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Packerraymond
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 11816
Location: UW Oshkosh
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 Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Blink wrote: | How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.
We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.
Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.
And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment. |
What RB is going to instill fear from a defense when Aaron Rodgers is your QB????
This is what frustrates me so much about Packer fans and the running game. It's like game planning against the Heat to stop Chris Bosh. Bryce Brown is just the next example of another talented RB that can play in the NFL that was no where near a high draft pick. If you aren't getting Adrian Peterson, you don't take a RB in round 1.
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UpTheSeam85
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, this off-season is time we really look for a quality running back. And I agree with JCam ^^^^, Starks played exceptional during our super bowl run, right now we don't have a healthy running back worthy of starting. I'm tired of us bringing in guys who are off and on and not true starting material. Whether it be through FA or the draft, we need a fricking running back. |
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Blink
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 650
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Packerraymond wrote: | | Blink wrote: | How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.
We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.
Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.
And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment. |
What RB is going to instill fear from a defense when Aaron Rodgers is your QB????
This is what frustrates me so much about Packer fans and the running game. It's like game planning against the Heat to stop Chris Bosh. Bryce Brown is just the next example of another talented RB that can play in the NFL that was no where near a high draft pick. If you aren't getting Adrian Peterson, you don't take a RB in round 1. |
This entire post is laughable. Chris Bosh is a major contributor, a core piece of the team, where our RBs are insignificant. There's no comparison to be made.
No one has said anything about taking a RB in rnd 1 or needing AP, stop over reacting. There's nothing wrong with me expecting more than being dead last or close to it every single year.
What frustrates me about this damn forum is you can't be realistic. Everything is sunshine and roses, no one dares get any criticism. Heaven forbid I think management made a mistake. |
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UpTheSeam85
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Blink wrote: | | Packerraymond wrote: | | Blink wrote: | How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.
We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.
Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.
And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment. |
What RB is going to instill fear from a defense when Aaron Rodgers is your QB????
This is what frustrates me so much about Packer fans and the running game. It's like game planning against the Heat to stop Chris Bosh. Bryce Brown is just the next example of another talented RB that can play in the NFL that was no where near a high draft pick. If you aren't getting Adrian Peterson, you don't take a RB in round 1. |
This entire post is laughable. Chris Bosh is a major contributor, a core piece of the team, where our RBs are insignificant. There's no comparison to be made.
No one has said anything about taking a RB in rnd 1 or needing AP, stop over reacting. There's nothing wrong with me expecting more than being dead last or close to it every single year.
What frustrates me about this damn forum is you can't be realistic. Everything is sunshine and roses, no one dares get any criticism. Heaven forbid I think management made a mistake. |
Exactly, IIRC the Heat were down 2-3 to the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals last year and finally got Bosh back in game 6 and went on to not only win the series but the finals. While A-Rod may be our Lebron, we need a Bosh and in this case it seems like that would be a quality RB. |
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JCamGOPACKGO
Joined: 14 Jan 2012
Posts: 719
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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No need for a 1st round pick...that's why I mentioned rounds 2, 6, 7 and examples of good RBs who came from each. We don't have to pay a high price for our next RB. We just need to do a better job of recognizing talent at the position. To this point we have failed to consistently bring balance to the offense and maximize what Rodgers can do except for one year when we won it all. If we keep on with what we got and continue to sign high-mileage veterans and draft career back-ups, we will waste a lot of #12's prime years. The one recent year we had an effective rushing attack, we won the Super Bowl. What should we focus on this coming offseason, considering our current 3ypc committee? This isn't rocket science.
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55 yds/1TD Rushing-11 receptions/119 yds
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ugLymayNe
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 10740
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly if Ted goes and forces himself to take a player just because he plays a certain position - this team is doomed. Ted has to get back to taking the best player available, because honestly the only positions that have unmovable players are QB, ROLB, NT, LE. Every other freaking position can be upgraded in my book(I didn't put up WR because I think Jennings walks).
So this whole "Ted has to get us a great RB just because" doesn't make sense. We won the super bowl with a below average running back. What we did win it with was a smart FO that didn't go and concentrate on certain positions/sides of the ball....look at the last two drafts since winning the super bowl. The first, heavy on offense. Second? Heavy on defense. Ted has to get back to the days of getting good value where he can.
Really, I wouldn't mind it if we invested heavily into a real run game, changing the philosophy of the offense in a way if we ended up with a great player in the first round that fit that type of OL(think Iupati, DeCastro, Doug Martin, etc). If this happens I think we have to concentrate on the offensive line first and figure it out at RB later because that OL isn't getting it done in either phase of the game.
