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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Bill Sheridan, DC Reply with quote

No, this is not some knee jerk, angry thread after a tough loss. However, looking at the defenses' performance throughout the year, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion for a lot of reasons I will write.

First, there are plenty of positives. The run defense has been exceptional all year. The tackling has been very solid in all levels of the defense. The LB play in the run game has been very solid, and Sheridan's background before being a DC was LB coach. The defense is opportunistic and causes turnovers, particularly interceptions. Also, let's face it, there have been some real tough injuries on the defensive side of the ball, and guys playing CB right now who weren't even with the team at the end of training camp.

Now for the really big negative. I'm just not sure he is a great play caller. The line stunts, which limit the pass rushing ability of your best player (GMC) is mind numbing. The overuse of the three man rush. I question his playcalling ability mainly.

Finally, when Coach Schiano was hired last season, he was hired pretty late in the offseason. Sheridan wasn't his first choice and a lot of assistants weren't allowed to interview for his staff. There will be no such hinderances after this season with Coach Schiano firmly entrenched as head coach. Right now, I think it is 50/50 whether he is back.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8156
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1395
Location: Bradenton,FL
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.


I think everybody is complaining way too much about our pass rushers
I actually like our DEs
Maybe we should draft a pass rushing linebacker like Montgomery or draft Werner and make him our OLB

We need Corners end of story that should be the primary need not DEs
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5nick5


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we should give him another year. He hasn't had much to work with and he's not doing that bad. Believe me, I was calling for his head after terrible play-calling against Washington, but I think his play-calling has improved.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8156
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.


I think everybody is complaining way too much about our pass rushers
I actually like our DEs
Maybe we should draft a pass rushing linebacker like Montgomery or draft Werner and make him our OLB

We need Corners end of story that should be the primary need not DEs


Hm idk what game your watching but almost every game I see qbs having a clean pocket and time to step up and have so much time to find a open wr or for the wr to get open.

No arguing with u. CB is also a need but I don't know what you can really like about our pass rush when they don't help the secondary out.

To me both are pretty bad right now and teams like the falcons don't have a very strong offensive line and te only sack we got was the cb blitz by Biggers. Other than that Ryan had a clean pocket the entire game.
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5nick5


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1258
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
LazyBoyFil wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.


I think everybody is complaining way too much about our pass rushers
I actually like our DEs
Maybe we should draft a pass rushing linebacker like Montgomery or draft Werner and make him our OLB

We need Corners end of story that should be the primary need not DEs


Hm idk what game your watching but almost every game I see qbs having a clean pocket and time to step up and have so much time to find a open wr or for the wr to get open.

No arguing with u. CB is also a need but I don't know what you can really like about our pass rush when they don't help the secondary out.

To me both are pretty bad right now and teams like the falcons don't have a very strong offensive line and te only sack we got was the cb blitz by Biggers. Other than that Ryan had a clean pocket the entire game.


Both are problems. I still think a lack of quality CBs is the biggest problem, but at the same time, the lack of a pass rush isn't doing them any favors.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5nick5 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
LazyBoyFil wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.


I think everybody is complaining way too much about our pass rushers
I actually like our DEs
Maybe we should draft a pass rushing linebacker like Montgomery or draft Werner and make him our OLB

We need Corners end of story that should be the primary need not DEs


Hm idk what game your watching but almost every game I see qbs having a clean pocket and time to step up and have so much time to find a open wr or for the wr to get open.

No arguing with u. CB is also a need but I don't know what you can really like about our pass rush when they don't help the secondary out.

To me both are pretty bad right now and teams like the falcons don't have a very strong offensive line and te only sack we got was the cb blitz by Biggers. Other than that Ryan had a clean pocket the entire game.


Both are problems. I still think a lack of quality CBs is the biggest problem, but at the same time, the lack of a pass rush isn't doing them any favors.


Yeah. I think te best route would be to add a cb in FA maybe 2. I like Johnson a lot but he's better suited in te nickel but could develop into a solid #2.

Clayborn has been hurt but to me he's a better run defender than pass rusher.
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1395
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5nick5 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
LazyBoyFil wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.


I think everybody is complaining way too much about our pass rushers
I actually like our DEs
Maybe we should draft a pass rushing linebacker like Montgomery or draft Werner and make him our OLB

We need Corners end of story that should be the primary need not DEs


Hm idk what game your watching but almost every game I see qbs having a clean pocket and time to step up and have so much time to find a open wr or for the wr to get open.

