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Carson Palmer going forward
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6747
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Django wrote:
dawsonleery wrote:
I would only want Tyler Wilson, he has moxy. He's a vocal leader. Besides Cobi Hamilton, Arkansas isn't a very talented team very similar to Cutler at Vanderbilt.


Tyler Wilson = Chad Henne 2.0

Calling it now.


Who the hell are you and what are you doing inside my head? That's exactly who I was thinking of when watching him on Friday. Weird.
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Carson would take a pay cut? Aside from maybe the Jets, Chiefs, and Cardinals, what other teams would realistically sign him to start?
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Professor Oak


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This team needs a QB, but not immediately.

I'd rather us build in all other areas of the team to create a strong foundation before we give a young guy the reins. I don't want to go through what we had to go through a few years ago again.

With that said, if there's a guy who the FO thinks has the tools/potential, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of drafting one either. Whoever it is though, would have to sit for a little.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
Very, very few QBs will succeed behind this offensive line and none will be able to succeed w/ that in consideration as well as our defense being a mess. Carson is making too much money but why add another need when there isn't one right now?

That notion does not make sense to me. There are more people who can be cut who are making entirely too much money (Branch, Seymour, Kelly etc). Say goodbye to them well before we say goodbye to Carson.


We could pay someone a lot less and get the same results. We aren't winning these games with our 13 million dollar QB and we could still surely lose while paying someone else a lot less. If we use that money to build the trenches and solidify the O-line and D-lines, then maybe a QB we pay a lot less will lead us to more wins, even if he struggles at times.

It makes no sense to me how you are okay with paying a starting QB so much money, who is surely playing in the twilight of his career and we're getting no results.


You are failing to see the point again. At this moment in time, this is the last time I am going to try to get this through your head, after that, you're on your own. Good luck.

Why create an extra need?? You, even though your bias is as large as possible, have to realize that when Carson has had time to throw the football and make accurate decisions, he has been a pretty good QB. There is NO BETTER QB out there via FA or the draft. Palmer is making too much money but getting rid of him is mailing next year in already. You can list every QB available next season and Carson is better. Someone has already done it. We get rid of Carson, we create a need.

You know where else we can get money?? Tyvon Branch has been playing like a substitute and he's going to make 10 mill next year. Where's your constant pissing and moaning about him? What about Tommy Kelly and his cap hit next year? Why don't you whine and cry about that? Richard Seymour? He's not carrying the weight. That's THREE valuable people in run support and two in the trenches, which you admit we need to rebuild. You need to focus your attention on other areas of the team instead of letting your incredible bias for Palmer feed your posts. It makes you look very stupid.

It makes no sense to me how you are okay with paying a couple starting DTs so much money, who are surely playing in the twilight of their careers and we're getting no results.

Seymour is due 7.5 mill next season
Kelly 6.5 mill.

That's more than Carson is making. Add in Branch's 10 mill and there is a HUGE portion of our problem. 24 million over people who are NOT producing even the slightest bit close to Carson this season. You act like Carson is giving up 35 points a game.... derp.

I hope you understand everything I just read and actually listen.

Good luck!!
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
I know people like to focus on Carson because he's the Qb, but he is the least of my worries. He will be at least solid for the next 2-3 years.i don't care what anyone says DHB is not a starting quality wr in this league and Gregg knapp is a horrible OC. Fix that and fix the defense.


Hello voice of reason, thanks for understanding!!
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want no QB out of this draft. We have soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many more needs than QB.
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Last edited by JTagg7754 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
If mot I can see the team using a stop gap like Alex Smith for a few years. A game manager instead of a guy that still fancies himself as a franchise guy. We have to improve up front and in the secondary. Once we have the talent the LAST thing to trot out there is a young QB.


I hope that's what we do. We want to be a run oriented, defensive minded team. Go with a different, cheaper QB and use the resources to build the identity of this team.


We haven't agreed much lately but on this one we are on the same page.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nodisrespect wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Unless we sign a free agent to take over Carson will be back. Maybe at a reduced salary. If mot I can see the team using a stop gap like Alex Smith for a few years. A game manager instead of a guy that still fancies himself as a franchise guy. We have to improve up front and in the secondary. Once we have the talent the LAST thing to trot out there is a young QB.
Plenty of crappy teams, put new QB's on the field this year, and they all look better than us.



Colts
Redskins
Dolphins
Browns

All have plenty of holes and all look better than we do.


And we aren't close to those teams in talent across the board. We are a year or 2 away from being able to put a rookie QB in charge of this team. He would get killed behing our OL right now.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Unless we sign a free agent to take over Carson will be back. Maybe at a reduced salary. If mot I can see the team using a stop gap like Alex Smith for a few years. A game manager instead of a guy that still fancies himself as a franchise guy. We have to improve up front and in the secondary. Once we have the talent the LAST thing to trot out there is a young QB.
Plenty of crappy teams, put new QB's on the field this year, and they all look better than us.



Colts
Redskins
Dolphins
Browns

All have plenty of holes and all look better than we do.


And we aren't close to those teams in talent across the board. We are a year or 2 away from being able to put a rookie QB in charge of this team. He would get killed behing our OL right now.


What that person fails to realize is that there is roughly 40 million tied up in 6-7 players on our defense right now. Our defense that is giving up almost 40 points a game this month. One day their hatred for one player will not blind them from the actual problem....... meh, who am I kidding, no it won't.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
meh, who am I kidding, no it won't.


