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Ravens @ Chargers GDT (Week 12)
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Integrity


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Columbia
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic; David Reed will be part of the 53 man roster as of 4pm today. I'm not sure who's spot he's taking.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Flaccomania: I, for one, would have NEVER yelled at Flacco for trying to force it down the field on 4th and 29.


I certainly think that if he threw it up into double/triple coverage and it was shown that Ray Rice had 10-15 yards of green in front of him and was wide open, you'd have been the first person screaming at Flacco for throwing it into coverage.

But, I digress on that point, nobody is going to come out and say "Yeah I would have been mad about that too."

But, I will say to you: This is exactly what I talked about all week -- Flacco gets it done when it matters.


No, because on 4th and 29, it's expected that you throw it down the field. I would never yell at Joe for that.

However, Manuchian Raven and BaltimoreTerp make EXCELLENT points in their post, and I actually now agree with them completely.

Joe chose the option that, if it fails, is COMPLETELY on him, and, if it works, is COMPLETELY on Ray Rice, and I commend him for that

Either way, 9-2, a strong hold of the AFC North and what seems to be about 99% hater percentage in NFL Gen. Consider me a happy camper right now!
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
Off topic; David Reed will be part of the 53 man roster as of 4pm today. I'm not sure who's spot he's taking.


Hopefully Anthony Allen.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen....


I think someone just needs to make a fourm wide avatar of a salty pretzel with the caption, "U Mad?". Would be perfect to represent Raven's nation at this point. Laughing

Like this?

Code:
http://i47.tinypic.com/1zpqj2o.png


sp6488 wrote:
This will have to suffice for now:



Code:
http://i46.tinypic.com/10eitzp.jpg

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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23, you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
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Integrity


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Integrity wrote:
Off topic; David Reed will be part of the 53 man roster as of 4pm today. I'm not sure who's spot he's taking.


Hopefully Anthony Allen.


They've placed DB Anthony Levine on IR with a "shoulder injury". I know he'll be used on special teams, but with the success that Jacoby Jones has had they would be crazy to give him any return duties.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Integrity wrote:
Off topic; David Reed will be part of the 53 man roster as of 4pm today. I'm not sure who's spot he's taking.


Hopefully Anthony Allen.


They've placed DB Anthony Levine on IR with a "shoulder injury". I know he'll be used on special teams, but with the success that Jacoby Jones has had they would be crazy to give him any return duties.


Oh, that sucks, Levine actually had a nice ST play yesterday. I'm not a fan of David Reed being anywhere near the football at this point.
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Integrity


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back and looking at Boldin's block again, I can honestly say it was a completely legal block. There are two trains of thought when it comes to this play as to why it is illegal, and I can disprove both.

-The first train of thought is that it is an illegal crack back block. (The Hines Ward Rule) Initially, I thought that this was the case. However, upon reading the actual rule it states that to constitute an illegal crackback, the blocker would have to hit the defender in the head or neck area. Although Weddle gets concussed on this play, Boldin did not hit him in the head or neck.

-The second train of thought, and definitely the most prevalent in the NFL General section is that it was an illegal block in the back. Watching the play in slow motion, even in high definition, its hard to see. It seems to me that he hits Weddle in the ribs. If you look at Weddle's pads, you can see the entire back plate shift to the left as Boldin hits him. This could only be achieved with a hit to the side of the pads and impossible with a hit to the back. Also, Weddle lands on his back after being spun from Boldin's hit. Had the block been in the back, Weddle would have landed on his stomach.


See for yourselves; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t52qAAbD0hA&feature=youtu.be
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drd23


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was the sort of view I was waiting to see and it basically confirms what I thought after seeing the replays during the game - that the hit was basically into his side, maybe 10% into his back.

IMO those sort of marginal calls should be let go because I believe referees/umpires should have as little influence on a game as possible and only call those fouls/penalties that are clear cut.