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ramonesfan
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 1389
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| JCamGOPACKGO wrote: | | No need for a 1st round pick...that's why I mentioned rounds 2, 6, 7 and examples of good RBs who came from each. We don't have to pay a high price for our next RB. We just need to do a better job of recognizing talent at the position. To this point we have failed to consistently bring balance to the offense and maximize what Rodgers can do except for one year when we won it all. If we keep on with what we got and continue to sign high-mileage veterans and draft career back-ups, we will waste a lot of #12's prime years. The one recent year we had an effective rushing attack, we won the Super Bowl. What should we focus on this coming offseason, considering our current 3ypc committee? This isn't rocket science. |
If the BPA is a RB, we take a running back. Running back is a less of a worry in my mind then a good center. Starks looked pretty good early on against the Giants, then they stopped consistently running the ball. Until we make an effort to consistently run the ball or compile a healthy, decent o-line, I don't think we should count out Starks or Green.
That being said, if there's a stud RB, C, or S available at pick 32 I would definitely jump at those opportunities.
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| Title Town USA wrote: | I doubt Ted gets any sleep tonight. He'll still be working the phones. Obviously nobody will be answering.
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Blink
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 650
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ugLymayNe wrote: | Honestly if Ted goes and forces himself to take a player just because he plays a certain position - this team is doomed. Ted has to get back to taking the best player available, because honestly the only positions that have unmovable players are QB, ROLB, NT, LE. Every other freaking position can be upgraded in my book(I didn't put up WR because I think Jennings walks).
So this whole "Ted has to get us a great RB just because" doesn't make sense. We won the super bowl with a below average running back. What we did win it with was a smart FO that didn't go and concentrate on certain positions/sides of the ball....look at the last two drafts since winning the super bowl. The first, heavy on offense. Second? Heavy on defense. Ted has to get back to the days of getting good value where he can. |
Show me where anyone said we need a great RB. Please.
Why are you guys over reacting to some TT criticism? Why is it ok for a particular position to fail year after year?
I understand and accept that we will never be a good running team. I do not accept being completely ineffective to the point of wasting downs kind of bad.
Everyone says all we need is a serviceable running game. This is not even close to serviceable, why is that ok? |
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JCamGOPACKGO
Joined: 14 Jan 2012
Posts: 719
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think anyone is saying to force a pick at RB. At least for me what I've been saying is take the best RB available in the middle rounds if it provides value. But really - find someone for the front office that can recognize RB talent and identify that value guy.. And with how the league has switched to a more passing minded philosophy, I think there is a good chance the BPA will be a RB at some point in the draft when we are on the clock. And hey, if the pick doesn't make sense at any point...do it in free agency! Either way it needs to be handled. Obviously as Pack fans we want it to be done with value in mind.. But nobody is saying pick a RB in round 3 or earlier NO MATTER WHAT. I'm saying handle it somehow, no matter what.
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2012-13 ADOPT-A-PACKER: John Kuhn #30
55 yds/1TD Rushing-11 receptions/119 yds
Shout out to justo on the avatar!
Last edited by JCamGOPACKGO on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ugLymayNe
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 10740
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Blink wrote: | | Why are you guys over reacting to some TT criticism? Why is it ok for a particular position to fail year after year? |
I don't think it is really on TT to be honest. I blame him for mediocrity at center and not having a back up plan for Scott Wells, but is it his fault we lost two first round OL in the same year? Is it his fault neither James Starks or Alex Green improved? Starks looked like a player in 2010 and last year he wasn't bad. Where is the improvement(read: coaching) from year to year?
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Packerraymond
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 11816
Location: UW Oshkosh
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| UpTheSeam85 wrote: | | Blink wrote: | | Packerraymond wrote: | | Blink wrote: | How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.
We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.
Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.
And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment. |
What RB is going to instill fear from a defense when Aaron Rodgers is your QB????
This is what frustrates me so much about Packer fans and the running game. It's like game planning against the Heat to stop Chris Bosh. Bryce Brown is just the next example of another talented RB that can play in the NFL that was no where near a high draft pick. If you aren't getting Adrian Peterson, you don't take a RB in round 1. |
This entire post is laughable. Chris Bosh is a major contributor, a core piece of the team, where our RBs are insignificant. There's no comparison to be made.
No one has said anything about taking a RB in rnd 1 or needing AP, stop over reacting. There's nothing wrong with me expecting more than being dead last or close to it every single year.
What frustrates me about this damn forum is you can't be realistic. Everything is sunshine and roses, no one dares get any criticism. Heaven forbid I think management made a mistake. |
Exactly, IIRC the Heat were down 2-3 to the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals last year and finally got Bosh back in game 6 and went on to not only win the series but the finals. While A-Rod may be our Lebron, we need a Bosh and in this case it seems like that would be a quality RB. |
We don't have a "Chris Bosh"? How about Greg Jennings? Jordy Nelson? James Jones? Randall Cobb? Even Jermichael.
