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How many more consecutive loses can Allen survive?
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replacing Dennis Allen with Jon Gruden would be the right choice, therefore, I expect Reggie McKenzie to keep Dennis Allen.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3081
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I'm not sold with Gruden coming back to Oakland as HC. I feel like it would be a publicity move. Yeah everyone would get that nostalgic feeling seeing him on the sidelines, but I'm not sure he will succeed.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22478
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:


Funny, just the other day you said I was "retarded" when I said we need to replace Allen. Now you're a giddy school girl about it?

Didn't you also go off on BP for flip-flopping?


Replacing Allen and replacing Allen w/ Gruden are two different animals.

This is my issue with you people and your 'flip-flopping' rhetoric. If new evidence presents itself that can change position it's apparently not allowed.

Gruden is a demi-god in Oakland. Most would fire any HC to have him back.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22478
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
LivingLegendWFC wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Professor Oak wrote:
Pro Football Weekly:
Quote:
Word around the league is that Jon Gruden is in line to rejoin the #Raiders in a prominent role.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/12/03/stafford-suffers-from-shotgun-overload [towards bottom of the article]

Interesting, if true.


What possible prominent role could he fill if not HC?

PFW is a fairly reliable news source, but seems like they are just stirring the rumor mill, just in case.


My thoughts exactly. Well I'm not sure because like you said PFW is typically on the money in m experience, but I'm struggling to think of a role that would make sense for him and us other than HC.


Pure speculation IMO. Just drawing on relationships and the fact Allen and the Raiders are struggling.

But let's humor the idea. Do we want Gruden back as HC?

Why would he want to come back to a team that is lacking so much talent?

In theory, he gets 2 things he really likes. A vet QB and couple RBs who are really good pass catchers.

Remember, rumor was Tampa players soured on him because of his abrasive style. How would that play here.

If true, it's the best thing that could happen in Oakland. He's a guy that commands respect. Vets will want to play for him. He's well connected in the coaching circles. He and Reggie would be on the same page to hit the ground running.


+1

Always loved Gruden. The only knock against him was his drafts didnt all pan out, but then again you have to wonder how much say he had in the drafts both in Oakland and Tampa. Even then, unless its a prospect with serious and obvious flaws (DHB, Russell, etc) there is a large margin for error in scouting and evaluating. Plenty of players ball in college and just never make it in the NFL. Its not always because of work ethic, or arm length, or college schemes, sometimes guys just dont make the transition. Regardless, the guy was passionate, vocal, knew how to run a team and an offense, utilize his best players, and as you said- command respect.


A lot is made out of Gruden's drafts, but when you look deeper into it, you see where things went wrong.

The Bucs gave up 2 high draft picks to land Gruden from Davis. So once the wall hit some of those vets, the wheels came off quick. His first draft the Bucs didn't have a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Also, he and Rich McKay didn't see eye to eye on how to build the roster. They were also cap strapped w/ guys like Sapp, Keyshawn, McCardell. Had a couple injuries that derailed them.

Gruden finally got the GM presence in Tampa he wanted in 2004 (Bruce Allen). By then, they were in cap hell. He and Bruce Allen landed a couple nice players, but mostly misses.

Biggest issue, Gruden never found his QB in Tampa. Gradkowski, Sims just didn't get it done.


Do you think Palmer can be that QB?


Palmer give him the vet QB he likes. Gives him time to train up another guy. unless they just go all in on rebuild w/ a QB.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22478
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not sold with Gruden coming back to Oakland as HC. I feel like it would be a publicity move. Yeah everyone would get that nostalgic feeling seeing him on the sidelines, but I'm not sure he will succeed.


Why exactly?

I mean it's good for publicity sure, but the guy is a hell of a coach. He's the type Reggie should have went after this offseason. He's experienced and can dial up an offense. He knows how to get the most out of his players, which is what the Raiders need.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7444
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Oak wrote:
Pro Football Weekly:
Quote:
Word around the league is that Jon Gruden is in line to rejoin the #Raiders in a prominent role.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/12/03/stafford-suffers-from-shotgun-overload [towards bottom of the article]

Interesting, if true.


