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Is Charles Clay finally coming around? And other TE remarks.
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Which TE trio is best for our offense?
Fasano/Clay/Egnew
27%
 27%  [ 3 ]
Clay/Egnew/Eifert
18%
 18%  [ 2 ]
Fasano/Clay/Eifert
27%
 27%  [ 3 ]
Other (specify)
27%
 27%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 11

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DOLFAN016


Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 650
Location: Central Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Is Charles Clay finally coming around? And other TE remarks. Reply with quote

I watched him pretty exclusively yesterday and definitely like what I've been seeing from him. He has the ability to come out of the backfield, line up at TE, or come out of the slot. Tannehill seems to be looking to spread the ball out a lot more now than at the beginning of the season when Hartline was getting a lot of looks. If Clay can emerge now and Egnew can come to grips with the playbook we may be in a better position moving forward. I honestly still wouldn't mind Eifert in the mid-late first round as I think he will help Tannehill's progression a lot more because we will finally have a reliable redzone target. A trio of Eifert, Fasano, and Clay would be an upgrade over what we have this year. On a sidenote, I was very impressed with a specific catch by Clay yesterday where the defender was in front of him and should've picked the pass off, but Clay kept his focus and made a great catch. I know it's only one game, but it at least shows progress. That's something that I want to see going from week to week from this team as a whole. We still have Egnew on the PS and I will give him the benefit of the doubt since he's still a rookie. Hopefully in year two, or even by the end of this season we can see a few steps from him in the right direction. Fasano is what he is...an excellent blocker and an average pass catcher. He will never be anything more than that unfortunately. He has the hands just not the athleticism that we need for our offense. I also believe that he's a FA in the offseason, so maybe that is why we are giving Clay some increased reps at this point to see what he can do. We need a consistent safety valve at TE no matter who it is. Hopefully we can find somebody soon, or maybe they're already on the roster.
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WaterBear56


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love Eifert but I would rather use our first on a receiver with both Clay and Egnew on the team.

Clay is being more involved and is producing well. Looks like the coaches finally figured out that he's a vertical threat, not a route runner.
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Deets


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big maybe. Very good game and the talent is there but we need to see this week in and week out. I still want to pursue Keller, I think we need two TEs and hopefully either Clay or Egnew will fill the other spot. I'm sick of Fasano.
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Clutch


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deets wrote:
Big maybe. Very good game and the talent is there but we need to see this week in and week out. I still want to pursue Keller, I think we need two TEs and hopefully either Clay or Egnew will fill the other spot. I'm sick of Fasano.


I'm sick of Fasano too, however, he does a great job with helping out the Oline. Not sure Keller gives us that. And really, I don't want a Jet when there are other options available.

I think our D goes from being above average to elite by fixing the offense. From what I have seen, when the Fins go into attack mode because the other team has become one dimensional, we can get pressure. When it is still a run or plass play, we seem to struggle. If we get a lead and know the other team has to pass, you can let the dogs out. And we have some guys that can get pressure.

Not saying to avoid the Pass Rush in FA or the draft, but this offense seems to be limited to about 24 points per game. Good, but when the Pats are averaging 35-40, well lets just say you won't be winning the division title anytime soon.
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PhinFan52


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a TE I have been keeping an eye on, and hope the Phins look at is Joseph Fauria from UCLA.. great size 6'7" 258.. Good blocker .. good hands.. in 2011 was ucla's leading receiver with 38 catches 481 yrds.. 6 td.. this year 39 catches.. 544 yrds.. 11 tds.. 13.9 ypc.. in 2010 he had only 3 catches but 2 tds... IMO we need a redzone target..
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TE is an unfinished position. It's a question mark.

But, WR & Guard are ahead of every other position of need this team has by a country mile. I'll be saying that until April. DE, TE & CB are positions I'd like to see more from but they are all temporarily filled with adequate players and are not directly effecting the team's inability to win games. Let me say that to preface this topic with the note that we're talking 2nd-, 3rd-, 4th and 5-th round picks here.

The lack of talent at WR is only made worse by the fact the position requires so much in this offense. We need at least 2 more guys who can contribute regularly in this offense, I think. TE is a position where we simply need someone with reliable hands, good size and appreciable speed. Egnew could be that player, but he's proven nothing yet.

Defensively, we are as good if not better than the majority of teams we'll face in this league. We are not elite (Play-Off caliber) yet but I'm not looking at this draft from a defensive perspective or settling for a LB, CB or even DE 1st overall simply under the guise that bringing talent to Miami is the right thing to do. That, I believe, is wrong.

No, if we insist on being general, then we must say the team needs offensive talent. Clay is definitely part of this team moving forward but I question his height, especially in the red zone. He has speed to beat LBs which is part of what we need but we still want a fast and athletic body at the position who has the size to be effective in the red zone.

