We have also been trying to address the line just haven't had much luck in the attempts not because of incompetence or indifference just sheer bad luck.

When we draft more new linemen they will encounter the same impatience that the old ones face. And the media will be sure to ignore the fact that there are few teams around with very good lines and that good offensive minded coaches make their offenses work in spite of the problems.


Why a new QB? Cutlers only on his 7th year, He at least has another 4-5 in the tank. We needed a new O line since 2006 that was pieced together with solid free agents not good but solid.

Trying is not drafting a LT with known back problems. Trying is not pushing a 7th rd pick to be your franchise LT. Emery already has proven he is working on the offense the Line is the next puzzle he has to figure out.

We have much more needs than developing a back up QB. Our whole D is on there last leg. We should be focused on replacements (Urlacher,Peanut,Peppers,Briggs) for them as opposed to a QB that still has many years of good football in him.

Jerry left Emery with a whole bunch of headache. Talent evaluation miss after miss is putting us in this situation . Trying shouldn't be brought up when it comes to this mess up front.
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