That said I can kinda see how a Chargers fan would be miffed that it wasn't called (even if they are wrong) because you always want calls to go your way
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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget any complaints about the officials...they gave up 4th and 29....completely unacceptable
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Integrity wrote:
Off topic; David Reed will be part of the 53 man roster as of 4pm today. I'm not sure who's spot he's taking.


Hopefully Anthony Allen.


They've placed DB Anthony Levine on IR with a "shoulder injury". I know he'll be used on special teams, but with the success that Jacoby Jones has had they would be crazy to give him any return duties.


I think Reed was a pretty good gunner when he played last year so I don't really have a problem with him being activated. There's no shot he gets a chance at returns unless Jones gets hurt.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
As I said in NFL Gen, Flacco is in a no-win situation.

They showed clear as day all 4 of his receivers downfield were blanketed. The pocket was collapsing.

Had Joe just thrown the ball up for grabs, people would be screaming "WTF Ray Rice was wide open! Even if it's a minute chance of him converting, at least it's a chance! Instead Joe throws into quadruple coverage! What a dolt!"

But Joe decides to throw it to the guy who is open and who could potentially make a big play, and it's "OMG he checked it down instead of lobbing it up for a 4 on 6 jump ball! What a dolt!"
I'll just re-post what I said in NFL Gen thread of unimpressed McKayla Maroney's shrugging at 4th and 29, because it hits on a lot of the same things w'e're talking about. I more or less feel that Joe made a possibly questionable decision at a moment where there really wasn't a good option, similar to what you just said:

Quote:
Whether it's chucking it towards the 1st down marker/goalline or throwing it short, it's a low percentage attempt based on the logic that at the very least, you want to give your team a chance. A chance to catch a contested jump-ball, or a chance to find some running room and get to where they need to be. Both plays only accomplish half of what you're looking for: A deep throw guarantees you've got the yardage but only gives you a prayer of getting possession. A checkdown/dump-off guarantees you possession but leaves you with the cards stacked against you in terms of getting the yardage necessary.

Flacco was faced with two really bad options during that play: chuck it downfield when no one was open or even looking back at him, or give it to a wide-open Ray Rice and hope that somehow Ray could get him 30 yards. Joe said after the game that he was looking for Torrey to look back and stop his route and that if he had done that, he would have chucked it downfield. But Torrey, Boldin, and the other receivers weren't in a position to make a play, so he gave it to Rice. The sheer length of time Flacco held on to that ball before finally relenting and giving to Rice said to me at least that he really didn't want to check down because it was most likely going to do absolutely nothing for us. He did it because he really felt that of his two bad options, it was the slightly better option. I might disagree with that and say that you should still throw it downfield, but in the end we're talking about the Ravens having a very low chance at converting regardless of what Joe had decided.

I think there's some level of cognitive dissonance here though: If it was such an easy play for Rice with the entire left side of the field open and the Chargers defense so generous, why was it a bad decision by Flacco to give it to him? The truth is, it was a low percentage decision and Rice, relatively speaking, made something out of nothing. Flacco's clutch moment came later on, with the perfect 3rd down pass downfield to Torrey in OT to set up the GW field goal.

I can live with Flacco's decision because, well, it ended up working, but I can almost guarantee it won't work like that next time. This whole season has been week after week of us finding a new, slightly unconventional way to win a game. On the one hand, you feel like maybe it's unsustainable. But on the other hand, the fact that we have a different guy step up in the crunch time every time says a little something about the team's ability to grind out results and the fact that we flat out know how to win, something that is exceptionally important to me because for years we've been on the other side of that coin, so gloriously talented but always prone to shooting ourselves in the foot and losing winnable games in crunch time.


FWIW as I was driving home from work, I was listening to Sirius XM Mad Dog Radio tonight around ~9:20 and the host was saying how it was one of the most impressive/crazy plays he had seen in a while. Not that it's the end-all-be-all (not even close), but it made me chuckle considering the NFL Gen thread.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
As I said in NFL Gen, Flacco is in a no-win situation.