The questions are whether Egnew will provide that? Well, with as many TEs as we have on this roster there's little doubt we need to continue to invest at the position.

I'm alright with continually adding to the position in the mid-rounds until we find someone who'll produce alongside Clay at a high level. New England isn't the only team with an outstanding TE tandem--Baltimore and San Fran also feature multiple TEs who regularly contribute.

The question I'll have for all the fast TEs is whether they have the size. The question I'll have for all the big TEs is whether they have the speed. A big body to compliment Clay is what we're after but we cannot buy a 1-dimensional guy just for the red zone. We need someone who'll contribute across the field but be useful in the red zone, not a red zone specialist.

I'm convinced there is no such thing in this league as a red zone specialist aside from the FB position. There is no great TE I've seen who only gets thrown at when on the goal-line. We're looking for a weapon at TE to cause match-up problems just like we are at WR.

We still need to understand we're looking for a complete player at TE to provide a weapon to Tannehill and to begin the process of actually putting on the field a variety of players in Miami who are difficult to match up with.

Right now, no one in Miami aside from Clay is a match-up problem defensively-speaking. This is why I consider it a lost cause to debate whether or not WR is our 1st round pick. It's the clear hole right now.

Clay is part of the solution at TE but he needs a companion. That piece will be a young, developing player in the mold of well...Egnew. Guys like Jimmy Graham and Aaron Hernandez represent the finished product but inevitably they begin as unproven guys who look like Egnew.

We'll pick someone in the mid-rounds I think and probably replace one of the 4th or 5th TEs we have on the roster. I'll say this much though, Egnew on the roster and with what Clay has shown, I'm not rushing to reach at the position. I put TE on the same level as DE & CB. If we can improve WR & Guard this season and add talent to 2 other spots (between DE, TE or CB) I'll be very satisfied.
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Clutch


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eifert/Ertz/Fauria would all work. Clay, to this point, has proven that he would be given a shot to complete for a starting positon, but thats it. One game doesn't change that. Now if he closes the season putting up similar numbers to yesterday, I may change my tune.
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patdt13


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keller/Clay/Egnew
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Russ57


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a world of difference between a Clay/Egnew and "Gronk". Some guys have speed, some have size, and a few have both.

Pats have proven that the right TE can be more of a match up problem than the right WR.

We need someone who can step in on day one and be an important part of the running game/blitz protection. He needs to have the speed to separate from LB'ers. He needs to have the size and strength to be impossible for the average DB to cover/tackle him.

Tyler Eifert is all of those things but one. He lacks the elite speed. If I could have him with my second round pick I'd jump all over it. The guy from UCLA and Stanford are worth a look but at that point I'll take a OT/OG/DE/CB/FS first. Now if we are talking 3rd/4th....I'm all in.

IMHO we need to come away from the draft with at least 3 new pass catching options. One of them could/should be a TE/RB/FB.

Given that we run to the right....and Jake hasn't been the same....and Pouncy is too good for a center....I could make some very radical moves on the OL.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
There is a world of difference between a Clay/Egnew and "Gronk". Some guys have speed, some have size, and a few have both.

Pats have proven that the right TE can be more of a match up problem than the right WR.

We need someone who can step in on day one and be an important part of the running game/blitz protection. He needs to have the speed to separate from LB'ers. He needs to have the size and strength to be impossible for the average DB to cover/tackle him.

Tyler Eifert is all of those things but one. He lacks the elite speed. If I could have him with my second round pick I'd jump all over it. The guy from UCLA and Stanford are worth a look but at that point I'll take a OT/OG/DE/CB/FS first. Now if we are talking 3rd/4th....I'm all in.

IMHO we need to come away from the draft with at least 3 new pass catching options. One of them could/should be a TE/RB/FB.

Given that we run to the right....and Jake hasn't been the same....and Pouncy is too good for a center....I could make some very radical moves on the OL.



When these questions arise, I try and think about what this offense is supposed to look like. I base my views on that picture, which, I'll admit does continually evolve to a certain degree. There are so many good offenses: (Patriots, Texans, Saints, Packers, Ravens, Falcons, Giants, etc) that I think we can find examples of TEs being the most important piece and TEs being an accessory. We can find possession style guys (Tony Gonzalez: bigger & slower) and we can find athletic-types: (Vernon Davis, Owen Daniels, Aaron Hernandez). Then there are those hybrid guys are just big and tough to cover: (Gronk, Graham, Gates).

Clay can definitely fit our offense and add speed but overall, he's a smaller guy who will not be the red zone weapon we're needing. We need another player to compliment and to further fill-out the position.

