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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 3324
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: D stats and observations Reply with quote

If the current pace holds, this team is on pace for 29 sacks. That is quite weak, which would be right near the worst in the league.

I don't have stats for pressures per pass attempt, but that could be a more important stat if there is one, plmk how this team is.

I can't believe how good the secondary is playing with such a weak front 7 wrt pressure especially when considering recent years with most of the same players. Heyward should be an upgrade, but from what I have seen, 92 is starting to get back into form but 56 has been a disappointment this year.

This D could finish tops in pass D, yet with what has been only a weak passrush thus far. It will be interesting to see how the secondary responds if pressure starts to come back , because points are already stingy and perhaps turnovers will start to pile up.

What do you think of the impact Lewis has had? Even if half of his 18 passes defensed were completions, a few could be TD's etc. Also, with his coverage so good, they might not throw his way as often either. Why was he a back up to Bmac or willie G these previous years?

If Troy comes back, Heyward produces, 92 and 56 get their game back it could be a good way to go into the playoffs. If we had decent QB play vs the ravens we would have won. The D only allowed 6 points, 2 ypc for rice and flacco only had 160 yards.

Taylor has played well after a rough start to the 2012 season. Foote has been a consistent defender this year, and deserves props.

Is this mostly a result of weak opponents? Giants , skins and ravens couldn't do anything, lets hope this continues or gets even better Cool
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10057
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this thread explains why I think Carnell Lake is the best coach on the Steelers right now.

1. Gay and McFadden started because Keenan Lewis was TERRIBLE. Lake has worked wonders with him

2. The fact that Gay played reasonbly well last season is testament to how well Lake has worked that defensive secondary

3. Take a look at how well Will Allen has played back there in place of Troy. He has NEVER played this well. He's been a career special teams guy.

No pressure.
No Troy.
New SS, new CB2, new nickel CB.
Best secondary we've seen in awhile.

Let's hope it keeps up, and let's hope Carnell doesn't get too many great offers for promotion elsewhere


I'm just preparing for how pissed off I'm going to be when Ziggy comes back and is gifted his job back despite Heyward drastically outplaying him
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 3324
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
this thread explains why I think Carnell Lake is the best coach on the Steelers right now.

1. Gay and McFadden started because Keenan Lewis was TERRIBLE. Lake has worked wonders with him

2. The fact that Gay played reasonbly well last season is testament to how well Lake has worked that defensive secondary

3. Take a look at how well Will Allen has played back there in place of Troy. He has NEVER played this well. He's been a career special teams guy.

No pressure.
No Troy.
New SS, new CB2, new nickel CB.
Best secondary we've seen in awhile.

Let's hope it keeps up, and let's hope Carnell doesn't get too many great offers for promotion elsewhere


I'm just preparing for how pissed off I'm going to be when Ziggy comes back and is gifted his job back despite Heyward drastically outplaying him


If Hood gets his job back, that sounds like frat like coaching again. If Heyward plays well, he should start or at least rotate a similar amount of snaps his way.

Lake has been the difference, he should be the new DC in a few years Idea

Keth, what do you think will happen if the front starts to get pressure? We already allow the fewest yards and in todays game it is quite a feat.

Lets hope heyward dominates and is a new starter. Now what if Gilbert gets his job back - how pissed will you be then?
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kethy, people are afraid Butler will be a clone of Lebeau. I know he lacks experience, but what about Lake as D Coord? Probably a dumb idea, just wanted to know your thoughts on it. Totally agree, and would add that Lewis was immature. Will Allen has impressed me a lot too.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dom Capers and Ray Horton are 2 recent guys who are from LeBeau's defensive coaching tree. Their defenses have similarities, but are also much different than ours.

I don't know what Butler would be like. The primary issue might be who he brings in for DL once Mitchell leaves.

Remember, LeBeau is 75. Granted, Butler isn't that much younger, but he might be chomping at the bit to put his own personality on the defense.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Dom Capers and Ray Horton are 2 recent guys who are from LeBeau's defensive coaching tree. Their defenses have similarities, but are also much different than ours.

I don't know what Butler would be like. The primary issue might be who he brings in for DL once Mitchell leaves.

Remember, LeBeau is 75. Granted, Butler isn't that much younger, but he might be chomping at the bit to put his own personality on the defense.


Capers might be INFLUENCED by LeBeau but he has never been under LeBeau. He came from New Orleans ( as LB coach) to the Steelers in 92.

LeBeau main focus is the Joker. Capers has never had anything like that.
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When LeBeau actually lets the leash off of our D, they seem to do better with the sacks/pressure. His conservative game planning has been a big factor in our issues with getting to the QB. But at the same time, you have to question the individual performance of our LB core. They should be much better than this.

