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How many more consecutive loses can Allen survive?
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5297
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
as soon as mark davis said he wasnt sure if Allen even had the passion, it became a matter of time before someone said the raiders want gruden.

The guy is all passion. Mark Davis wants a passionate coach.




You dont have to be on the sideline all "rah-rah" or screaming in a player's face to be passionate. Mark Davis commented yesterday that he thinks Allen is passionate and intense, he just usually has a calm demeanor.

He clearly has a lot of room for improvement in a lot of areas. However, he is changing the discipline of this team and that is a decent start, considering how pitiful our roster and salary cap situation is. Lets see what he does with some decent players. I think with a good OC he could run this team well.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4994
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of bringing young talent to a team and developing it - is there an nfl coach who is as inept as Jon Gruden at it? I honestly don't think so. For a team who needs to develop talent through the draft I actually couldn't think of a worse head coach to put in charge than Gruden.
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BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3570
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
In terms of bringing young talent to a team and developing it - is there an nfl coach who is as inept as Jon Gruden at it? I honestly don't think so. For a team who needs to develop talent through the draft I actually couldn't think of a worse head coach to put in charge than Gruden.




Here is a list of players Gruden drafted and developed over the 4years he was in Oakland.
4 O -Linemen, 1TE, 1LB, 1DT, 2DE, 1WR, 1FB 1CB.
Here are the names.
Jon Ritchie, Doug Jolley, Jerry Porter, Barry Sims, Frank Middleton, Mo Collins, DeLawrence Grant, Tony Bryant
Phillip Buchanon, Roderick Coleman, Eric Barton,
Langston Walker.
They where all starters or rotation players on a Super Bowl team.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2623
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not sold with Gruden coming back to Oakland as HC. I feel like it would be a publicity move. Yeah everyone would get that nostalgic feeling seeing him on the sidelines, but I'm not sure he will succeed.


Why exactly?

I mean it's good for publicity sure, but the guy is a hell of a coach. He's the type Reggie should have went after this offseason. He's experienced and can dial up an offense. He knows how to get the most out of his players, which is what the Raiders need.

To me I think people would want him in place of Allen not because he's a good coach but because he reminds everyone of our Super Bowl run. Honestly I don't think he would be better than Allen because honestly we have no idea what Allen is. Personally I think Gruden will be there next year if DA doesn't work out.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 21731
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Raidin wrote:
In terms of bringing young talent to a team and developing it - is there an nfl coach who is as inept as Jon Gruden at it? I honestly don't think so. For a team who needs to develop talent through the draft I actually couldn't think of a worse head coach to put in charge than Gruden.




Here is a list of players Gruden drafted and developed over the 4years he was in Oakland.
4 O -Linemen, 1TE, 1LB, 1DT, 2DE, 1WR, 1FB 1CB.
Here are the names.
Jon Ritchie, Doug Jolley, Jerry Porter, Barry Sims, Frank Middleton, Mo Collins, DeLawrence Grant, Tony Bryant
Phillip Buchanon, Roderick Coleman, Eric Barton,
Langston Walker.
They where all starters or rotation players on a Super Bowl team.


To be fair, they were Al Davis draft picks. Gruden wanted Todd Heap, he got Gibson one year. There was little room for him in the draft.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 10990
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
Raidin wrote:
In terms of bringing young talent to a team and developing it - is there an nfl coach who is as inept as Jon Gruden at it? I honestly don't think so. For a team who needs to develop talent through the draft I actually couldn't think of a worse head coach to put in charge than Gruden.




Here is a list of players Gruden drafted and developed over the 4years he was in Oakland.
4 O -Linemen, 1TE, 1LB, 1DT, 2DE, 1WR, 1FB 1CB.
Here are the names.
Jon Ritchie, Doug Jolley, Jerry Porter, Barry Sims, Frank Middleton, Mo Collins, DeLawrence Grant, Tony Bryant
Phillip Buchanon, Roderick Coleman, Eric Barton,
Langston Walker.
They where all starters or rotation players on a Super Bowl team.


To be fair, they were Al Davis draft picks. Gruden wanted Todd Heap, he got Gibson one year. There was little room for him in the draft.


Yeah there wasn't many players who the coaches drafted while Davis was around. It was "Coach Davis'" call and if you didn't like it, then GET OVAH IT!!!
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14317
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
What happens if the team plays better this week with Knapp in charge.


You'll bore us with more dumb comments.

It would mean nothing.


If you don't like my post stop commenting on them. You can go back to your Walsh and Allen comparison.


yea bp really walsh and allen? lol ive met walsh before rip and he is the type of dude you want to shut up and listen to real down to earth cerebral type. think phil jackson.

i dont see allen as the guru type. it could happen but i seriously doubt it. his ceiling imo is jack del rio type of career. imo allen doesnt have enough experience we need a vet HC more than a new qb. someone that will get the team's respect.