With any piece of this offense, we're going to want speed and hands. Those are my requirements for WRs. Being as though our WRs are already small (Hartline, Bess), it would make sense to try and get at least 1 guy who's a little bigger @ WR--think of Greg Jennings, kind of a do-it-all WR with hands, speed and size. Matthews could be this guy but again, like Egnew, he's a rookie who's basically not played at all this year.

If I can digress for a moment...

It does give me some comfort in knowing that between Egnew and Matthews, we might have exactly what we need already in development. It could explain why the coaches have seemed somewhat cavalier considering the apparent lack of receiving options this year.

Still, there is no clear reason why Egnew and Matthews haven't done something. We can write it off to them being rookies, but I will be disappointed if neither one proves to be worthwhile at all. They're body types are both direct matches for what we're looking for, especially Matthews.

What it also says to me is that Ireland drafted two very good bodies for this offense. Whether they turn out or not, it's clear that Ireland at least got the physical specifications correct with Philbin's input. We reached a little with Egnew but we also got a bargain on Matthews. Together, there's no debating that the measurables are exactly what we want. Judging either player will be done over time and will involve character, work ethic, discipline, etc. Hopefully, our coaches are able to mold these guys and get them going.

Egnew seems timid but success and work usually cure that. I would've labelled Hartline that way in his rookie year but now they guy has self-belief dripping from every word when he's interviewed. Egnew is a rookie and so I'm not buying that a humble kid can't become a little tougher.

Now, back to this team...

With TE, I see Clay as having the speed we want to create mismatches but not the size. If we bring in a TE, he must have size, however I agree 100% with Russ on the idea that he must also feature enough athleticism to consistently get open, which is the question I've had about Eifert. Our prospect doesn't have to be as fast as Hernandez, but he needs to be able to move fluidly and use his body the way Jimmy Graham seems to do so well even as a big guy.

The guy we want must do 3 things:

1.) Be able to run well and get open.
2.) Add size to the TE position.
3.) Provide Tannehill a reliable red zone option.
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PhinFan52


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhinFan52 wrote:
a TE I have been keeping an eye on, and hope the Phins look at is Joseph Fauria from UCLA.. great size 6'7" 258.. Good blocker .. good hands.. in 2011 was ucla's leading receiver with 38 catches 481 yrds.. 6 td.. this year 39 catches.. 544 yrds.. 11 tds.. 13.9 ypc.. in 2010 he had only 3 catches but 2 tds... IMO we need a redzone target..


this yr UCLA has a Fr QB.. he's not bad 3234 yrds 26 tds.. who does this Fr QB look to for a td ? well .... 11 have been to Fauria.. the TE.. he's avg 13.95 yards per catch.. and he's a 3rd projected pick... mis-match 6'7" 258 .. just saying.. check him out
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhinFan52 wrote:
PhinFan52 wrote:
a TE I have been keeping an eye on, and hope the Phins look at is Joseph Fauria from UCLA.. great size 6'7" 258.. Good blocker .. good hands.. in 2011 was ucla's leading receiver with 38 catches 481 yrds.. 6 td.. this year 39 catches.. 544 yrds.. 11 tds.. 13.9 ypc.. in 2010 he had only 3 catches but 2 tds... IMO we need a redzone target..


this yr UCLA has a Fr QB.. he's not bad 3234 yrds 26 tds.. who does this Fr QB look to for a td ? well .... 11 have been to Fauria.. the TE.. he's avg 13.95 yards per catch.. and he's a 3rd projected pick... mis-match 6'7" 258 .. just saying.. check him out


Will do...thanks for the heads up....that's about what I'd be comfortable with too. A good snag in the 3rd round would be perfect! Smile
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Miami2DaMax


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does everyone want Egnew? He's been pretty bad, even in practice.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little shocked that Egnew (unless some radical information has been released) is even seen as an options. Granted the kid could be developing, but from the glimpses we saw on hard knocks, what has been reported, and the fact the kid can't even smell the field is a little telling....

As far as the draft....why not take a TE...like others have said an elite TE can do wonders for an offense since they create great match-ups (which is becoming the key to the NFL passing game). Eifert at TE, Clay/Bush out of the backfield, Bess in the slot, Robert Woods and Hartline on the outside looks a lot more promising for Tannehill in year 2.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently heard he was practicing well but he needs to improve blocking but more importanly it was special teams he is having trouble with and for him to be active he has to play special teams. I have preached patience with him and actually flashbacked to some pre draft articles and college game tape just last week and im not so sure anymore damn near 60 percent of his catches were bubble scteens that the tigers ran. It would help to get him active for the last few games to give them a idea if he can be the guy but at the same time if he cant help us win now i guess is why they dont.
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