No arguing with u. CB is also a need but I don't know what you can really like about our pass rush when they don't help the secondary out.

To me both are pretty bad right now and teams like the falcons don't have a very strong offensive line and te only sack we got was the cb blitz by Biggers. Other than that Ryan had a clean pocket the entire game.


Both are problems. I still think a lack of quality CBs is the biggest problem, but at the same time, the lack of a pass rush isn't doing them any favors.



I agree with this

Our CBs are the main problem
But the pass rush isn't helping them out either

But I do like our DEs Teo Neshiam Bennett and Clayborn are good IMO
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canadabuccaneer


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need to give him another year at least, get some more pieces for the defense. Right now he has CBs that cant play man to man, press or zone very well with little to no pressure on the QB. All part of the recipe for worst pass defense in the league.

One thing that does annoy me is the three man rush and all the freaking stunts! its no coincidence most of the pressure on the QB is when we just let them loose
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what separates the great DCs is the ability to get their teams off on the 3rd down. This defense does a very good job with TFL, which should help them get off the field. However, since the bye, this defense is having a hard time getting off the field. Way too many 3rd and longs are being converted. The Bucs have a potent offense, the defense has to give them the ball back more then three times in a half against the better teams.

My concern with his playcalling is the predictability. When they blitz, it is almost always Barber (mostly), Foster, and David (the least of the three). Biggers' blitz today worked because of the unpredictabily. Maybe they don't scheme overy exotic because of all the youth. However, if you are having problems rushing the passer, please don't send three rushers, unless you are playing Brady Quinn.

However, since he wasn't Schiano's first choice, we'll see how much confidence is there. I don't think Schiano will treat his coaching staff much like his depth chart, if he feels you are not doing the job out you go. Belichick has done the same thing in New England with his staff.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2217
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Ehh I've had my mixed opinions on Sheridan but really think about this. You're best cb is an Udfa who just started seeing time against Minnesota.

You're front 4 can't generate a consistant pass rush and you're rookie top 10 pick is consistantly getting burned and out of position.

I'd say give him another year with some veteran CBS and a good pass rusher. I think the main reason we cannot be successful in pass defense is our pass rush is weak and our secondary is poor as well. But a very good front 6-7 will boost the play of a average secondary which we can get too.


I think everybody is complaining way too much about our pass rushers
I actually like our DEs

Maybe we should draft a pass rushing linebacker like Montgomery or draft Werner and make him our OLB

We need Corners end of story that should be the primary need not DEs


Your on drugs. What is it with you ppl placing coverage over pass rushing? That's so butt backwards.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1902
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
I think what separates the great DCs is the ability to get their teams off on the 3rd down. This defense does a very good job with TFL, which should help them get off the field. However, since the bye, this defense is having a hard time getting off the field. Way too many 3rd and longs are being converted.

My concern with his playcalling is the predictability. When they blitz, it is almost always Barber (mostly), Foster, and David (the least of the three). Biggers' blitz today worked because of the unpredictabily. Maybe they don't scheme overy exotic because of all the youth. However, if you are having problems rushing the passer, please don't send three rushers, unless you are playing Brady Quinn.

However, since he wasn't Schiano's first choice, we'll see how much confidence is there. I don't think Schiano will treat his coaching staff much like his depth chart, if he feels you are not doing the job out you go. Belichick has done the same thing in New England with his staff.
I think he has done a solid job. You are 100% right on all your points you've made. A lot of Giants fans were very critical on his play-calling too so you might have something here. I personally, think he should get another year with a better secondary. We have so many UDFA's and late round picks going up against some of the best WR's in the NFL - its kinda hard to disguise such liabilities in a pass first league. At the same time though, the CB technique is all wrong. I don't get why we come up all close to the line of scrimmage to the WR's and don't even attempt to re-route them? Or better yet today, 3rd down on the Falcons last drive...We have Gorrer playing Roddy White with OUTSIDE positioning???? You gotta tell your CB's to take away the quick slant and force the more difficult BACK shoulder throw! McCoy was very close to batting that ball down but that was a very critical play in the game. Rewind in the first QTR on 3rd and 4, why the hell did Le'Quan Lewis play so off on Jones? Julio Jones ran a quick hitch and turned it into a first down. How Sherdian plays the DB's - is unacceptable. Makes them look worse then they actually are. I guess ever since the Giants game when Talib tried to bump-n-run, re-routing is clearly out the window..........

