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Duffman57
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: Draft Thread |
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Alright we're done, keep Norv for the season, keep losing, get a top 10 pick and reboot for next year.
So who you guys got? Here's my list for the first round at least...
Bradley Roby (LOVE this kid, everything you look for in an off man/zone CB, breaks REAL quickly, extreme athleticism, and my favorite, just plain FEISTY. Guys gets in there and mixes it up. Perfect fit for what we need. Gotta give LBC some credit for this one, he got me to look into him, but he's easily my favorite guy, even over Milner)
Eric Fisher (Great athlete, powerful guy, can get in a bad situation with his height, but continuing to add strength will make him a great OT.)
Taylor Lewan (Seems more in the class of Reiff/Bulaga to me, but can be a VERY good RT, and may be able to move over to LT for spot start duty)
Keke Mingo (Explosive like no other, imense upside as a pass rusher, incredible athlete. Perfect fit for a rush LB, and perfect compliment to Ingram who will play vs RT's and Mingo wiil play vs the LT's)
Star Lotulelei (I've always loved this guy, more of a penetrating NT type, but crazy quick off the line, powerful like no other and just dominates at the line of scrimage. He's just a different type of athlete as well.)
John Hankins (Another athletic big man, who's a monster to try to block. More of a clogger than Lotulelei, but doesn't penetrate as well. Louis Nix gets the nod over Hankins if he comes out though)
Eventually i'll get to rankings of guys by position, so there will be more of a sense of later round picks, but for now, i'm just doin first round.
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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You're selling Lewan short.
Te'o is this year's Ingram for me. Which means we're picking him. Probably.
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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MrDrew
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 14525
Location: Evil League of Evil
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Draft Thread |
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| Duffman57 wrote: | | Taylor Lewan (Seems more in the class of Reiff/Bulaga to me, but can be a VERY good RT, and may be able to move over to LT for spot start duty) |
In what I've seen, which isn't a lot, he looks more technically sound than Kalil did last year. I thought Kalil was a stud. After all of the offseason stuff, I don't think there will be a chance at Lewan outside of the top 5. I'd be thrilled to get him.
No matter who it is, they absolutely must bring in help on the OL, all positions. It has to be early this time around.
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Duffman57
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Draft Thread |
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Duffman57 wrote: | | Taylor Lewan (Seems more in the class of Reiff/Bulaga to me, but can be a VERY good RT, and may be able to move over to LT for spot start duty) |
In what I've seen, which isn't a lot, he looks more technically sound than Kalil did last year. I thought Kalil was a stud. After all of the offseason stuff, I don't think there will be a chance at Lewan outside of the top 5. I'd be thrilled to get him.
No matter who it is, they absolutely must bring in help on the OL, all positions. It has to be early this time around. |
First of all, i completely disagree that he's more technically sound than Khalil, but we can disagree on that, even if he is, he's not nearly the athlete Khalil was. Lewan's biggest technique flaw is that he's got some bad footwork, and can lose leverage and those two things can be really hard to fix, no matter how hard of a worker the guy is. There's guys who can get away with bad footwork with their athleticism, like Gaither, but Lewan is not that type of guy. I keep seeing him and thinking he's nearly the exact same player as Reiff was last year.
I may be in a boat alone on this, but if we end up moving to a ZBS, Jake Matthews and Eric Fisher are worthy of top ten picks.
The two developmental guys for RT i like are Kyle Long, and Reid Fragle from Oregon/O$U.
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome. |
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MrDrew
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Location: Evil League of Evil
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I know I don't see nearly as much college ball as you guys do, but I've never seen anything to suggest Lewan has bad footwork. In everything I've seen he keeps a wide base, is never off balance, drives hard. He also has fantastic handwork.
I'll keep watching where I can, but right now, I just don't see it. Not even his frosh year.
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're underrating Lewan's athleticism.
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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lakeroy
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think anyone who has watched a down of Chargers football this season knows our 1st round pick almost has to be used on the OL. 1 guy you didn't have on your list that I would love to have is Chance Warmack.
Mingo doesn't line up over the LT, he always goes against the RT whenever I watch LSU. Sam Montgomery lines up against the LT. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| lakeroy wrote: | I think anyone who has watched a down of Chargers football this season knows our 1st round pick almost has to be used on the OL. 1 guy you didn't have on your list that I would love to have is Chance Warmack.
Mingo doesn't line up over the LT, he always goes against the RT whenever I watch LSU. Sam Montgomery lines up against the LT. |
Yeah, the only reason Mingo doesn't play on the LT is because fellow top ten draft pick Montgomery lines up on the LT. 
Warmack would be awesome, but we need a LT.
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15538
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:29 am Post subject: |
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We "need" and LT, but we have Dean Spanos as our owner.
This whole not drafting an OL since the 80's thing isn't limited just to AJ and Butler. This goes back to Beathard and Steve Ortmayer. The only common thread the entire way has been the Spanos clan (notice how Dean first started working for the club in 1984... and 1985 was the last time we committed a pick higher than the single 2nd spent on McNeill).
Then throw in Dean's notorious hatred for paying people to not work for him, coupled with the fact that Gaither costs more to release or trade in 2013 (in terms of cap-hit) than he does to keep (and that Dean would have to shell out $4.5 million in "severance" to him if he was released). I just don't see this - yes, this of all years - as the year that the team finally bucks the trend and spends a 1st round pick on an OL (at least not an LT).
