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Patience is a virtue
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8905
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
bitty wrote:
This is a post I read on another site it hit the nail on the head.

The Mack Says:
November 26th, 2012 at 12:11 am

You guys kill me, its the recievers fault, its Dmac fault, its carson, its kelly, its branch,blah blah blah. You mean to tell me every player on this team is struggling whether its offense or defense they’ve all just mysteriously forgotten how to play at the same time even though they were just fine the previous year after some players were even in the conversation for pro bowl considerations. 1 or 2 players lagging off ok but the whole dam team dropping off in unison? ?? There’s a common denominator folks and thats coaching. Point blank! Plain and simple.


Aside from Branch and Kelly, no one on the D has really regressed. It's just not a very talented unit. Without a pass rush, your D is going to get exposed.


Too add to this, Seymour being out has confirmed my previous thoughts that Kelly's progress the last few years is directly tied to Seymour. Seymour may stick another season but I cant see any reason to keep Kelly. ehh what a disappointment.

I think Branch will come along he is learning a new way to play besides our old defense and is still relativley young.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:

Too add to this, Seymour being out has confirmed my previous thoughts that Kelly's progress the last few years is directly tied to Seymour. Seymour may stick another season but I cant see any reason to keep Kelly. ehh what a disappointment.


Seymour was out last year as well.
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bitty


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
early43 wrote:
My biggest fear is Allen and McK being patience with Knapp... IMO, Allen is setting himself up for failure if he's going to hitch his wagons to Knapp as OC moving forward.

Young, old, aggressive, conservative... I really dont care what kind of OC we get as long as it isnt Knapp next year. I cant think of another OC in the league who has a longer track record of being terrible and still operating as a OC. The direction he has taken this offense is honestly laughable. It took injuries to our RB's for him to finally get Reece involved... this alone just blows my mind. If my 5 yr old nephew knew that Reece was one of the Raiders better players, how does an NFL OC not??

Ok, my weekly anit-Knapp rant is done.


It's pretty obvious the main reason Knapp ended up as our OC was his connection to Allen from their days in Atlanta. If we are to hire a new OC, i think McKenzie has to be more involved in the process. Allen just isn't connected to enough coaches in this league yet. He's taking his advices from Dan Reeves who has been out of the league for a decade. It's normal for a young guy like him to be in this situation but he needs help from our GM.



It seems to me that he doesn't want to offend his friend
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
It seems to me that he doesn't want to offend his friend


Well this is business, and if Allen doesn't want to fire Knapp, I can see McKenzie doing it.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

So true. Some people in here are acting like we had a good D last year. We allowed 27 PPG in 2011 (29th in the NFL), and now we are allowing 32 PPG. Given the fact that we cut our only pass rusher, our top (regardless of how you rate him) CB, Kelly and Seymour have clearly lost a step, and we have been rolling with A FS, Joselio Hanson, Pat Lee at CB for much of the season, it really isnt a surprise our D looks so awful.


No one is acting like our D was good last year. Our DC last year was hired from the UFL and was an incompetent puppet. Our current staff is getting worse results than he did. It fills me with so much confidence.

Btw, we've lost the last 3 games by more than 3 TDs. First time in franchise history. Why do i get the feeling someone's gonna tell me it was to be expected as well?


bitty was saying that whether its offense or defense, our talent didnt drop off much. Our current staff is getting worse results (not by much), with much, much worse personnel. I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this all daY long. ^^^
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoom nailed it. Its funny 'cause people whine about Ro not shooting the right gap, or Kelly being too interested in penetrating or Tyvon getting beat then the same ones blame it on the coaches. Which is it? Since we're probably not getting rid of Allen, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. We're going to give him another year and hopefully a lot more talent to work with to see what he can do. Patience is indeed a virtue.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.


I'm sorry but when you're dead last in points allowed, the coaching staff has to be held accountable as well. And we're not getting below average results, we're getting awful results.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if you look at it logically we are re-buildxing this thing from the ground up while still playing games.

