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BigMike1b
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: 626, CA
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | BigMike1b wrote: | | dawsonleery wrote: | | ch8878 wrote: | | Seeing the Raiders only have 4 draft picks hopefully they trade back pick up more picks, then make the pick count when they use it. |
Raiders have picks in rounds 1,3,4,6,7 and an extra 7 for the Louis Murphy trade so Raiders actually have 6 picks as of the right now, they could end up with a comp pick or two also. |
We still might have our 5th. I'm assuming we will find out what the conditions were for the Curry deal. I'm guessing his release was made in part to prevent the condition from being met. We'll see. |
5th is gone. It was a conditional 4th or 5th. The condition met made it it a 5th. It's gone. |
Do you have the link?
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8877
Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Whoever the best D Lineman is in the draft, we should be targeting him. I've seen Jarvis Jones mentioned a lot but I'm not familiar with many prospects this year.
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8877
Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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After watching a lot of youtube videos of different guys I think my #1 guy right now for us is Damontre Moore. Dude looks like an animal. Great in pass rushing and a great tackler with great pursuit to the ball carrier.
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IdigtheRaiders!
Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 1117
Location: Modesto
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: | | IdigtheRaiders! wrote: | | Not only that (which is true), but Brian Kelly built the entire defense around Te'o and they're 12-0 and are going the the BCS Championship game because of it. Manti Te'o is the kind of player you build a defense around, and that's why I'm hoping Reggie trades back to the 10-15 pick range to get him. It'll give us an all-star MLB and some extra picks to boot to get him some defensive help. |
The entire defense is actually built around there amazing defensive line, but nice try with the hype.
Te'o isn't anything special athletically nor is he a great tackler, in fact he actually misses quiet a few tackles.
People seem to forget that he's playing behind the most dominant nose tackle and most dominant defensive end in the entire country.
He's going to be an average starting linebacker in the NFL. If we take him I'll be so disappointed. |
Nice try, but no. Have you seen his career stats? He racked up a combined 324 tackles his first three years prior to this season, 28.5 of those for loss and 7 of those being sacks. This guy was a beast before Stephon Tuitt, Louis Nix, and Prince Shembo were even playing on the team.
If you truly think he's nothing special athletically and not a great tackler, you really haven't been watching ND games (especially on the tackling part -- I mean, WOW). Can someone explain to me how racking up 133 tackles as a Sophomore, 128 tackles as a Junior, and 103 tackles (and 7 INTs) as a Senior is missing "quite a few tackles"???
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19066
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I think a lot of people sleep on Te'o. He's better than most are giving credit for.
On a defense that lacks any heart or soul and had to deal with Slowlando the anti-leader, this is your guy. He's an every down LB, tackling machine who has a innate leadership quality.
This kid will step in day 1, call the plays and lead a defense with authority they tried to get out of Slowlando for 3 seasons.
I would not bet against Te'o. He is a tireless worker. Studies QBs like the great LBs should. Understands concepts on defense and what teams are trying to do.
Drafting Te'o would be a step in the leadership and dedication direction. He's the type Reggie wants to build around and I would have no issue with the pick depending on how they approach FA for Dline and pass rusher.
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1709
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | I think a lot of people sleep on Te'o. He's better than most are giving credit for.
On a defense that lacks any heart or soul and had to deal with Slowlando the anti-leader, this is your guy. He's an every down LB, tackling machine who has a innate leadership quality.
This kid will step in day 1, call the plays and lead a defense with authority they tried to get out of Slowlando for 3 seasons.
I would not bet against Te'o. He is a tireless worker. Studies QBs like the great LBs should. Understands concepts on defense and what teams are trying to do.
Drafting Te'o would be a step in the leadership and dedication direction. He's the type Reggie wants to build around and I would have no issue with the pick depending on how they approach FA for Dline and pass rusher. |
Ironically many people said the same about McClain. Well not the emotional leader part. He reminds me of that line backer who payed for the chargers and the patriots. |
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TiberiusRising
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 5582
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Chali21 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | I think a lot of people sleep on Te'o. He's better than most are giving credit for.
On a defense that lacks any heart or soul and had to deal with Slowlando the anti-leader, this is your guy. He's an every down LB, tackling machine who has a innate leadership quality.
This kid will step in day 1, call the plays and lead a defense with authority they tried to get out of Slowlando for 3 seasons.
I would not bet against Te'o. He is a tireless worker. Studies QBs like the great LBs should. Understands concepts on defense and what teams are trying to do.