If Reggie McKenzie hired John Gruden, all would be forgiven.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3809
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm already at the point where I feel like it will be a failure if we don't get him, rumor or not. Chip Kelley would be my first choice but Gruden would be awesome. I think the management is realizing a change is necessary.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7444
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not sold with Gruden coming back to Oakland as HC. I feel like it would be a publicity move. Yeah everyone would get that nostalgic feeling seeing him on the sidelines, but I'm not sure he will succeed.


Why exactly?

I mean it's good for publicity sure, but the guy is a hell of a coach. He's the type Reggie should have went after this offseason. He's experienced and can dial up an offense. He knows how to get the most out of his players, which is what the Raiders need.


Werent you just dissing him like a week ago?
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4585
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:


Funny, just the other day you said I was "retarded" when I said we need to replace Allen. Now you're a giddy school girl about it?

Didn't you also go off on BP for flip-flopping?


Replacing Allen and replacing Allen w/ Gruden are two different animals.

This is my issue with you people and your 'flip-flopping' rhetoric. If new evidence presents itself that can change position it's apparently not allowed.

Gruden is a demi-god in Oakland. Most would fire any HC to have him back.


But you said last week it was 100% certainty Allen was staying and that it was not worth discussing?
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I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3640
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was talk that Gruden was getting a staff together I just assumed it was for Philadelphia and not Oakland.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3809
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:


Funny, just the other day you said I was "retarded" when I said we need to replace Allen. Now you're a giddy school girl about it?

Didn't you also go off on BP for flip-flopping?


Replacing Allen and replacing Allen w/ Gruden are two different animals.

This is my issue with you people and your 'flip-flopping' rhetoric. If new evidence presents itself that can change position it's apparently not allowed.

Gruden is a demi-god in Oakland. Most would fire any HC to have him back.


Oh gimme a break dude. It's not like those of us who said fire Allen said hire Art Shell. Of course we would be looking for an upgrade, Grudens name has been swirling around the league. This isn't "new evidence" whatsoever, except that we are in fact pursuing a potential change.

Basically you're saying "we don't want to fire Allen unless its for someone better." We obviously weren't looking to fire him for someone worse...

But now that it might happen everyone does a 180 and forgets about their precious continuity Laughing
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not sold with Gruden coming back to Oakland as HC. I feel like it would be a publicity move. Yeah everyone would get that nostalgic feeling seeing him on the sidelines, but I'm not sure he will succeed.


Why exactly?

I mean it's good for publicity sure, but the guy is a hell of a coach. He's the type Reggie should have went after this offseason. He's experienced and can dial up an offense. He knows how to get the most out of his players, which is what the Raiders need.


Werent you just dissing him like a week ago?


I told a poster to let the dream die. I don't buy this rumor, but I was 100% certain Gruden wouldn't be back. Would love to be wrong.

Only thing I said negative on him was regarding his drafts.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:


Funny, just the other day you said I was "retarded" when I said we need to replace Allen. Now you're a giddy school girl about it?

Didn't you also go off on BP for flip-flopping?


Replacing Allen and replacing Allen w/ Gruden are two different animals.

This is my issue with you people and your 'flip-flopping' rhetoric. If new evidence presents itself that can change position it's apparently not allowed.

Gruden is a demi-god in Oakland. Most would fire any HC to have him back.


Oh gimme a break dude. It's not like those of us who said fire Allen said hire Art Shell. Of course we would be looking for an upgrade, Grudens name has been swirling around the league. This isn't "new evidence" whatsoever, except that we are in fact pursuing a potential change.

Basically you're saying "we don't want to fire Allen unless its for someone better." We obviously weren't looking to fire him for someone worse...

But now that it might happen everyone does a 180 and forgets about their precious continuity Laughing


You give me a break. Until this 'rumor' who would you suggest dumping Allen in Favor of?

Most likely another retread or rookie. So given that choice, keep Allen and see what he can do.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we just get along this one-day and love Gruden.
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thelawoffices


Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 14339
Location: Depths of Gillette Mountain
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allen absolutely deserves another year, but I'd have a hard time saying no to Gruden if he wants the job.
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