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Giants game, do we have post game thoughts?
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Blink


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 719
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to keep in mind that we were missing our starting WR, starting tackle, starting and back up MLB, starting safety, starting OLB, starting CB, as well as numerous others and a guard playing tackle but:

TT and MM have failed for years as far as the running game and pass protection are concerned. I'm not saying they should be on the hot seat, far from it, but in this instance they have failed.

We do not possess a quality back outside of Cedric Benson. The first RB we've had since Ryan Grants back to back 1k seasons was a old and worn RB we got in free agency. We haven't drafted a capable RB in TTs tenure. I know the line sucks at run blocking but its not like Alex Green or Starks is out there making plays on their own.

We've had this problem since we lost Grant years ago, and he wasn't even good in the first place. Eventually they need to get some flak for consistently failing to provide a dependable RB.

As for the OL:

We all knew going into the season that Sherrod was going to be at least PUPed, if not IRed. That eliminates your primary, and really only, viable back up. We decided to enter the season with our starting LG as our primary back up at RT.

So instead of just introducing one guy into the lineup, we now have two players getting settled during the middle of the season. This does not make any sense. Having one or two back ups for the entire OL is a flat out stupid idea, since now we have no real backup for any position.

The TT and MM combo has been great for GB, but these areas are failures year after year. Replace the position coach or get some new blood in there, it shouldn't be acceptable to be constantly awful in a particular area.
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GoPackGo


Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink wrote:
We've had this problem since we lost Grant years ago, and he wasn't even good in the first place.


I 100% disagree. Was Ryan Grant on the level of an Adrian Peterson? Nope.

But for this offense? He was perfect. One cut and he could be 50+ yards down the field in an instant. That's all we need in the run game. The opposing D can be gap sound for 14 of 15 plays, but if that 15th play is a 65 yard TD..

Well, let's just say they won't be playing a 2 deep shell the entire game.
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Blink


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.

We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.

Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.

And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't be good at everything. Of the options, the running game is one of the least important things to try and be good at. Practice time is too limited and running is not where a good team is going to make their bread and butter.
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MrBobGray


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 1564
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink wrote:
How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.

We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.

Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.

And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment.


Yes he did. Maybe not toward the end as much when he was breaking down, but certainly early on. He had more 20+ yard runs on a per carry average than anyone in the NFL in 2007, including AP. He averaged over 5 YPC and in the nine games he either started or played significant time in, he had a run over 20 yards in all but one of them. Grant was a big play waiting to happen, and that made people respect the run. No, he wasn't particularly elusive in the open field, but if you think his ability to outrun the entire defense didn't scare opposing defenses, I don't know what to tell you.
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GoPackGo


Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink wrote:
How was he perfect? Mediocrity is perfection now? I really don't understand why we accept that on the Packers just because we have Rodgers.

We strive for average from our running game. That's a losing mentality.

Grant never instilled fear or respect from defenses. He took what they gave him. He'd put his head down and get what he could, and if there was a lane he had the speed to break away. He never made anyone miss, was replaced by Jackson as 3rd down back because he was neither adept at pass pro nor receiving. He was average, nothing more and nothing less.

And this was all how many years ago? And again we didn't draft him. 2 years plus without a hundred yard rusher is an embarassment.


I didn't say he was perfect. I said he was a perfect fit for this offense.

A losing mentality? We aren't a team that's hoping for 100+ yard rushers. You say it's an embarrassment, but we went 15-1 last year (and 34-7 last 2) without a "franchise" running back or 100 yard rusher. Starks did go over 100 in the Eagles playoff game, but either way, the point stands.

You don't need a 100 yard rusher to make this offense go. All you need is the threat of a 100 yard rusher. Ryan Grant was that. Didn't you watch him at all? He gobbled up huge chunks of yardage when he got to the 2nd level. He ran for over 200 in a playoff game! He had a handful of 50+ yard gains. Dude was an explosive runner when he had a cutback lane. I'd love to have a Ray Rice type of back in this offense, but you don't need one to win in this set.
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JCamGOPACKGO


Joined: 14 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree on our failures at RB. We have had one capable back since Ahman Green and that was very short-lived. I think McCarthy and Ted Thompson need to realize the organization struggles scouting RB talent and they need to bring in someone to fix it. I know a lot of people are hoping we sign Steven Jackson but I feel that would be Benson 2.0. We need to bring in someone through the draft that we can depend on for the next 5+ years. Easier said than done, but other organizations have been able to do it with 2nd round picks, 6th round picks, even 7th round picks with guys like LeSean McCoy, Alfred Morris, and Arian Foster. Why can't we?
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Kal-El


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely miss Ryan Grant.

Benson is alright, but I miss the long runs that Grant would break off a few times a game.

Those runs really gave our offense a boost every now and then, helped us score.
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JCamGOPACKGO


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal-El wrote:
I definitely miss Ryan Grant.

Benson is alright, but I miss the long runs that Grant would break off a few times a game.

Those runs really gave our offense a boost every now and then, helped us score.


I hear ya man. It's just unfortunate we haven't been able to replace him. When we get a capable RB, we all know what happens. Starks in the 2010-11 playoffs looked like the next guy but he hasn't since and not much has been done to get the running game back on track. Benson did help earlier this year, but it's not like a RB at his age with his mileage is gonna revitalize the offense and bring it back to 2010-11 playoff form. Just my thoughts.
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UpTheSeam85


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCamGOPACKGO wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
I definitely miss Ryan Grant.