Not an easy feat with this cast of characters.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
this all daY long. ^^^


More of that all day long.

You see WRs running wide open on 3rd down. That's talent. You can scheme all you want, but if the player flat can't cover and you don't have anyone capable of getting to the QB on a blitz, it's going to fail.

The inability to get to the QB has been eyeopening. It's one thing not to register sacks, entirely another to not consistently get pressure.

You can dial up a blitz all day, but if you don't have a player with the ability to get there, it's not going to work. The Raiders don't have a single player who you'd say is a pass rusher. Not even a 3rd down edge rusher that can get pressure. You can't coach that.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.


I'm sorry but when you're dead last in points allowed, the coaching staff has to be held accountable as well. And we're not getting below average results, we're getting awful results.


We were getting awful results last year. Then had to cut the only player capable of generating pressure on the QB.

What did you honestly expect?

A defense without a pass rusher is never going to be successful. They were limited a year ago w/ only 1 in Whimbley and dead in the water with none this season.

Good pass rushers keep the QB guessing and help the secondary. QBs against Oakland are standing tall and delivering on virtually 95% of their pass attempts. Huge issue.
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bitty


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

So true. Some people in here are acting like we had a good D last year. We allowed 27 PPG in 2011 (29th in the NFL), and now we are allowing 32 PPG. Given the fact that we cut our only pass rusher, our top (regardless of how you rate him) CB, Kelly and Seymour have clearly lost a step, and we have been rolling with A FS, Joselio Hanson, Pat Lee at CB for much of the season, it really isnt a surprise our D looks so awful.


No one is acting like our D was good last year. Our DC last year was hired from the UFL and was an incompetent puppet. Our current staff is getting worse results than he did. It fills me with so much confidence.

Btw, we've lost the last 3 games by more than 3 TDs. First time in franchise history. Why do i get the feeling someone's gonna tell me it was to be expected as well?


bitty was saying that whether its offense or defense, our talent didnt drop off much. Our current staff is getting worse results (not by much), with much, much worse personnel. I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.



It's the little things that I have a problem with. Why are the D-backs lining up wrong. It's third and five and the D-backs are given the WRs a ten yard cushion. Why is the other teams number one WR not double-team? Why does the coach blitz a Saftey from ten yards away? why do the D- Backs not bump at the LOS? How does the chemistry between the QB and the WRs get worse as the season goes on.

These are not talent issues.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

So true. Some people in here are acting like we had a good D last year. We allowed 27 PPG in 2011 (29th in the NFL), and now we are allowing 32 PPG. Given the fact that we cut our only pass rusher, our top (regardless of how you rate him) CB, Kelly and Seymour have clearly lost a step, and we have been rolling with A FS, Joselio Hanson, Pat Lee at CB for much of the season, it really isnt a surprise our D looks so awful.


No one is acting like our D was good last year. Our DC last year was hired from the UFL and was an incompetent puppet. Our current staff is getting worse results than he did. It fills me with so much confidence.

Btw, we've lost the last 3 games by more than 3 TDs. First time in franchise history. Why do i get the feeling someone's gonna tell me it was to be expected as well?


bitty was saying that whether its offense or defense, our talent didnt drop off much. Our current staff is getting worse results (not by much), with much, much worse personnel. I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.



It's the little things that I have a problem with. Why are the D-backs lining up wrong. It's third and five and the D-backs are given the WRs a ten yard cushion. Why is the other teams number one WR not double-team? Why does the coach blitz a Saftey from ten yards away? why do the D- Backs not bump at the LOS? How does the chemistry between the QB and the WRs get worse as the season goes on.

These are not talent issues.