They showed clear as day all 4 of his receivers downfield were blanketed. The pocket was collapsing.

Had Joe just thrown the ball up for grabs, people would be screaming "WTF Ray Rice was wide open! Even if it's a minute chance of him converting, at least it's a chance! Instead Joe throws into quadruple coverage! What a dolt!"

But Joe decides to throw it to the guy who is open and who could potentially make a big play, and it's "OMG he checked it down instead of lobbing it up for a 4 on 6 jump ball! What a dolt!"
I'll just re-post what I said in NFL Gen thread of unimpressed McKayla Maroney's shrugging at 4th and 29, because it hits on a lot of the same things w'e're talking about. I more or less feel that Joe made a possibly questionable decision at a moment where there really wasn't a good option, similar to what you just said:

Quote:
Whether it's chucking it towards the 1st down marker/goalline or throwing it short, it's a low percentage attempt based on the logic that at the very least, you want to give your team a chance. A chance to catch a contested jump-ball, or a chance to find some running room and get to where they need to be. Both plays only accomplish half of what you're looking for: A deep throw guarantees you've got the yardage but only gives you a prayer of getting possession. A checkdown/dump-off guarantees you possession but leaves you with the cards stacked against you in terms of getting the yardage necessary.

Flacco was faced with two really bad options during that play: chuck it downfield when no one was open or even looking back at him, or give it to a wide-open Ray Rice and hope that somehow Ray could get him 30 yards. Joe said after the game that he was looking for Torrey to look back and stop his route and that if he had done that, he would have chucked it downfield. But Torrey, Boldin, and the other receivers weren't in a position to make a play, so he gave it to Rice. The sheer length of time Flacco held on to that ball before finally relenting and giving to Rice said to me at least that he really didn't want to check down because it was most likely going to do absolutely nothing for us. He did it because he really felt that of his two bad options, it was the slightly better option. I might disagree with that and say that you should still throw it downfield, but in the end we're talking about the Ravens having a very low chance at converting regardless of what Joe had decided.

I think there's some level of cognitive dissonance here though: If it was such an easy play for Rice with the entire left side of the field open and the Chargers defense so generous, why was it a bad decision by Flacco to give it to him? The truth is, it was a low percentage decision and Rice, relatively speaking, made something out of nothing. Flacco's clutch moment came later on, with the perfect 3rd down pass downfield to Torrey in OT to set up the GW field goal.

I can live with Flacco's decision because, well, it ended up working, but I can almost guarantee it won't work like that next time. This whole season has been week after week of us finding a new, slightly unconventional way to win a game. On the one hand, you feel like maybe it's unsustainable. But on the other hand, the fact that we have a different guy step up in the crunch time every time says a little something about the team's ability to grind out results and the fact that we flat out know how to win, something that is exceptionally important to me because for years we've been on the other side of that coin, so gloriously talented but always prone to shooting ourselves in the foot and losing winnable games in crunch time.


FWIW as I was driving home from work, I was listening to Sirius XM Mad Dog Radio tonight around ~9:20 and the host was saying how it was one of the most impressive/crazy plays he had seen in a while. Not that it's the end-all-be-all (not even close), but it made me chuckle considering the NFL Gen thread.


Not to mention that I've heard the same thing from multiple people on NFL Network, people around my school, etc. etc.

But not NFL Gen. Nope. They are NOT impressed. And if you go back and read, apparently that run was the equivalent to Ray Rice running through "a bunch of high school JV players trying to arm tackle him"...Salty, salty, salty.
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
You can thank us now or after the game.

We are going to crush the steelers for you Very Happy


We will beat them week 17 as well. Very Happy
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
You can thank us now or after the game.

We are going to crush the steelers for you Very Happy


We will beat them week 17 as well. Very Happy


Not sure if it was said...

Thank you.
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