Drafting Te'o would be a step in the leadership and dedication direction. He's the type Reggie wants to build around and I would have no issue with the pick depending on how they approach FA for Dline and pass rusher. |
Ironically many people said the same about McClain. Well not the emotional leader part. He reminds me of that line backer who payed for the chargers and the patriots. |
I agree to the first part and now we are talking about drafting another guy at a higher position. Now with that said I wouldnt be mad if we drafted Te'o however I would still prefer to move back and maybe get a guy like Khaseem Greene in the second or even Shayne Skov, Arthur Brown, Michael Mauti. There are a few good players at that spot that can be had later on in the draft. |
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1709
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it true that Teo plays in the 3-4? If so does anyone think he can translate to the 4-3? Does he have the speed and tackling ability? |
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Bo_Spice
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 7076
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| IdigtheRaiders! wrote: | Nice try, but no. Have you seen his career stats? He racked up a combined 324 tackles his first three years prior to this season, 28.5 of those for loss and 7 of those being sacks. This guy was a beast before Stephon Tuitt, Louis Nix, and Prince Shembo were even playing on the team.
If you truly think he's nothing special athletically and not a great tackler, you really haven't been watching ND games (especially on the tackling part -- I mean, WOW). Can someone explain to me how racking up 133 tackles as a Sophomore, 128 tackles as a Junior, and 103 tackles (and 7 INTs) as a Senior is missing "quite a few tackles"??? |
You're basing this all off of numbers though, try watching some game film and then get back to me.
Watch Notre Dame this season and you'll see that his great defensive line keeps him clean and he still misses tackles.
He's not special athletically and will need to play in a 3-4 to be good in the NFL, a scheme that we do not run. I'm not sure how his stats dictate what type of athlete he is, but that's all your basing your argument around. I'm not saying he's a bad athlete, he's just pretty average and that will be evident at the combine.
You can keep basing your argument completely off stats though. Watch the USC game just last week and you'll see him out of position countless times while USC's two small running backs were making their way up the field.
He's not a great prospect and he doesn't fit our scheme.
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holyghost
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5311
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | I think a lot of people sleep on Te'o. He's better than most are giving credit for.
On a defense that lacks any heart or soul and had to deal with Slowlando the anti-leader, this is your guy. He's an every down LB, tackling machine who has a innate leadership quality.
This kid will step in day 1, call the plays and lead a defense with authority they tried to get out of Slowlando for 3 seasons.
I would not bet against Te'o. He is a tireless worker. Studies QBs like the great LBs should. Understands concepts on defense and what teams are trying to do.
Drafting Te'o would be a step in the leadership and dedication direction. He's the type Reggie wants to build around and I would have no issue with the pick depending on how they approach FA for Dline and pass rusher. |
All the same stuff we heard Rolando was before he was drafted. Not a knock against Te'o, just a knock against all this college hype and talk.
Let the scouts do their job, and I can only hope for my own reasons the Raiders don't draft a MLB 1st round unless the guy is actually going to be a special impact player in the NFL, not college. A side note - to be a special player in the NFL you have to be better than all the other good pro players. You have to be better than most which means whipping all the great college players (who populate the NFL) 50 times out of 60 plays..
There's a difference between making the pros, and topping the pros. Pro Bowlers get there (or those in general at the top of the game) by being better than the other 60 or 80 schlubs in the NFL at their position. I don't wanna draft #30 at his position, or #15, I wanna draft #2 or #4, or #1 of course. The problem with drafting the average starter, #15 at his position, is that every other week of the year you're playing against an opponent who is starting someone better.
Can Te'o be as good as Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis? Can he be as good as Beason once was, and so on? If he's not in their league, what are we getting? Another average guy ready to be replaced? If that's the case why bother. |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4580
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| IdigtheRaiders! wrote: | | If you truly think he's nothing special athletically and not a great tackler, you really haven't been watching ND games (especially on the tackling part -- I mean, WOW). Can someone explain to me how racking up 133 tackles as a Sophomore, 128 tackles as a Junior, and 103 tackles (and 7 INTs) as a Senior is missing "quite a few tackles"??? |
Because those are just the number of tackles he made... Tyvon Branch has 3 100+ tackle seasons as a safety (including 124 in 2010), but he still missed plenty of tackles. Tackles totals are not a judge of any player's tackling ability. MLB, by nature of the position, are going to get the most ball-carriers near them, and therefore typically get the most tackles.
As for the athletic part, the guy is strong, but lacks sideline-to-sideline speed. What would you consider athleticism? Quickness, strength, agility, leaping ability, flexability, balance and speed? Speed isnt everything, but if a LB isnt fast, I wouldnt consider them overly athletic. While all those attributes are important, the elite MLBs usually have the speed to roam the field.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
Last edited by ZoomWaffle on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nodisrespect
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2914
Location: in the present
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| TiberiusRising wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | I think a lot of people sleep on Te'o. He's better than most are giving credit for.
On a defense that lacks any heart or soul and had to deal with Slowlando the anti-leader, this is your guy. He's an every down LB, tackling machine who has a innate leadership quality.
This kid will step in day 1, call the plays and lead a defense with authority they tried to get out of Slowlando for 3 seasons.