Good hell. It's like I'm talking to a wall. READ my post. I clearly said I'm not comparing the two. Just sharing a conversation with someone who lived through the 70's 49ers.

You and bitty have some serious ADHD.


read the bold mr panties in a bunch Laughing
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasnt gruden a big tp co-signer?
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
wasnt gruden a big tp co-signer?


who doesn't he co-sign?
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 10990
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
wasnt gruden a big tp co-signer?


who doesn't he co-sign?


Yeah I think Gruden said he liked almost every single QB this last draft lol.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3570
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Pappa was on air today telling a story of how Gruden wanted to coach the Raiders in 2010 on 95.7 The Game.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20469
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
as soon as mark davis said he wasnt sure if Allen even had the passion, it became a matter of time before someone said the raiders want gruden.

The guy is all passion. Mark Davis wants a passionate coach.




You dont have to be on the sideline all "rah-rah" or screaming in a player's face to be passionate. Mark Davis commented yesterday that he thinks Allen is passionate and intense, he just usually has a calm demeanor.

He clearly has a lot of room for improvement in a lot of areas. However, he is changing the discipline of this team and that is a decent start, considering how pitiful our roster and salary cap situation is. Lets see what he does with some decent players. I think with a good OC he could run this team well.


How many penalties did Seymour, Routt and Barnes accounted for last year. Just wondering if them not playing a lot or at all for us may have something to do with penalties being down.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5297
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
You dont have to be on the sideline all "rah-rah" or screaming in a player's face to be passionate. Mark Davis commented yesterday that he thinks Allen is passionate and intense, he just usually has a calm demeanor.

He clearly has a lot of room for improvement in a lot of areas. However, he is changing the discipline of this team and that is a decent start, considering how pitiful our roster and salary cap situation is. Lets see what he does with some decent players. I think with a good OC he could run this team well.


How many penalties did Seymour, Routt and Barnes accounted for last year. Just wondering if them not playing a lot or at all for us may have something to do with penalties being down.


Thats actually a good point, and it made me do some research:

Last year Routt had 17 penalties, so cutting him obviously cut a ton of penalties. But I also looked at other players on our roster.

Barnes
2011- 11, .68/game
2012- 2, .4/game
Seymour
2011- 10, .62/game
2012- 3, .37/game
Veldheer
2011- 10, .62/game
2012- 5, .41/game
Kelly
2011- 8, .5/game
2012- 6, .5/game
Houston
2011- 7, .43/game
2012- 2, .16/game
Wiz
2011- 5, .31/game
2012- 2, .18/game
Carlisle
2011- 3, .18/game
2012- 2, .16/game

All of our top penalty-getters from last year have improved, aside from Kelly, who is on the same exact pace as he was last year.

Source: http://www.footballdb.com/penalties-player.html?tm=23&yr=2012
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14317
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
You dont have to be on the sideline all "rah-rah" or screaming in a player's face to be passionate. Mark Davis commented yesterday that he thinks Allen is passionate and intense, he just usually has a calm demeanor.

He clearly has a lot of room for improvement in a lot of areas. However, he is changing the discipline of this team and that is a decent start, considering how pitiful our roster and salary cap situation is. Lets see what he does with some decent players. I think with a good OC he could run this team well.


How many penalties did Seymour, Routt and Barnes accounted for last year. Just wondering if them not playing a lot or at all for us may have something to do with penalties being down.


Thats actually a good point, and it made me do some research:

Last year Routt had 17 penalties, so cutting him obviously cut a ton of penalties. But I also looked at other players on our roster.

Barnes
2011- 11, .68/game
2012- 2, .4/game
Seymour
2011- 10, .62/game
2012- 3, .37/game
Veldheer
2011- 10, .62/game
2012- 5, .41/game
Kelly
2011- 8, .5/game
2012- 6, .5/game
Houston
2011- 7, .43/game
2012- 2, .16/game
Wiz
2011- 5, .31/game
2012- 2, .18/game
Carlisle
2011- 3, .18/game
2012- 2, .16/game

All of our top penalty-getters from last year have improved, aside from Kelly, who is on the same exact pace as he was last year.

Source: http://www.footballdb.com/penalties-player.html?tm=23&yr=2012


you also have to take into account how many games barnes and big rich have played this year vrs last
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5703
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No he doesn't as he just agave you a per game analysis.
Unless that wasn't based on "per game the player has played", which would be skewed.
Kelly, another way he sucks.


Last edited by holyghost on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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