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to start saying silent prayers that Jake Matthews or Jon Cooper falls to the 2nd round and that whoever our GM is in May has the sense to trade up for him if necessary.
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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MrDrew
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:57 am Post subject: |
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So how many of the "important" FA's can be actually replaced by rookies?
Phillips
Barnes
Jammer
Cason
Brown
Martin
Green
Vasquez
Franklin
How many of the guys can be successfully replaced with somebody on the roster?
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15538
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| MrDrew wrote: | So how many of the "important" FA's can be actually replaced by rookies?
Phillips
Barnes
Jammer
Cason
Brown
Martin
Green
Vasquez
Franklin
How many of the guys can be successfully replaced with somebody on the roster? |
Depends on the rookie I suppose.
If we're talking Jarvis James (who knows... if we keep up our current track record we might actually stand a chance at him unless he has a Von Miller type combine) who comes with experience playing out of a two-point stance and understanding a good deal of what is expected of a 3-4 WOLB, then Phillips is far more replaceable by a rookie. If we're talking Demontre Moore who has some experience in that respect (being that he plays A&M's "Joker" position as Miller did, similar to Seattle's LEO position) the learning curve needs to be accounted for a little more, but not as much as say someone like either of the two (or three) Florida State guys or possibly even Keke Mingo, who have minimal experience playing standing up and are likely to be limited to Aldon Smith/Whitney Mercilus type detail as rookies (quite possibly very effective as situational pass-rushers, but certainly not the every down player that Phillips is capable of being).
As for Cason/Jammer... there's always going to be a learning curve for rookie CB's regardless of whether they're Patrick Peterson (top 5 pick) or Leonard Johnson (UDFA). Rookie CB's almost always go through growing pains, particularly when asked to match up against the heavy-hitters (and H-W-S matchups they didn't see quite as regularly in college) on a weekly basis. But then, both Jammer and Cason are struggling so really what would be new. At least there'd be room to grow into and certainly more hope than there is now. If the CB's has clean technique (mostly footwork and hips) and better than average instincts, which you can still find in the 3rd and 4th rounds (just not with 4.3 speed), you can protect them enough with scheme and productive pass-rush to keep them from being liabilities.
Rookie OL are again largely dependent on where their floor sits. There's an obvious strength gap with most guys that needs to be made-up before they can truly "impress" (this is unless you've got a guy who has Mike Iupati type "farm strength"). But cleaner technique - i.e. clean footwork, good hand placement, and distinct knee-bend to 'sit' into blocks - will allow rookie linemen to hold their own. Typically you see them struggle a bit more with run-blocking than pass-pro (the ones that come in with clean technique) but that's largely the strength gap. Clean and well-versed technique has been what's allowed guys like Matt Kalil and Cordy Glenn to come in and enjoy initial success. It's why someone like Chance Warmack will be highly coveted. Again, it's not like our line's having a ton of success right now. Part of that's because they all have sloppy technique, part of it is because most of them have little to no fire in their bellies (Vasquez might be the only one you could argue that for, Hardwick appears to have lost his sad to say).
Which Brown are you talking about? Vincent? Why would we need to replace him?
As to Martin... it could be done. It would be much easier if Franklin was re-signed. Reyes is already showing marked signs of improvement, and he's still only about halfway across making up that strength differential. He should see an exodus akin to what Liuget has this year in 2013. With 5-Tech's that's really what it comes down to. You're being asked to consistently contend with double-teams and until you get up to pro-caliber strength, your'e going to be playing against a loaded deck. Get a guy with some major athleticism to his game and he could see some initial success in 1-gap assignments, as we've seen with Reyes this year, but you don't expect to see much results from your 5-Tech's till year 2. Get a guy with a good anchor and already well progressed on his strength program and he could likely fill whatever gap is left over by martin after Reyes moves into his starting spot opposite Liuget next season. I'd prefer to spend the pick on a NT who shows the capability of playing 5-Tech while he "grows into" playing the 0-Tech as it kills two birds with one stone, and this was something that sadly Cam Thomas pretty much failed at being able to do.
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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MrDrew
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| The LBC wrote: | | Which Brown are you talking about? Vincent? Why would we need to replace him?. |
Sorry. That would be Ronnie Brown. His skill in the passing game usually aren't standard issue for rookies. He'll probably be worth keeping as long as he doesn't want starter money.
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Boltstrikes
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 5106
Location: LA MIRADA, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I can't even get excited for the draft. We already know if our front office isn't cleaned we'll get someone with an injury history and the ability to be coached right down to worthless.
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18063
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Boltstrikes wrote: | | I can't even get excited for the draft. We already know if our front office isn't cleaned we'll get someone with an injury history and the ability to be coached right down to worthless. |
That's exactly what we've done with our last two first rounders right?
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15538
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MrDrew wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | | Which Brown are you talking about? Vincent? Why would we need to replace him?. |
Sorry. That would be Ronnie Brown. His skill in the passing game usually aren't standard issue for rookies. He'll probably be worth keeping as long as he doesn't want starter money. |
Agreed. I'm of the belief that someone needs to be brought in to light a fire under Mathews' butt. And that means someone who presents a legitimate threat to take carries and reps from him Day One as well as a threat that if he doesn't start shoring up the little things that are errors in his game, his contract extension (or at least the monetary value attached to it) will be in threat. This means bringing in a guy who doesn't need to be taught to pass-block or have his pass-blocking "cleaned up". People get caught up in the necessity for another Spoles-type scatback, but that kind of player never sees the field barring injury unless he can pass-block well.
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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