I would not bet against Te'o. He is a tireless worker. Studies QBs like the great LBs should. Understands concepts on defense and what teams are trying to do.
Drafting Te'o would be a step in the leadership and dedication direction. He's the type Reggie wants to build around and I would have no issue with the pick depending on how they approach FA for Dline and pass rusher. |
Ironically many people said the same about McClain. Well not the emotional leader part. He reminds me of that line backer who payed for the chargers and the patriots. |
I agree to the first part and now we are talking about drafting another guy at a higher position. Now with that said I wouldnt be mad if we drafted Te'o however I would still prefer to move back and maybe get a guy like Khaseem Greene in the second or even Shayne Skov, Arthur Brown, Michael Mauti. There are a few good players at that spot that can be had later on in the draft. |
I agree, i wouldn't be mad about the pick, but i like Arthur Brown almost just as much, and even Skov is a player to look at. I don't think Te'O will be clearly better than those guys on the next level. |
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Bo_Spice
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 7076
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | IdigtheRaiders! wrote: | | If you truly think he's nothing special athletically and not a great tackler, you really haven't been watching ND games (especially on the tackling part -- I mean, WOW). Can someone explain to me how racking up 133 tackles as a Sophomore, 128 tackles as a Junior, and 103 tackles (and 7 INTs) as a Senior is missing "quite a few tackles"??? |
Because those are just the number of tackles he made... Tyvon Branch has 3 100+ tackle seasons as a safety (including 124 in 2010), but he still missed plenty of tackles. Tackles totals are not a judge of any player's tackling ability. MLB, by nature of the position, are going to get the most ball-carriers near them, and therefore typically get the most tackles.
As for the athletic part, the guy is strong, but lacks sideline-to-sideline speed. What would you consider athleticism? Quickness, strength, agility, leaping ability, flexability, balance and speed? Speed isnt everything, but if a LB isnt fast, I wouldnt consider them overly athletic. While all those attributes are important, the elite MLBs usually have the speed to roam the field. |
At least someone doesn't let his great story and all of his hype blind them to who Te'o is as a prospect.
He doesn't have that big of a range as a linebacker and lacks the speed and agility to be a sideline to sideline linebacker in the NFL which essentially makes him a 3-4 ILB only.
If you watch the tape it's clear that his great defensive line makes him look better than he actually is and he still misses quite a few tackles and gets out of position. I just find it funny that people ignore the fact he has the best nose tackle and strong side defensive end playing in college football playing in front of him.
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Burgesskills
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You're basing this all off of numbers though, try watching some game film and then get back to me.
Watch Notre Dame this season and you'll see that his great defensive line keeps him clean and he still misses tackles.
He's not special athletically and will need to play in a 3-4 to be good in the NFL, a scheme that we do not run. I'm not sure how his stats dictate what type of athlete he is, but that's all your basing your argument around. I'm not saying he's a bad athlete, he's just pretty average and that will be evident at the combine.
You can keep basing your argument completely off stats though. Watch the USC game just last week and you'll see him out of position countless times while USC's two small running backs were making their way up the field.
He's not a great prospect and he doesn't fit our scheme. |
Wow, I have a read it all now. I have been a ND fan since I was 7 and have watched Notre Dame every Saturday. I have seen Te’o and his tenacity, Not athletic? Are you kidding me? Some of you say things, just to say them. What’s funny though if we draft him, you’ll be the first to sing his praises when he dominates.
He has been the heart and soul of the defense since he’s been at South Bend. He is smart, he reads plays, takes correct angles, and is a great tackler. He has lateral quickness and is a great run stopper. Your claiming it’s the line?? Just more empty claims. Who do you think calls out the plays on defense and makes the reads? He does.
This year he’s been on a whole new lever, he cut weight and came in at great shape and has shown a whole new quickness. He is good against the run and pass. He has 7 interceptions because he could read the QB. The staff had confidence in him to cover Marqise Lee near the goal line against SC, the pass was overthrown, but Te’o was right with him. He’s probably not going to win the Heisman, but a middle linebacker to be in serious consideration is huge. He is fast and he leaves it all on the field, and like Palooka said, he is an emotional leader that defense will rally around.
He’s going to be a top ten pick, maybe top 5. McKenzie wants smart and dedicated players to build around I wouldn’t be surprised if he is a top target. I’d love for him, but I also like Moore a lot. I like Jones a lot, even though his health does scare me. Trading back to acquire picks sounds good too. |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4580
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: |
He doesn't have that big of a range as a linebacker and lacks the speed and agility to be a sideline to sideline linebacker in the NFL which essentially makes him a 3-4 ILB only.
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In the 3-4, you can get away with slower MLBs (Zach Thomas, for example), but in the 4-3 with fewer LBs, you need a guy who can get all over the place quickly, otheriwse his playmaking ability is going to be limited.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
Last edited by ZoomWaffle on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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