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Carson Palmer going forward
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15105
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


i can agree with the bold.

imhvo we dont know how the team will look/play/perform without cp so to put 2-4 is kinda idk...

if you asked people would the raiders be better with jc or cp qb'ing only a select few would answer jc. but in real life jc had the better record.


Its not comparable; the teams were completely different. This is beyond blatantly obvious.


my bad i thought cp took over the exact same team jc got injured with lol


You're ridiculous dude. How the hell is a guy supposed to come in after half a year of no football to pick up a new offense? And it wasn't even the same team then because McFadden was hurt.


ill leave that one alone Laughing
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15105
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I think the better way to put it is, we can compete w/ Palmer but we can't compete w/ Pryor.

If our defense seems to get it and we can somehow play half as better, we're a 7 win team. Again, we're not as far off on offense to be able to compete.


No. Raiders are not competing for anything. They don't have the talent or depth to compete regardless of the QB.

IMO, Denver is the class of the division. KC got better so far this offseason and SD is a better team right now.

Unless the Raiders do some serious offseason work and hit on some draft picks, they are the 4th place team in the division and only SD will challenge for them but they are far more talented.


That's fine you feel that way but I disagree on offense. We have plenty of above average talent at the WR position and it's very young and IMO, only going to get better. We have a QB who is more than capable of running the offense. We have a (hopefully in the new scheme) premiere back albeit not the entire season. We have holes at TE and a couple parts of the offensive line. We have a new OC and a great line coach. I think the offense will improve.

Defense on the other hand.....

If somehow, someway, they can do well improving that side of the ball, we're potentially an 8 win team. While that might not compete for a playoff spot, it's still a competitive team. We'll lose some games we're not supposed to and vice-versa. We're not going to know a whole lot for another month and a half though so it's all speculation. There is one thing that is not though and that is us being a better team w/ Pryor instead Palmer.


26th in points scored and 28 in points allowed.

i think its safe to say they both sucked equally Laughing
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12328
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I think the better way to put it is, we can compete w/ Palmer but we can't compete w/ Pryor.

If our defense seems to get it and we can somehow play half as better, we're a 7 win team. Again, we're not as far off on offense to be able to compete.


No. Raiders are not competing for anything. They don't have the talent or depth to compete regardless of the QB.

IMO, Denver is the class of the division. KC got better so far this offseason and SD is a better team right now.

Unless the Raiders do some serious offseason work and hit on some draft picks, they are the 4th place team in the division and only SD will challenge for them but they are far more talented.


That's fine you feel that way but I disagree on offense. We have plenty of above average talent at the WR position and it's very young and IMO, only going to get better. We have a QB who is more than capable of running the offense. We have a (hopefully in the new scheme) premiere back albeit not the entire season. We have holes at TE and a couple parts of the offensive line. We have a new OC and a great line coach. I think the offense will improve.

Defense on the other hand.....

If somehow, someway, they can do well improving that side of the ball, we're potentially an 8 win team. While that might not compete for a playoff spot, it's still a competitive team. We'll lose some games we're not supposed to and vice-versa. We're not going to know a whole lot for another month and a half though so it's all speculation. There is one thing that is not though and that is us being a better team w/ Pryor instead Palmer.


26th in points scored and 28 in points allowed.

i think its safe to say they both sucked equally Laughing


Cool story. Glad to see you still don't understand after 25 people have tried to explain it to you like 143 times a piece. Keep being naive.

"Jones >>>>>>>>> Moore >>>>>>>>>> Clowney" right?? LOL
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4805
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikings have picked up Cassel, Cards have picked up Stanton, has Reggie got Carson in a position that he will take a pay cut now as there isn't a lot of options left for him were we to cut him?
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 1987
Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I think the better way to put it is, we can compete w/ Palmer but we can't compete w/ Pryor.

If our defense seems to get it and we can somehow play half as better, we're a 7 win team. Again, we're not as far off on offense to be able to compete.


No. Raiders are not competing for anything. They don't have the talent or depth to compete regardless of the QB.

IMO, Denver is the class of the division. KC got better so far this offseason and SD is a better team right now.

Unless the Raiders do some serious offseason work and hit on some draft picks, they are the 4th place team in the division and only SD will challenge for them but they are far more talented.


That's fine you feel that way but I disagree on offense. We have plenty of above average talent at the WR position and it's very young and IMO, only going to get better. We have a QB who is more than capable of running the offense. We have a (hopefully in the new scheme) premiere back albeit not the entire season. We have holes at TE and a couple parts of the offensive line. We have a new OC and a great line coach. I think the offense will improve.

Defense on the other hand.....

If somehow, someway, they can do well improving that side of the ball, we're potentially an 8 win team. While that might not compete for a playoff spot, it's still a competitive team. We'll lose some games we're not supposed to and vice-versa. We're not going to know a whole lot for another month and a half though so it's all speculation. There is one thing that is not though and that is us being a better team w/ Pryor instead Palmer.