Hahahahahahaha!!!

Exactly. Just like my hatred of Giordano is blinding me I guess. Laughing
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
meh, who am I kidding, no it won't.


Hahahahahahaha!!!

Exactly. Just like my hatred of Giordano is blinding me I guess. Laughing


I've said Gio is trash and wouldn't be starting on many other teams since last season. Can't stand the guy. If he's making 10 cents, hes making too much.
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
If mot I can see the team using a stop gap like Alex Smith for a few years. A game manager instead of a guy that still fancies himself as a franchise guy. We have to improve up front and in the secondary. Once we have the talent the LAST thing to trot out there is a young QB.


I hope that's what we do. We want to be a run oriented, defensive minded team. Go with a different, cheaper QB and use the resources to build the identity of this team.


We haven't agreed much lately but on this one we are on the same page.

If we could trade Palmer for a mid rounder pick I would do it.
This team is not gonna win because of him (he is not that good), so it makes no sense to pay 16M to him.
If we can't trade him we should talk him into a new solid deal.

We really need to clear out these contracts...
Sey, Kelly, McClain...I see cut
CP, DMC I would like to see trade
DHB new deal
Huff. Branch, Brisiel restructure if needed
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:

It makes no sense to me how you are okay with paying a couple starting DTs so much money, who are surely playing in the twilight of their careers and we're getting no results.

Seymour is due 7.5 mill next season
Kelly 6.5 mill.

That's more than Carson is making. Add in Branch's 10 mill and there is a HUGE portion of our problem. 24 million over people who are NOT producing even the slightest bit close to Carson this season. You act like Carson is giving up 35 points a game.... derp.

I hope you understand everything I just read and actually listen.

Good luck!!


Who says he's ok with paying them that much? I don't know about burgess' opinion but i can tell you Seymour and Kelly are already gone in my mind.
The issue is what to do with Palmer and especially what to do with his huge salary. I know people are saying we should restructure him but restructuring is just pushing the same amount into later years. So basically creating more dead money for the future. I don't think it's worth it. Getting rid of Palmer now not only give us more cap room for the 2013 season, it does for the future years as well.
I've said in some other thread i'd be signing Matt Moore and trying to trade Palmer. I don't think Moore is a better QB than Palmer. I know he can be a decent stopgap and can play for us for a lot less than 16M though. I think we can win games with him if he's surrounded by a good running game and better D. I figure the cap hit differential between Palmer and Moore can help improve that running game or D.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nodisrespect wrote:
Plenty of crappy teams, put new QB's on the field this year, and they all look better than us.



Colts
Redskins
Dolphins
Browns

All have plenty of holes and all look better than we do.


What? Colts and Skins have elite rookie QBs with OC/HC's that are good at developing QBs, so saying that they did it doesnt mean anyone else can.

Miami has a top- 10 Defense and their "success" has little to do with their QB, who owns the 31st QB rating in the league with nearly twice as many picks as TDs.

Cleveland has the same record as us and the 32nd ranked QB in the league.

Luck and RGIII are playing great, but thats because they were elite, once-in-a-decade type prospects. Miami's and Cleveland's QBs are not playing well at all, so I'm not really sure what your point is.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

It makes no sense to me how you are okay with paying a couple starting DTs so much money, who are surely playing in the twilight of their careers and we're getting no results.

Seymour is due 7.5 mill next season
Kelly 6.5 mill.

That's more than Carson is making. Add in Branch's 10 mill and there is a HUGE portion of our problem. 24 million over people who are NOT producing even the slightest bit close to Carson this season. You act like Carson is giving up 35 points a game.... derp.

I hope you understand everything I just read and actually listen.

Good luck!!


Who says he's ok with paying them that much? I don't know about burgess' opinion but i can tell you Seymour and Kelly are already gone in my mind.
The issue is what to do with Palmer and especially what to do with his huge salary. I know people are saying we should restructure him but restructuring is just pushing the same amount into later years. So basically creating more dead money for the future. I don't think it's worth it. Getting rid of Palmer now not only give us more cap room for the 2013 season, it does for the future years as well.
I've said in some other thread i'd be signing Matt Moore and trying to trade Palmer. I don't think Moore is a better QB than Palmer. I know he can be a decent stopgap and can play for us for a lot less than 16M though. I think we can win games with him if he's surrounded by a good running game and better D. I figure the cap hit differential between Palmer and Moore can help improve that running game or D.


W/ the focal point of every money and problem situation being directed at Palmer and no one else, it leads me to believe he is OK w/ that or he really is as delusional as I facetiously say in almost every post.

I agree Palmer needs to restructure but if he does not, oh well, he's the best QB available. I used to buy into the Matt Moore hype but we would be 0-9 w/ him this year.... or 0-10 or whatever. Not relevant. He's a decent QB but no where on Carson's level then when you add in the inability to even aide our QB w/ pass protection or a running game, he'd be absolutely awful and I believe that's being nice. I agree we could win w/ those things surrounding him also, but we don't have that. BUT I do know that if we do have that or get that, Carson >> Moore. We have a chance w/ Carson and those things, not w/ Moore and those things.

Who or what could we even trade Carson for?? Again, I agree his salary is a problem but getting rid of him creates even MORE of a problem at the most crucial position on the field. We are essentially held hostage by Al's terrible work but we're getting out of it. Why not keep the good parts of the team and focus on the terrible parts of the team that obviously need the most attention?
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