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Carson Palmer going forward
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33524
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I want to ask a question, and would love an answer on it.

This is a defense on pace for record points allowed, franchise record lowest sacks, a defense which has not scored a point this year and has given up 169 points in the last 4 games.

My question is, will cutting anyone tomorrow on this defense really make it much worse? Such as Kelly or Seymour, or Huff?

And the second part of that question - will we be a worse team right now if we released Palmer tomorrow?

Do me a favor and honor me by giving a straight answer, anyone who wishes to.


I don't get your hate on Huff. He's our best CB right now, so yes, cutting him would make it much worse. Same goes for Palmer. Him, Myers and Reece are our only players on Offense who came to play this season.

Only thing I can think of for either is $$$


No dude, it wouldn't make it worse. Yes, he is our best CB. But try to realize here, in 60 minutes your opponent can only score so many points. I think 34, 55, 42 can't get much worse. So yes, he's our best CB. But none of our CBs could start for anyone, so the fact that he is our best doesn't even matter. It's a terrible unit. Do we hang on to a guy because he's our best even though by all normal standards he's really inconsistent and average to below average?

Cutting him would not make it much worse. It wouldn't add 10 minutes to the clock in which the opponent could score 10 more points.

My hate on Huff is that while he's collected a premier player's salary for 8 years, he has never performed up to it by any means. He's not a very good player, he's a holdover from a losing era and a part of it, and he's not going to develop into any more of a player than he is now.

You think Huff has equalled Reece and Myers in the stepping up department?! In what way? 2 INTs, thrown to him? He mixes getting torched and making a play every week. I appreciate the bullet he took for us by moving to CB, but would not call him a guy who came to play.. by any means.
Woodson switches between S and CB. He's a great player. Huff is a pile who manages to do both inadequately.


Jesus. Is there any pleasing you? Yes, Huff HAS equaled them in that department. He changed position midseason and is now our best player at the new spot. Better than the FA's we signed to start and any of the other FA's we signed since. Dude held his own against AJ Green and Atlanta. That alone is pretty impressive. Especially since he isn't Charles Woodson. Getting rid of him would only create more holes on our roster that we can't afford to fix
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5772
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I want to ask a question, and would love an answer on it.

This is a defense on pace for record points allowed, franchise record lowest sacks, a defense which has not scored a point this year and has given up 169 points in the last 4 games.

My question is, will cutting anyone tomorrow on this defense really make it much worse? Such as Kelly or Seymour, or Huff?

And the second part of that question - will we be a worse team right now if we released Palmer tomorrow?

Do me a favor and honor me by giving a straight answer, anyone who wishes to.


I don't get your hate on Huff. He's our best CB right now, so yes, cutting him would make it much worse. Same goes for Palmer. Him, Myers and Reece are our only players on Offense who came to play this season.

Only thing I can think of for either is $$$


No dude, it wouldn't make it worse. Yes, he is our best CB. But try to realize here, in 60 minutes your opponent can only score so many points. I think 34, 55, 42 can't get much worse. So yes, he's our best CB. But none of our CBs could start for anyone, so the fact that he is our best doesn't even matter. It's a terrible unit. Do we hang on to a guy because he's our best even though by all normal standards he's really inconsistent and average to below average?

Cutting him would not make it much worse. It wouldn't add 10 minutes to the clock in which the opponent could score 10 more points.

My hate on Huff is that while he's collected a premier player's salary for 8 years, he has never performed up to it by any means. He's not a very good player, he's a holdover from a losing era and a part of it, and he's not going to develop into any more of a player than he is now.

You think Huff has equalled Reece and Myers in the stepping up department?! In what way? 2 INTs, thrown to him? He mixes getting torched and making a play every week. I appreciate the bullet he took for us by moving to CB, but would not call him a guy who came to play.. by any means.
Woodson switches between S and CB. He's a great player. Huff is a pile who manages to do both inadequately.


Jesus. Is there any pleasing you? Yes, Huff HAS equaled them in that department. He changed position midseason and is now our best player at the new spot. Better than the FA's we signed to start and any of the other FA's we signed since. Dude held his own against AJ Green and Atlanta. That alone is pretty impressive. Especially since he isn't Charles Woodson. Getting rid of him would only create more holes on our roster that we can't afford to fix


This I will gladly give credence to. But I think a guy like Pat Lee could do just the same as Huff. And if you can sign one Pat Lee in midseason, you can sign one in the offseason. Huff is not irreplaceable by any means. But also not the biggest defensive issue.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33524
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I want to ask a question, and would love an answer on it.

This is a defense on pace for record points allowed, franchise record lowest sacks, a defense which has not scored a point this year and has given up 169 points in the last 4 games.

My question is, will cutting anyone tomorrow on this defense really make it much worse? Such as Kelly or Seymour, or Huff?

And the second part of that question - will we be a worse team right now if we released Palmer tomorrow?