26th in points scored and 28 in points allowed.

i think its safe to say they both sucked equally Laughing


Cool story. Glad to see you still don't understand after 25 people have tried to explain it to you like 143 times a piece. Keep being naive.

"Jones >>>>>>>>> Moore >>>>>>>>>> Clowney" right?? LOL

^^^^ what thread is that being discussed in Laughing
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JonesDrew32 wrote:
38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4461
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a Palmer-Pryor 1-2 punch this season.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/allen-qb-position-palmers-lose
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Tamby


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 77
Location: NY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People also need to realize we are moving back to the Hue Jackson-type offense which is better suited for Palmer than Knapp's offense was. I don't understand the hate for Palmer, if it weren't for him we'd have won 2 games at most last year.
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raiderfan19


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 3017
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tamby wrote:
People also need to realize we are moving back to the Hue Jackson-type offense which is better suited for Palmer than Knapp's offense was. I don't understand the hate for Palmer, if it weren't for him we'd have won 2 games at most last year.
It's all about money in my opinion. Dude is worth like 5-7 not 15.
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HvacRaider


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Elsinore
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raiderfan19 wrote:
Tamby wrote:
People also need to realize we are moving back to the Hue Jackson-type offense which is better suited for Palmer than Knapp's offense was. I don't understand the hate for Palmer, if it weren't for him we'd have won 2 games at most last year.
It's all about money in my opinion. Dude is worth like 5-7 not 15.


We only won 4 games and 3 were against the jaguars and chiefs!! The only
Teams that pick before us! So Palmer and his huge
Contract got us one win over a team that had a better record then we did!
LOL Palmer is a good QB but he hasn't won anything and with
Our roster and all our opinions then he won't be winning much this year!
So roll PRYOR out there and we can more than likely win 2-3 games on his
Athletic ability alone and he will be a lot cheaper!
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 4120
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Looks like a Palmer-Pryor 1-2 punch this season.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/allen-qb-position-palmers-lose
Ok so that's its. Nothing more to talk about. Twisted Evil
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6234
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HvacRaider wrote:
raiderfan19 wrote:
Tamby wrote:
People also need to realize we are moving back to the Hue Jackson-type offense which is better suited for Palmer than Knapp's offense was. I don't understand the hate for Palmer, if it weren't for him we'd have won 2 games at most last year.
It's all about money in my opinion. Dude is worth like 5-7 not 15.


We only won 4 games and 3 were against the jaguars and chiefs!! The only
Teams that pick before us! So Palmer and his huge
Contract got us one win over a team that had a better record then we did!
LOL Palmer is a good QB but he hasn't won anything and with
Our roster and all our opinions then he won't be winning much this year!
So roll PRYOR out there and we can more than likely win 2-3 games on his
Athletic ability alone and he will be a lot cheaper!


McKenzie obviously has a plan. Of course he would like Palmer to take a pay cut but perhaps outright cutting Palmer involves the Raiders taking on more dead money in 2014 than he would like and cutting him would force unwelcome contingency plans. Perhaps this is where Palmer's leverage lies as I am confident 2013 is Palmer's last in Oakland and he can see the writing on the wall. Maybe there is a specific anticipated FA in 2014 that McKenzie wants to go after? Maybe McKenzie would have guarantee more money to TK and keep him longer than he wants if he has to cut Palmer? Who knows. The point is there are many more factors at work than just "Why isn't such and such cut yet?" and more at stake than Palmer's compensation. Right now McKenzie is trying to consider all his outs including possibly paying Palmer what he wants and TK and MClain aren't going anywhere until McKenzie knows the repercussions of his actions. Let's stop asking "when, when,when" and let the man do his work.

McKenzie may have to pay more in the short term than he would like to get where he wants to go. I'm shocked how EVERYONE has played along by willingly extending into voidable years or by force via suspension. Palmer is basically the only player with leverage. Palmer hasn't become a roadblock yet but he is suggesting that he could deploy the little leverage he has.

I'm actually anxious to see how this standoff plays out but while we are thinking March McKenzie is thinking FA 2015.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14416
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
perhaps outright cutting Palmer involves the Raiders taking on more dead money in 2014 than he would like and cutting him would force unwelcome contingency plans. Perhaps this is where Palmer's leverage lies as I am confident 2013 is Palmer's last in Oakland and he can see the writing on the wall.


The only way any dead money would be left in 2014 is a post june 1st designation and the dead money would be the same if he's cut next year. We have 60M in cap room anyway so dead money won't be an issue.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 34092
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an idea: maybe they just want to keep him?
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10109
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Here's an idea: maybe they just want to keep him?


Think Shhh Idea
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14416
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Here's an idea: maybe they just want to keep him?


Ain't that the problem?
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