Stop living in the past. Ahman Green doesn't play here anymore. We aren't gonna pull Mike Wahle or Marco Rivera and run power 15 times a game. Hate it or love it this is the team TT built, this is the new Packers. It runs entirely through the QB and his targets. Our RB is nothing more than than a decoy, something to keep a defense honest. We need 20 carries, we shoot for 4 ypc, thats it, thats our running game. Has it been successful this year? No, but if you told me we would lose Cedric Benson and Bryan Bulaga this year, Derek Sherrod would not come back, and Jeff Saturday would play like his contract was signed through AARP, I prolly could have told you we wouldn't run the ball well.
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Blink
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 650
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I never said anything about us not having a Bosh, I just completely disagreed that Bosh and our RBs have a similar role.
You just said yourself the RB is probably going to get 20 carries, but you don't care if we get anything out of it? What happened to us? My god I never thought I'd see the day we just didn't care if we wasted 20 downs on offense.
I really don't understand why everyone is totally cool with having the worst group of RBs in the NFL.
uglymayne:
Its definitely coaching as well, which is why I said either change up some position coaching or get new players. Something has to change, or nothing will.
I do partially give blame for the OL. You went into the season with only 2 healthy tackles that could realisticly get you through a game, one of which just got killed by JPP. That's a significant error in my book.
I love what TT has done here overall, but the RB situation has been awful for years and we refuse to address it. The OL had significant holes when you looked past the starting five, and again we refused to address it.
I don't know if they missed on Sherrods health for the year, or if no one was available, all I know is the current situation is below standards. |
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Packerraymond
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 11816
Location: UW Oshkosh
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Blink wrote: | I never said anything about us not having a Bosh, I just completely disagreed that Bosh and our RBs have a similar role.
You just said yourself the RB is probably going to get 20 carries, but you don't care if we get anything out of it? What happened to us? My god I never thought I'd see the day we just didn't care if we wasted 20 downs on offense.
I really don't understand why everyone is totally cool with having the worst group of RBs in the NFL.
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We didn't have the worst RBs in the game until we lost two of them to injury. Alex Green is a fine 3rd down back, and James Starks was a 3-4 RB on the depth chart. Fact is this team may or may not dole out a lot of cash for Greg Jennings, but it certainly will for Rodgers, Matthews and Raji and in the future Nelson and Cobb. There is no room for a pricey RB on this team. Hopefully we find a back in round 2 that makes 750k for a couple of years of success and we let him go when his rookie deal is up.
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UpTheSeam85
Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Packerraymond wrote: | | UpTheSeam85 wrote: | | Blink wrote: | | Packerraymond wrote: | | Blink wrote: | How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.
We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.
Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.
And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment. |
What RB is going to instill fear from a defense when Aaron Rodgers is your QB????
This is what frustrates me so much about Packer fans and the running game. It's like game planning against the Heat to stop Chris Bosh. Bryce Brown is just the next example of another talented RB that can play in the NFL that was no where near a high draft pick. If you aren't getting Adrian Peterson, you don't take a RB in round 1. |
This entire post is laughable. Chris Bosh is a major contributor, a core piece of the team, where our RBs are insignificant. There's no comparison to be made.
No one has said anything about taking a RB in rnd 1 or needing AP, stop over reacting. There's nothing wrong with me expecting more than being dead last or close to it every single year.
What frustrates me about this damn forum is you can't be realistic. Everything is sunshine and roses, no one dares get any criticism. Heaven forbid I think management made a mistake. |
Exactly, IIRC the Heat were down 2-3 to the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals last year and finally got Bosh back in game 6 and went on to not only win the series but the finals. While A-Rod may be our Lebron, we need a Bosh and in this case it seems like that would be a quality RB. |
We don't have a "Chris Bosh"? How about Greg Jennings? Jordy Nelson? James Jones? Randall Cobb? Even Jermichael.
Stop living in the past. Ahman Green doesn't play here anymore. We aren't gonna pull Mike Wahle or Marco Rivera and run power 15 times a game. Hate it or love it this is the team TT built, this is the new Packers. It runs entirely through the QB and his targets. Our RB is nothing more than than a decoy, something to keep a defense honest. We need 20 carries, we shoot for 4 ypc, thats it, thats our running game. Has it been successful this year? No, but if you told me we would lose Cedric Benson and Bryan Bulaga this year, Derek Sherrod would not come back, and Jeff Saturday would play like his contract was signed through AARP, I prolly could have told you we wouldn't run the ball well. |
Maybe it's because we haven't played up to our standards lately, but I don't feel like any of those guys will be the reason we win a championship, obviously they are great contributors to our passing game but in the end a running game is key. We could have all the superstars possible out wide and it won't make a difference if every team is playing that cover 2 look, we have to be able to find a running back that can help open up our passing game. Though yes, we probably do have the talent this year and it's just injuries that have killed our running game. |
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Pugger
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 4306
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I think we can all agree we don't need an Adrian Peterson but we do need a back that can get just enough yards to keep defenses honest. And we do need a playcaller that doesn't abandon it if we don't get positive yards every stinkin' time a running play is called.
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