Do me a favor and honor me by giving a straight answer, anyone who wishes to.


I don't get your hate on Huff. He's our best CB right now, so yes, cutting him would make it much worse. Same goes for Palmer. Him, Myers and Reece are our only players on Offense who came to play this season.

Only thing I can think of for either is $$$


No dude, it wouldn't make it worse. Yes, he is our best CB. But try to realize here, in 60 minutes your opponent can only score so many points. I think 34, 55, 42 can't get much worse. So yes, he's our best CB. But none of our CBs could start for anyone, so the fact that he is our best doesn't even matter. It's a terrible unit. Do we hang on to a guy because he's our best even though by all normal standards he's really inconsistent and average to below average?

Cutting him would not make it much worse. It wouldn't add 10 minutes to the clock in which the opponent could score 10 more points.

My hate on Huff is that while he's collected a premier player's salary for 8 years, he has never performed up to it by any means. He's not a very good player, he's a holdover from a losing era and a part of it, and he's not going to develop into any more of a player than he is now.

You think Huff has equalled Reece and Myers in the stepping up department?! In what way? 2 INTs, thrown to him? He mixes getting torched and making a play every week. I appreciate the bullet he took for us by moving to CB, but would not call him a guy who came to play.. by any means.
Woodson switches between S and CB. He's a great player. Huff is a pile who manages to do both inadequately.


Jesus. Is there any pleasing you? Yes, Huff HAS equaled them in that department. He changed position midseason and is now our best player at the new spot. Better than the FA's we signed to start and any of the other FA's we signed since. Dude held his own against AJ Green and Atlanta. That alone is pretty impressive. Especially since he isn't Charles Woodson. Getting rid of him would only create more holes on our roster that we can't afford to fix


This I will gladly give credence to. But I think a guy like Pat Lee could do just the same as Huff. And if you can sign one Pat Lee in midseason, you can sign one in the offseason. Huff is not irreplaceable by any means. But also not the biggest defensive issue.


That isn't what you said though, which was what I disagreed with. You said:

Quote:
My question is, will cutting anyone tomorrow on this defense really make it much worse? Such as Kelly or Seymour, or Huff?


We've gotten even worse without Pat Lee, who you equate Huff to (Which I disagree with but that's not the point. Not that Huff is that much better). Bartell couldn't cover a kitten with a blanket half the time and neither can our other CBs excluding Hanson. And even he is shaky on the outside.

I didn't say Huff is irreplaceable, but I did imply he isn't expendable. Which I still stand by.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5772
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I want to ask a question, and would love an answer on it.

This is a defense on pace for record points allowed, franchise record lowest sacks, a defense which has not scored a point this year and has given up 169 points in the last 4 games.

My question is, will cutting anyone tomorrow on this defense really make it much worse? Such as Kelly or Seymour, or Huff?

And the second part of that question - will we be a worse team right now if we released Palmer tomorrow?

Do me a favor and honor me by giving a straight answer, anyone who wishes to.


I don't get your hate on Huff. He's our best CB right now, so yes, cutting him would make it much worse. Same goes for Palmer. Him, Myers and Reece are our only players on Offense who came to play this season.

Only thing I can think of for either is $$$


No dude, it wouldn't make it worse. Yes, he is our best CB. But try to realize here, in 60 minutes your opponent can only score so many points. I think 34, 55, 42 can't get much worse. So yes, he's our best CB. But none of our CBs could start for anyone, so the fact that he is our best doesn't even matter. It's a terrible unit. Do we hang on to a guy because he's our best even though by all normal standards he's really inconsistent and average to below average?

Cutting him would not make it much worse. It wouldn't add 10 minutes to the clock in which the opponent could score 10 more points.

My hate on Huff is that while he's collected a premier player's salary for 8 years, he has never performed up to it by any means. He's not a very good player, he's a holdover from a losing era and a part of it, and he's not going to develop into any more of a player than he is now.

You think Huff has equalled Reece and Myers in the stepping up department?! In what way? 2 INTs, thrown to him? He mixes getting torched and making a play every week. I appreciate the bullet he took for us by moving to CB, but would not call him a guy who came to play.. by any means.
Woodson switches between S and CB. He's a great player. Huff is a pile who manages to do both inadequately.


Jesus. Is there any pleasing you? Yes, Huff HAS equaled them in that department. He changed position midseason and is now our best player at the new spot. Better than the FA's we signed to start and any of the other FA's we signed since. Dude held his own against AJ Green and Atlanta. That alone is pretty impressive. Especially since he isn't Charles Woodson. Getting rid of him would only create more holes on our roster that we can't afford to fix


This I will gladly give credence to. But I think a guy like Pat Lee could do just the same as Huff. And if you can sign one Pat Lee in midseason, you can sign one in the offseason. Huff is not irreplaceable by any means. But also not the biggest defensive issue.