If we can get a clear upgrade at DC, I'm all for it(a guy with a good track record)
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
I think what separates the great DCs is the ability to get their teams off on the 3rd down. This defense does a very good job with TFL, which should help them get off the field. However, since the bye, this defense is having a hard time getting off the field. Way too many 3rd and longs are being converted.

My concern with his playcalling is the predictability. When they blitz, it is almost always Barber (mostly), Foster, and David (the least of the three). Biggers' blitz today worked because of the unpredictabily. Maybe they don't scheme overy exotic because of all the youth. However, if you are having problems rushing the passer, please don't send three rushers, unless you are playing Brady Quinn.

However, since he wasn't Schiano's first choice, we'll see how much confidence is there. I don't think Schiano will treat his coaching staff much like his depth chart, if he feels you are not doing the job out you go. Belichick has done the same thing in New England with his staff.
I think he has done a solid job. You are 100% right on all your points you've made. A lot of Giants fans were very critical on his play-calling too so you might have something here. I personally, think he should get another year with a better secondary. We have so many UDFA's and late round picks going up against some of the best WR's in the NFL - its kinda hard to disguise such liabilities in a pass first league. At the same time though, the CB technique is all wrong. I don't get why we come up all close to the line of scrimmage to the WR's and don't even attempt to re-route them? Or better yet today, 3rd down on the Falcons last drive...We have Gorrer playing Roddy White with OUTSIDE positioning???? You gotta tell your CB's to take away the quick slant and force the more difficult BACK shoulder throw! McCoy was very close to batting that ball down but that was a very critical play in the game. Rewind in the first QTR on 3rd and 4, why the hell did Le'Quan Lewis play so off on Jones? Julio Jones ran a quick hitch and turned it into a first down. How Sherdian plays the DB's - is unacceptable. Makes them look worse then they actually are. I guess ever since the Giants game when Talib tried to bump-n-run, re-routing is clearly out the window........


If we can get a clear upgrade at DC, I'm all for it(a guy with a good track record)



Agree, the CB coverage is line-up near the line of scrimmage and hope to run next to the WR. It just seems like schematically at critical times during the game, the defense isn't taking away the easier throw. The slant against Gorrer was a perfect example. If they beat you over the top, so be it, the throw is a lower percentage throw.

For me, if a team coverts over 50 % of their third downs and most of them are 3+, the DC has to come into question. My concern is as much as we see the offense evolving, I don't see the same evolution on defense. There is more game tape on this defense now and my fear is there are way too many tendancies being repeated making it easier for an offense to be effective against this defense. In my opinion, the blitz packages are very predictable about which personnel will be blitzing and during which down and distance.
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Caaddy24


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez I'm sick of these threads we have after a few games or half way through the season of "fire so and so". Sheridan has done a pretty good job for what he has to work with. And we're #1 in rushing defense for crying out loud! Remember how horrible we have been the last few years?? We're not just gonna jump from the worst defense in the NFL last year to top 5 in one year. We have improved significantly from last year even if we're last in pass defense.

I wouldn't expect this from you ravishingone
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
Jeez I'm sick of these threads we have after a few games or half way through the season of "fire so and so". Sheridan has done a pretty good job for what he has to work with. And we're #1 in rushing defense for crying out loud! Remember how horrible we have been the last few years?? We're not just gonna jump from the worst defense in the NFL last year to top 5 in one year. We have improved significantly from last year even if we're last in pass defense.

I wouldn't expect this from you ravishingone


I think it is a fair point of discussion, I respect your opinion thinking it is knee jerk. I would agree there has been improvement. However, to not question the job of Sheridan is not out of line. As has been mentioned before, he made it only one year with Giants and Coughlin before he was canned. Why? There is really only speculation, but playcalling was a concern. Second, and probably more important, the hiring of the Schiano's coaching staff had a very shallow pool to choose from because he was hired so late a lot of assistants already took other jobs or were blocked by other teams to interview.

However, I think he has done a good job in certain areas (tackling, rush defense) and obviously not so great in pass defense. As a whole this team has exceeded my expectations.
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