Not that I'm not impressed with the performance over the last month or so, but we did play some bad/struggling QBs. I still feel like this D is capable of getting beat up any given week.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Curtain wrote:
When LeBeau actually lets the leash off of our D, they seem to do better with the sacks/pressure. His conservative game planning has been a big factor in our issues with getting to the QB. But at the same time, you have to question the individual performance of our LB core. They should be much better than this.

Not that I'm not impressed with the performance over the last month or so, but we did play some bad/struggling QBs. I still feel like this D is capable of getting beat up any given week.


I used to feel like this D is capable of getting beat up any given week, but the games vs the Ravens and Giants changed that. The Ravens game had poor QB play and a bad ST call by kicking to the returner. We have already had several posts about the giants game.

It will be a nice matchup vs the better teams, because despite being critical with those matchups in the past, I think the secondary's play can hold up despite the lack of pressure from the front. Is Lewis the main reason for the improvement or is it Lake?
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Dom Capers and Ray Horton are 2 recent guys who are from LeBeau's defensive coaching tree. Their defenses have similarities, but are also much different than ours.

I don't know what Butler would be like. The primary issue might be who he brings in for DL once Mitchell leaves.

Remember, LeBeau is 75. Granted, Butler isn't that much younger, but he might be chomping at the bit to put his own personality on the defense.


Capers might be INFLUENCED by LeBeau but he has never been under LeBeau. He came from New Orleans ( as LB coach) to the Steelers in 92.

LeBeau main focus is the Joker. Capers has never had anything like that.


true enough, but that would be a very heavy influence. I'm not sure that LeBeau's main focus on his defense was ever going to be the Joker until we saw what we could do with Troy. Yes, we had some freelancing 'back in the day' but nothing so very obviously discrete that you build a defense around it. That is an example of LeBeau molding his defense to fit a truly dynamic playmaker's unique skillsets

Main point is that I don't think that Butler will be a LeBeau "clone", although I wouldn't be shocked if it was 'more of the same'
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Gatoradus


Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 2223
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't normally put stocks into anything when people talk about prospects but I'm in pa for thanksgiving and was talking about how I want Te'O and my aunt quickly replied, saying no kevin doesn't want him he wants this player, Kapron Lewis-Moore. I have other uncle whose name was kevin so I was like kevin? She replied colbert.

So I had to looked him up, #89 for Notre Dame and was surprised that he plays 3-4 defensive end. A redshirted senior. Currently projects between 4-7 rounds pick.

What I'm saying is that the steelers just might feel same way as us about ziggy. Perhaps they are just hoping for the best (miraclous ziggy improve or something) but I'm pretty confident 2013 draft 1st round will be either d-line or a pass rusher.

Just thought it was interesting to mention.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I do like Moore quite a bit, although if we draft yet ANOTHER 1st round DE, I think my head might explode
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
jebrick wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Dom Capers and Ray Horton are 2 recent guys who are from LeBeau's defensive coaching tree. Their defenses have similarities, but are also much different than ours.

I don't know what Butler would be like. The primary issue might be who he brings in for DL once Mitchell leaves.

Remember, LeBeau is 75. Granted, Butler isn't that much younger, but he might be chomping at the bit to put his own personality on the defense.


Capers might be INFLUENCED by LeBeau but he has never been under LeBeau. He came from New Orleans ( as LB coach) to the Steelers in 92.

LeBeau main focus is the Joker. Capers has never had anything like that.


true enough, but that would be a very heavy influence. I'm not sure that LeBeau's main focus on his defense was ever going to be the Joker until we saw what we could do with Troy. Yes, we had some freelancing 'back in the day' but nothing so very obviously discrete that you build a defense around it. That is an example of LeBeau molding his defense to fit a truly dynamic playmaker's unique skillsets

Main point is that I don't think that Butler will be a LeBeau "clone", although I wouldn't be shocked if it was 'more of the same'


LeBeau developed the Joker concept in the 80's and used it in the Super Bowls vs the 49'ers. Most 3-4 coaches have a common tree. LeBeau has influenced almost every NFL defensive coach in some way with the zone blitz. Capers is innovative in his use of the zone blitz but he has not moved beyond that like LeBeau.
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they have learned Pray that they need DE with long long arms like Aaron Smith. Like Hayward. Not like Hood. If they can get that player in the 3-rd or 4th round than more power to them.

I still think a playmaker is needed but a NT might be the pick because where the players fall.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I'm just surprised that they didn't thought our pass rushers were just as bad as d-line. I'm still high on dion jordan for first round.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Kethy mentioned we are using our sub-packages more and more. While teams are more geared to pass the ball, and we have the talent to play 2-3 dlineman in a sub-package (McLendon-Hood-Heyward) or (Hood-Heyward), wouldn't it be better served to spend a high pick on a safety? I do agree that a 3rd-4th round long armed dlineman would be a great addition though.
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