That isn't what you said though, which was what I disagreed with. You said:

Quote:
My question is, will cutting anyone tomorrow on this defense really make it much worse? Such as Kelly or Seymour, or Huff?


We've gotten even worse without Pat Lee, who you equate Huff to (Which I disagree with but that's not the point. Not that Huff is that much better). Bartell couldn't cover a kitten with a blanket half the time and neither can our other CBs excluding Hanson. And even he is shaky on the outside.

I didn't say Huff is irreplaceable, but I did imply he isn't expendable. Which I still stand by.


Well, I don't really think what I said and what you said can't both be right.

I said it wouldn't make the defense much worse, I still don't think it will.

You said it would create more holes and isn't necessary, which is fine.

I think that while making extra work by cutting him doesn't make a ton of sense, he is expendable. If you can sign a guy like Pat Lee to do a similar job, there will be plenty of opportunities to sign others just like that. Huff may not be the biggest problem, and may be of use, but he certainly won't elevate the D beyond where it is right now, which is right down at the bottom of all time history...
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just like CP is not responsible for giving up 34, the d isnt for CP only putting 10 on the board.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets not even talk about Huff. The problem lies in Kelly. Immature and so overpaid. Getting ejected for coming off the bench and fighting is inexcusable and should be the last straw. Guy was never any better than Gerrard Warren in the middle.

Just put Bilukidi in to see what he's got and show why he deserved to make the 53 msn roster after not doing much in preseason.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5772
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Just like CP is not responsible for giving up 34, the d isnt for CP only putting 10 on the board.


Fair enough. But the offensive performance isn't about to become one of the worst in league history, and didn't just have the second worst defensive month ever.

And the defense hasn't contributed one single point yet. Bears O looks 56 points better than it really is because of special teams and defense.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
Lets not even talk about Huff. The problem lies in Kelly. Immature and so overpaid. Getting ejected for coming off the bench and fighting is inexcusable and should be the last straw. Guy was never any better than Gerrard Warren in the middle.

Just put Bilukidi in to see what he's got and show why he deserved to make the 53 msn roster after not doing much in preseason.

Good points, but it's way deeper than Kelly. There's not one easy scapegoat for such a bad overall defensive performance. More like scapegoating 7 starters and 4 backups.
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Raiiiiidersssss


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you think we could get a 3rd for palmer?
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Lets not even talk about Huff. The problem lies in Kelly. Immature and so overpaid. Getting ejected for coming off the bench and fighting is inexcusable and should be the last straw. Guy was never any better than Gerrard Warren in the middle.

Just put Bilukidi in to see what he's got and show why he deserved to make the 53 msn roster after not doing much in preseason.

Good points, but it's way deeper than Kelly. There's not one easy scapegoat for such a bad overall defensive performance. More like scapegoating 7 starters and 4 backups.


Oh I know that. I think Kelly should be one of the first shown the door. I would gladly take Dorsey over this clown. Guys like Houston, Bryant and Shaugnessy are rotational guys that we could keep around. Burris is developing slowly but he's done what's been asked for the most part. Huffs versatility might keep him around but other than that everybody can/should be replaced. Our past draft classes look so terrible now.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Cutting anyone from the defense is not going to impact anything happening on the field to a significant degree, because like I said worse is barely possible here.


I thought it would be impossible to be worse than last year's D. It's happening right now.

I don't care about any of the players on this team anymore, so obviously any of the D players as well. But if we were to release most of them, we wouldn't find upgrades at every position this offseason. We could improve on D if we get our hands on a pass rushing threat which we badly lack right now but improving the overall talent is gonna take some time.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Just like CP is not responsible for giving up 34, the d isnt for CP only putting 10 on the board.


Fair enough..


Not really. We're comparing one whole UNIT to one whole PERSON.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Bartell couldn't cover a kitten with a blanket half the time.


Totally disagree... have you ever even tried to cover a kitten with a blanket? Its actually quite difficult. They are much more agile than you think, plus you don't want to hurt them so you have to be gentle.
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Dat Raider


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Just like CP is not responsible for giving up 34, the d isnt for CP only putting 10 on the board.


Fair enough..


Not really. We're comparing one whole UNIT to one whole PERSON.


You just plagiarised my thoughts Tagg.
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Burgesskills


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's okay you guys make all the excuses for the guy. Want to say he's not respnsble for the losses, yet he is the QB and he is not putting points on the board, fair enough make that excuse.

Then you make an excuse for him not putting points on the board. He is the only offensive player on the team that touches the ball every offensive snap, unless we run a wild cat play. He is not scroing points.

Believe me it sucks our defense/special teams hasn't put points on the board either, but CP is not winning us any games either.

Palmer is just av average QB. We could an average QB in free agency or in the draft.

Palooka going back to what you said earlier, this team is in rebuild mode.
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