More of this. Im sick of the talent excuse. Coaches are not doing a good job preparing the team point blank. AJ Green wide open. I dont mind Green beating somebody but it wasnt a Raider within 15 yards. WTF. We should not be this awful in all three phases of the game.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

So true. Some people in here are acting like we had a good D last year. We allowed 27 PPG in 2011 (29th in the NFL), and now we are allowing 32 PPG. Given the fact that we cut our only pass rusher, our top (regardless of how you rate him) CB, Kelly and Seymour have clearly lost a step, and we have been rolling with A FS, Joselio Hanson, Pat Lee at CB for much of the season, it really isnt a surprise our D looks so awful.


No one is acting like our D was good last year. Our DC last year was hired from the UFL and was an incompetent puppet. Our current staff is getting worse results than he did. It fills me with so much confidence.

Btw, we've lost the last 3 games by more than 3 TDs. First time in franchise history. Why do i get the feeling someone's gonna tell me it was to be expected as well?


bitty was saying that whether its offense or defense, our talent didnt drop off much. Our current staff is getting worse results (not by much), with much, much worse personnel. I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.



It's the little things that I have a problem with. Why are the D-backs lining up wrong. It's third and five and the D-backs are given the WRs a ten yard cushion. Why is the other teams number one WR not double-team? Why does the coach blitz a Saftey from ten yards away? why do the D- Backs not bump at the LOS? How does the chemistry between the QB and the WRs get worse as the season goes on.

These are not talent issues.


You serious with this?

The CBs do play bump and run occasion. Problem, none of them are good enough and get beat quickly.

AJ Green had 2 big catches, otherwise was doubled most the game. On a 3rd and long in the 4th he punked 2 defenders in coverage on him. Double teamed, didn't matter. Of course, there are usually 2-3 WRs running open on any play. You can't double team them all.

Teams blitz safeties from that depth every weekend. The difference is, CB coverage and the ability to get there.

Coaching is part of the issue, but you have to have players who can execute. You can match Giordano and Huff up on a teams #1 and they will lose the battle. That assuming the QB doesn't have an easy completion on some other scrub running free.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

So true. Some people in here are acting like we had a good D last year. We allowed 27 PPG in 2011 (29th in the NFL), and now we are allowing 32 PPG. Given the fact that we cut our only pass rusher, our top (regardless of how you rate him) CB, Kelly and Seymour have clearly lost a step, and we have been rolling with A FS, Joselio Hanson, Pat Lee at CB for much of the season, it really isnt a surprise our D looks so awful.


No one is acting like our D was good last year. Our DC last year was hired from the UFL and was an incompetent puppet. Our current staff is getting worse results than he did. It fills me with so much confidence.

Btw, we've lost the last 3 games by more than 3 TDs. First time in franchise history. Why do i get the feeling someone's gonna tell me it was to be expected as well?


bitty was saying that whether its offense or defense, our talent didnt drop off much. Our current staff is getting worse results (not by much), with much, much worse personnel. I'm sorry, but I dont think - LeBeau or Rex Ryan could step in as DC here and turn this D around right now. We simply lack talent on the defensive side of the ball. You can draw up great plays and schemes, but if you have below average players, you'll get below average results.



It's the little things that I have a problem with. Why are the D-backs lining up wrong. It's third and five and the D-backs are given the WRs a ten yard cushion. Why is the other teams number one WR not double-team? Why does the coach blitz a Saftey from ten yards away? why do the D- Backs not bump at the LOS? How does the chemistry between the QB and the WRs get worse as the season goes on.

These are not talent issues.


More of this. Im sick of the talent excuse. Coaches are not doing a good job preparing the team point blank. AJ Green wide open. I dont mind Green beating somebody but it wasnt a Raider within 15 yards. WTF. We should not be this awful in all three phases of the game.


So it's the coaches fault a player can't execute his assignment?

Let's pretend Tillman is the Raiders CB. You think he matches up with Green and leaves him wide open? Me neither.

Point to 1 player on this team who would start for the Bears or 9ers defense. There isn't one.

Just guessing Tarver could take over the 9ers defense and look formidable. Why? TALENT
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