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Carson Palmer going forward
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5491
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


+1

and pleased to be starting Pryor and getting those 2 wins! Thank you.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that team (read: Starters) has potential and COULD win but it's the DEPTH at every position that stinks. Injuries are a part of the game and that's where the Raiders come apart.
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Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good move for the future of the team, terrible move for my sanity when reading this thread next season.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21142
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


Some people believe otherwise. I agree with you though.
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


Some people believe otherwise. I agree with you though.



+1, although if we magically managed to stay healthy i could see us winning 8.

the d was starting to click at the end of the year, which gives me faith in tarvers scheme... and the offense will be much better just with knapp gone... maybe not in points but in TOP which will help the D a lot
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


Some people believe otherwise. I agree with you though.



+1, although if we magically managed to stay healthy i could see us winning 8.

the d was starting to click at the end of the year, which gives me faith in tarvers scheme... and the offense will be much better just with knapp gone... maybe not in points but in TOP which will help the D a lot
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the better way to put it is, we can compete w/ Palmer but we can't compete w/ Pryor.

If our defense seems to get it and we can somehow play half as better, we're a 7 win team. Again, we're not as far off on offense to be able to compete.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dessie wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
i like Palmer a lot, but i dont think we are going anywhere with him this season, so why not give the keys to the young guy and see what he's got?


The problem would be that if he fails and fails badly, Allen will be out of a job.


if olson doesnt pan out then DA and reg maybe out of a job.


Exactly the Qb is going to be key to their longevity. Reggie will be here but if we finish with 2-4 wins DA will be out. That's why talk of tanking the season is nonsense.


idk ive heard about the mike holmgren rumors...some how call me crazy but i think the reg had more to do with the olson hiring than DA. I understand giving reg some time but i thought we were trying to avoid this revolving door of coaches. if olson fails then gets the boot it will be just like old times and all this "change cause AL is gone" wont have the same significance.


Very much doubt Reggie had anything to do with Olson as he didn't with Knapp, but should Olson fail then Allen will fall and Allen knows it. OC and DC's change all the time, the revolving door is about HCs not sure why you would try and link that.


thats what im saying if olson fails then allen will get the boot and that would mean 3new oc's and 2new hc in a 3 yr span. kinda just like the "AL" days.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14580
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


i can agree with the bold.

imhvo we dont know how the team will look/play/perform without cp so to put 2-4 is kinda idk...

if you asked people would the raiders be better with jc or cp qb'ing only a select few would answer jc. but in real life jc had the better record.
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NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32200
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


i can agree with the bold.

imhvo we dont know how the team will look/play/perform without cp so to put 2-4 is kinda idk...

if you asked people would the raiders be better with jc or cp qb'ing only a select few would answer jc. but in real life jc had the better record.


Its not comparable; the teams were completely different. This is beyond blatantly obvious.
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the sunk cost fallacy?

Loss aversion?
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22112
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I think the better way to put it is, we can compete w/ Palmer but we can't compete w/ Pryor.

If our defense seems to get it and we can somehow play half as better, we're a 7 win team. Again, we're not as far off on offense to be able to compete.


No. Raiders are not competing for anything. They don't have the talent or depth to compete regardless of the QB.

IMO, Denver is the class of the division. KC got better so far this offseason and SD is a better team right now.

Unless the Raiders do some serious offseason work and hit on some draft picks, they are the 4th place team in the division and only SD will challenge for them but they are far more talented.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


i can agree with the bold.

imhvo we dont know how the team will look/play/perform without cp so to put 2-4 is kinda idk...

if you asked people would the raiders be better with jc or cp qb'ing only a select few would answer jc. but in real life jc had the better record.


Its not comparable; the teams were completely different. This is beyond blatantly obvious.


my bad i thought cp took over the exact same team jc got injured with lol
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NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32200
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raiders are a 5-6 win team w/ Palmer. A 2-4 win team without him.

The roster sucks. The depth is still lacking and there just isn't anything to do about it.

Going to be another long year in Oakland. Fans (you know the ones) will be calling for RM and DA to be fired, but it's just dumb.

This is a 4 year rebuilding. If anyone thought differently, they were sorely mistaken.


i can agree with the bold.

imhvo we dont know how the team will look/play/perform without cp so to put 2-4 is kinda idk...

if you asked people would the raiders be better with jc or cp qb'ing only a select few would answer jc. but in real life jc had the better record.


Its not comparable; the teams were completely different. This is beyond blatantly obvious.


my bad i thought cp took over the exact same team jc got injured with lol


You're ridiculous dude. How the hell is a guy supposed to come in after half a year of no football to pick up a new offense? And it wasn't even the same team then because McFadden was hurt.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
i like Palmer a lot, but i dont think we are going anywhere with him this season, so why not give the keys to the young guy and see what he's got?


The problem would be that if he fails and fails badly, Allen will be out of a job.


I don't think that's entirely true...I feel Mark Davis is all in with the RMC/DA regime, and as long as our defense improves, we show growth overall and we are a franchise QB away from being competitive than I think he gets another year...
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11603
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I think the better way to put it is, we can compete w/ Palmer but we can't compete w/ Pryor.

If our defense seems to get it and we can somehow play half as better, we're a 7 win team. Again, we're not as far off on offense to be able to compete.


No. Raiders are not competing for anything. They don't have the talent or depth to compete regardless of the QB.

IMO, Denver is the class of the division. KC got better so far this offseason and SD is a better team right now.

Unless the Raiders do some serious offseason work and hit on some draft picks, they are the 4th place team in the division and only SD will challenge for them but they are far more talented.


That's fine you feel that way but I disagree on offense. We have plenty of above average talent at the WR position and it's very young and IMO, only going to get better. We have a QB who is more than capable of running the offense. We have a (hopefully in the new scheme) premiere back albeit not the entire season. We have holes at TE and a couple parts of the offensive line. We have a new OC and a great line coach. I think the offense will improve.

Defense on the other hand.....

If somehow, someway, they can do well improving that side of the ball, we're potentially an 8 win team. While that might not compete for a playoff spot, it's still a competitive team. We'll lose some games we're not supposed to and vice-versa. We're not going to know a whole lot for another month and a half though so it's all speculation. There is one thing that is not though and that is us being a better team w/ Pryor instead Palmer.
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