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Is Schwartz on the hot seat???
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
Are you saying Schwartz overachieved last year with the talent level he had? Or did they disappoint this season?

I would say that, last season, we found ways to win close games, and we lost those close games this year. The team itself isn't worse, but we just haven't made those few plays. That's football.

I WILL NOT hold the 2009 and 2010 seasons against Jim Schwartz. He had to gut an entire roster, sign journeyman players to fill starting roles, implement new schemes and change an entire culture. Yes, just as Jim Caldwell isn't a great coach for inheriting a Super Bowl team and returning them to the Super Bowl, Jim Schwartz isn't a bad coach for inheriting an 0-16 football team and winning only two games.

We finally have a competitive football team. We are no longer a doormat. We aren't pushovers. The core of our team is incredibly young, so growing pains should be expected, but we STILL compete with the best teams in the NFL.

Why change that?


An thats cool for most people, its just unacceptable for the people that wanna win a championship sometime during there life-time.

Are we going to get better with Schwartz imo, marginally and you know you prolly can't be too much worst than whats out right now or before his time.... He's a safe bet right now, but if you wanna win it all you go out and try to hire someone better if possible(might not be possible).

It's why Harbaugh changes QB. Alex Smith gives you a good shot etc, but what potentailly Colin K brings to the table could make them a championship team. A move like this could cost his job especailly if they end up flowndering. But guys like Harbaugh don't care because they want the chance to win a championship.

That whole "musical head coaching" game is a terrible strategy for sustained success in this league, and Harbaugh doesn't deserve credit for replacing a mediocre career game-manager for a 2nd round draft pick.

When you sign a new head coach, that new head coach will sign a new coaching staff. Those new staffs often bring new schemes, and want certain players.

So, good. Lets keep rotating coaches (and schemes, and players) every fifth year. One thing is sure: fans will think the team is improving, even though the team wont be.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't seriously tell me, overall as a football team, the Lions have improved from last year.

The record speaks for itself.

I guess we got better at 1 thing: we actually beat a playoff team (Seattle, if playoffs started today) this season.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
You can't seriously tell me, overall as a football team, the Lions have improved from last year.

The record speaks for itself.

Considering only the record, and not the circumstances, is immensely flawed, and will give you a misleading impression of a team.

Tell me: is the regular season record a clear indicator - by itself - of the quality of a team? Teams with a better record are better than teams with a lesser record?
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Whiffleballtony


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think the team is better this year. We ranked in the top half of the league defensively and second on offense. Last year, the Lions had a number of games that went there way on some lucky and or late plays. This year the plays have went for other teams. Certainly the team needs work but I suspect a year from now this talk will seem like folly.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
You can't seriously tell me, overall as a football team, the Lions have improved from last year.

The record speaks for itself.

Considering only the record, and not the circumstances, is immensely flawed, and will give you a misleading impression of a team.

Tell me: is the regular season record a clear indicator - by itself - of the quality of a team? Teams with a better record are better than teams with a lesser record?


Yes. You'd be hard pressed to find me 5 teams this season that are exceptions.
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LION KING


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's a okay coach he is developing our team and perhaps he will only be able to take us so far but sooner or later we will need a great coach to get us a championship!

But I have no problem giving him another year but even with a great year last year and he wasn't my first choice at head coach for us!
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
You can't seriously tell me, overall as a football team, the Lions have improved from last year.

The record speaks for itself.

Considering only the record, and not the circumstances, is immensely flawed, and will give you a misleading impression of a team.

Tell me: is the regular season record a clear indicator - by itself - of the quality of a team? Teams with a better record are better than teams with a lesser record?


Yes. You'd be hard pressed to find me 5 teams this season that are exceptions.

Why only consider this season? How often does the team with the best regular season record win the Super Bowl?

1. We've lost a bunch of close games this year.
2. If not for putrid special teams play early, and some terrible calls/circumstances late, we'd be seen as better than last year.

If you're only considering the record, you aren't considering enough.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse me if I don't believe a losing record team has improved over a playoff team last year.

How, how has this team overall improved from last year. Why hasn't it shown on the field?
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
Excuse me if I don't believe a losing record team has improved over a playoff team last year.

How, how has this team overall improved from last year. Why hasn't it shown on the field?
The Lions defense against the pass has improved, and it's ability to attain first downs on the ground when needed(and also score)- not when allowed due to how the defense is playing you; both of those areas of our team have improved- mainly due to the play of our CB's and RB's.

But our safety play has been horrid, so unlike when we started out the season hot last year- when both Delmas and Houston were playing great- that has decreased the productivity of our DL, and has continued the trend from the end of last season- of our defense relinquishing huge plays, and far too many points.

Also, our offense has been stagnant for much of the season during the first 2.5 quarters. Last season, we consistently scored during that same time frame, although we did have a few 4th quarter explosions as well. Last season, we were 4th in scoring, while this season we are 13th.

Last season we were +11 in TO's, this season we are -7. I just don't see how we are playing better overall. Especially with the most important statistics being our 4-7 record, with horrible losses IMO to Tennessee, and Minnesota x2.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
Excuse me if I don't believe a losing record team has improved over a playoff team last year.

How, how has this team overall improved from last year. Why hasn't it shown on the field?
The Lions defense against the pass has improved, and it's ability to attain first downs on the ground when needed(and also score)- not when allowed due to how the defense is playing you; both of those areas of our team have improved- mainly due to the play of our CB's and RB's.