Benson is alright, but I miss the long runs that Grant would break off a few times a game.

Those runs really gave our offense a boost every now and then, helped us score.


I hear ya man. It's just unfortunate we haven't been able to replace him. When we get a capable RB, we all know what happens. Starks in the 2010-11 playoffs looked like the next guy but he hasn't since and not much has been done to get the running game back on track. Benson did help earlier this year, but it's not like a RB at his age with his mileage is gonna revitalize the offense and bring it back to 2010-11 playoff form. Just my thoughts.

I think having Benson back would be huge. Defenses respect him and I think he can provide exactly what we need. If teams are going to play 2 high safeties, Benson will exploit that and eventually our beloved down field passing game will open up. Why do you think the Pats are sooo good offensvely right now? Their running game is pretty darn good and with a QB like Brady there's pretty much no way to stop that two headed monster. That's why we won the super bowl in 2010, the running game allowing Rodgers to Rodg
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Blink


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not OK to be completely and utterly awful at any aspect. Its insanity that Packer fans accept repeated failure just because we're a good passing team.

Of course you're not going to be good at everything, that's ok. Its not ok to be the worst in the league year after year.

Its totally cool though, we have Aaron.
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JCamGOPACKGO


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UpTheSeam85 wrote:
JCamGOPACKGO wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
I definitely miss Ryan Grant.

Benson is alright, but I miss the long runs that Grant would break off a few times a game.

Those runs really gave our offense a boost every now and then, helped us score.


I hear ya man. It's just unfortunate we haven't been able to replace him. When we get a capable RB, we all know what happens. Starks in the 2010-11 playoffs looked like the next guy but he hasn't since and not much has been done to get the running game back on track. Benson did help earlier this year, but it's not like a RB at his age with his mileage is gonna revitalize the offense and bring it back to 2010-11 playoff form. Just my thoughts.

I think having Benson back would be huge. Defenses respect him and I think he can provide exactly what we need. If teams are going to play 2 high safeties, Benson will exploit that and eventually our beloved down field passing game will open up. Why do you think the Pats are sooo good offensvely right now? Their running game is pretty darn good and with a QB like Brady there's pretty much no way to stop that two headed monster. That's why we won the super bowl in 2010, the running game allowing Rodgers to Rodg


Exactly. You nailed it. But Ridley is far superior to Benson at this point in their respective careers and I know you probably feel the same way. If we had a Ridley type guy in the backfield we would be more unstoppable on offense than New England currently is. Imagine Green Bay bringing in someone who isn't on their last legs like Ced, someone we can count on for years. We need new eyes looking at the draft eligible RBs this year to find a younger guy who can come in and do what a guy like Alfred Morris has done in Washington. Yea that's a lot to ask and a lot of that running game's success comes from RG3 and his mobility, but I'm not saying we even need a guy to have the SAME production as someone like Alfred Morris. Just a good value back who can consistently average 4+ypc and break off a big one from time to time. I know there's a RB in the draft that could provide that and also someone out there who could help us find this guy come April. Our management doesn't seem to have success in that area of scouting.
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Pack4life7


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our RB situation right now- Starks,Green, Benson- is significantly better than when we won it all in 2010. We could have had a 2 back system of Adrian Petersen and a prime Barry Sanders Sunday night and we still would have gotten whupped.

Just take a deep breath and relax. It was one game and we still control or own destiny.

If we look that awful against the Vikings I'll be right there with you. But I really don't think that's going to happen.
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Blink


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
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Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pack4life7 wrote:
Our RB situation right now- Starks,Green, Benson- is significantly better than when we won it all in 2010. We could have had a 2 back system of Adrian Petersen and a prime Barry Sanders Sunday night and we still would have gotten whupped.

Just take a deep breath and relax. It was one game and we still control or own destiny.

If we look that awful against the Vikings I'll be right there with you. But I really don't think that's going to happen.


I'm not panicked, I've never said we were in big trouble, just that our RB and OL situation are pathetic.

I'm not counting Benson among our current RBs as he's on IR and signed for only the one year(IIRC).

Alex Green has shown me nothing for me to agree our RB situation is significantly better.
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JCamGOPACKGO


Joined: 14 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pack4life7 wrote:
Our RB situation right now- Starks,Green, Benson- is significantly better than when we won it all in 2010. We could have had a 2 back system of Adrian Petersen and a prime Barry Sanders Sunday night and we still would have gotten whupped.

Just take a deep breath and relax. It was one game and we still control or own destiny.

If we look that awful against the Vikings I'll be right there with you. But I really don't think that's going to happen.


With the way Starks played in the 2010 playoffs, I have to disagree and say we are not in a better situation this year. Especially since Benson may not even come back at all. Starks and his late season/playoff emergence is a huge part of why we won it and what allowed Aaron to do what he did. Right now our guys are getting 3ypc and rarely breaking off a big run. I think we have had only 2 20+ yarders all year from our actual RBs. That is not going to be a balanced offense. Unless these guys step it up significantly, we need to make upgrading RB a focal point this coming offseason.
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