But our safety play has been horrid, so unlike when we started out the season hot last year- when both Delmas and Houston were playing great- that has decreased the productivity of our DL, and has continued the trend from the end of last season- of our defense relinquishing huge plays, and far too many points.

Also, our offense has been stagnant for much of the season during the first 2.5 quarters. Last season, we consistently scored during that same time frame, although we did have a few 4th quarter explosions as well. Last season, we were 4th in scoring, while this season we are 13th.

Last season we were +11 in TO's, this season we are -7. I just don't see how we are playing better overall. Especially with the most important statistics being our 4-7 record, with horrible losses IMO to Tennessee, and Minnesota x2.


I see areas of improvement but there have been areas where the team has regressed.

Good teams find a way to get into the playoff's. The Lions have had opportunity to win every game played this season but haven't gotten the job done.
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qball8001


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
Are you saying Schwartz overachieved last year with the talent level he had? Or did they disappoint this season?

I would say that, last season, we found ways to win close games, and we lost those close games this year. The team itself isn't worse, but we just haven't made those few plays. That's football.

I WILL NOT hold the 2009 and 2010 seasons against Jim Schwartz. He had to gut an entire roster, sign journeyman players to fill starting roles, implement new schemes and change an entire culture. Yes, just as Jim Caldwell isn't a great coach for inheriting a Super Bowl team and returning them to the Super Bowl, Jim Schwartz isn't a bad coach for inheriting an 0-16 football team and winning only two games.

We finally have a competitive football team. We are no longer a doormat. We aren't pushovers. The core of our team is incredibly young, so growing pains should be expected, but we STILL compete with the best teams in the NFL.

Why change that?


An thats cool for most people, its just unacceptable for the people that wanna win a championship sometime during there life-time.

Are we going to get better with Schwartz imo, marginally and you know you prolly can't be too much worst than whats out right now or before his time.... He's a safe bet right now, but if you wanna win it all you go out and try to hire someone better if possible(might not be possible).

It's why Harbaugh changes QB. Alex Smith gives you a good shot etc, but what potentailly Colin K brings to the table could make them a championship team. A move like this could cost his job especailly if they end up flowndering. But guys like Harbaugh don't care because they want the chance to win a championship.


To think that JS is not playing for a Championship is outrageous. We all have to remember that he is a young coach. He is growing with this team. He only spent marginal time with the Greats, and they where not great at the time.

Schwartz is learning how to be a coach, and you can see this year the bonehead plays are pretty much gone. We do not get stupid unsportsman like penalties.

The offseason was not on him, that was on the players, and he made it known that he does not tolerate this. THe players have pushed and he has pushed back and taken control of the team.

We are in every game this year. Our players are not consistent right now, that is the biggest problem. Our secondary has started a different unit I think in 8 of the 11 games. So come on now. We are closer than our record indicates. No team wants to play us.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed this team took on the personality of its head coach.

They can compete with any team, but they still make mistakes, sometimes really costly ones because they get too hot-headed.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We got bounces and managed to win close games last year. We haven't had those same bounces this year, and lost those games as a result. We weren't a dominant 10-6 team. We aren't a typical 4-7 team. That has to be considered.
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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do people say "We aren't improving we need a coach that will"?

If every team had to improve or their coach woudl be fire 40+% would be canned a year.

Jets: Regressed
Packers: Regressed
Jags: Regressed
Tennessee: Regressed
NE: Hasn't improved
Dallas: Regressed
Philly: Regressed
Panthers: Regressed
Oakland: Regressed
Arizona: Regressed
Cleveland: Regressed
Cincy: Regressed

Man a lot of coaches fired this year. Confused
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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
Why do people say "We aren't improving we need a coach that will"?

If every team had to improve or their coach woudl be fire 40+% would be canned a year.

Jets: Regressed
Packers: Regressed
Jags: Regressed
Tennessee: Regressed
NE: Hasn't improved
Dallas: Regressed
Philly: Regressed
Panthers: Regressed
Oakland: Regressed
Arizona: Regressed
Cleveland: Regressed
Cincy: Regressed

Man a lot of coaches fired this year. Confused


What's funny about that list is seriously all of them but NE the Packers and maybe ARI since that staff went to a SB, could see coaching changes(maybe not head coach but changes within the staff)

Your also forgetting the Chargers/Cheifs.

Quote:
To think that JS is not playing for a Championship is outrageous. We all have to remember that he is a young coach. He is growing with this team. He only spent marginal time with the Greats, and they where not great at the time.


I never said that. My response was to TL saying
Quote:
We finally have a competitive football team. We are no longer a doormat. We aren't pushovers. The core of our team is incredibly young, so growing pains should be expected, but we STILL compete with the best teams in the NFL.

Why change that?


I said thats cool to see a competitive football team etc, but I don't think Schwartz is good enough or the right guy to bring in a championship.

An to TL about "musical coaches" and "musical schemes". It sometimes works out and sometimes doesn't. Worked fine for Tampa Bay firing Tony Dungy and bringing in John Gruden? An it's up to the Lions to get a good coach. Good coaches, scheme around there players, not the other way around.

I'm also not saying Schwartz doesn't deserve another year, He's got the rest of this year to prove he's not a complete lame duck but it'd be incrediably hard for me to bring him back if we lose out the season, especailly in dramatic fashion.
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