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Should the first pick be a QB by default?
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Should the first pick be a QB by default? Reply with quote

There's a likely chance that the team that "earns" the first overall pick will be in need of a starting quarterback. Thus far, it is apparent that while there is depth of talent at quarterback in this years flock, there doesn't appear to be any "elite" talent available at the position. Meanwhile, there are a number of other positions that offer "elite" potential.

I think there is a realistic chance that the team that ends up with the top pick either trades it, or goes with another position all together at #1.

What is the likelihood of this happening?

I think it has a lot to do on what Geno Smith's stock ends up being at the end of the year and how the quarterbacks rated behind him are able to level the playing field.

Another factor to consider is that if the Chiefs do indeed retain the #1 pick through the end of the year, there is a strong chance that Scott Pioli will entertain trading it. As the order is now, I could very well see a trade with the Eagles that would involve Nick Foles and a ransom of picks.

I personally believe a team like the Chiefs or Jaguars should cut bait with their current starter (more so the Chiefs than Jags) and draft Geno, but I think there are a number of ways that a team like the one's mentioned could improve their squad without picking a QB #1 overall.
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Giantsfan80


Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet the Panthers would like JJ Watt over Newton now.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giantsfan80 wrote:
I bet the Panthers would like JJ Watt over Newton now.


I bet they wouldn't. I bet they'd want a OC who doesn't try to get fancy with Cam.
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RuskieTitan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Giantsfan80 wrote:
I bet the Panthers would like JJ Watt over Newton now.


I bet they wouldn't. I bet they'd want a OC who doesn't try to get fancy with Cam.


And a coaching staff that doesn't blow away leads like a Kardashian and, well, anything.
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Giantsfan80


Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Giantsfan80 wrote:
I bet the Panthers would like JJ Watt over Newton now.


I bet they wouldn't. I bet they'd want a OC who doesn't try to get fancy with Cam.


Fancy with Cam? How are they getting fancy with him? Is the OC responsible for him throwing 4 picks against the Giants? Did the OC fumble away the away the Atlanta game? Too often people blame the OC for a regressing QB. I can sum up Cams problems: Year 2.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Should the first pick be a QB by default? Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
Another factor to consider is that if the Chiefs do indeed retain the #1 pick through the end of the year, there is a strong chance that Scott Pioli will entertain trading it.


For the sake of the Kansas City franchise, I sincerely hope Scott Pioli won't be around to make a decision for us on trading or not.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the proposed theory about trading away this 1st overall pick, is that there isn't a premier prospect in the draft for anyone to move up to acquire. That will seriously limit the amount of teams willing to give up what is needed to move up to the number one spot.

I think whoever is at number one will be forced to stay there and take a QB.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
The problem with the proposed theory about trading away this 1st overall pick, is that there isn't a premier prospect in the draft for anyone to move up to acquire. That will seriously limit the amount of teams willing to give up what is needed to move up to the number one spot.

I think whoever is at number one will be forced to stay there and take a QB.


There is one elite prospect I have seen so far for this draft and if the Cheifs at 1 and the Cards were within say 3rd round pick of moving up (Given the prices paid by the Vikings and Browns last season.) I would beg them to do say.

That prospect is Luke Joeckel. You want or need a tackle. He is your guy.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
The problem with the proposed theory about trading away this 1st overall pick, is that there isn't a premier prospect in the draft for anyone to move up to acquire. That will seriously limit the amount of teams willing to give up what is needed to move up to the number one spot.

I think whoever is at number one will be forced to stay there and take a QB.


There is one elite prospect I have seen so far for this draft and if the Cheifs at 1 and the Cards were within say 3rd round pick of moving up (Given the prices paid by the Vikings and Browns last season.) I would beg them to do say.

That prospect is Luke Joeckel. You want or need a tackle. He is your guy.


First off let preface my statement by saying I think Joeckel is a very good player. Who I am much higher on then most. However, I still don't see him as an elite prospect. I don't think he is in the mold of say a Matt Kalil in last years draft.

Again, I do really like him, and I think he has played very well and against very good competition. But again, I don't think I can call him elite.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
First off let preface my statement by saying I think Joeckel is a very good player. Who I am much higher on then most. However, I still don't see him as an elite prospect. I don't think he is in the mold of say a Matt Kalil in last years draft.

Again, I do really like him, and I think he has played very well and against very good competition. But again, I don't think I can call him elite.


From what I saw of Kalil and graded last season (About 5-6 games) and what I have seen of Joeckel this season and have grade him (3-4 games) Joeckel is the superior prospect. Better Feet, Better Hands.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
The problem with the proposed theory about trading away this 1st overall pick, is that there isn't a premier prospect in the draft for anyone to move up to acquire. That will seriously limit the amount of teams willing to give up what is needed to move up to the number one spot.

I think whoever is at number one will be forced to stay there and take a QB.


There is one elite prospect I have seen so far for this draft and if the Cheifs at 1 and the Cards were within say 3rd round pick of moving up (Given the prices paid by the Vikings and Browns last season.) I would beg them to do say.

That prospect is Luke Joeckel. You want or need a tackle. He is your guy.


Totally agree, Joeckel has everything you look for in a left tackle prospect.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giantsfan80 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
Giantsfan80 wrote:
I bet the Panthers would like JJ Watt over Newton now.


I bet they wouldn't. I bet they'd want a OC who doesn't try to get fancy with Cam.


Fancy with Cam? How are they getting fancy with him? Is the OC responsible for him throwing 4 picks against the Giants? Did the OC fumble away the away the Atlanta game? Too often people blame the OC for a regressing QB. I can sum up Cams problems: Year 2.


Outside of that Giants game, have you watched us this season?

Is the offensive coordinator the sole blame for Newton's issues? Absolutely not. Not any Carolina fan will use that argument, either. Cam is undergoing the same issues as any other young quarterback does. The only difference is that unlike Dalton, unlike RG3, etc., our team is trying to make Cam Newton THE offense. The routes are typically long developing with no underneath options - we don't look to utilize Olsen in the intermediate nearly as much as we should. Olsen has routinely been deadly to defenses when we decide to pass out of center off playaction because he's working more under rather than running up the seen or running deep crossing routes constantly. Unfortunately, I'd wager to bet 85% of Newton's throws this year have been from shotgun. And as of a few weeks ago, 66% of our runs (66%) were from shotgun, and probably 60% of them were zone read option. Williams, Stewart, and Tolbert average 3.1 YPC this season. Newton is our leading rusher on the season by yards and touchdowns, and he only has 394 yards and 4 touchdowns. Newton plays behind a bottom five offensive line, whether it be in pass protection or run blocking. They have an aging left tackle, a 2nd round raw DII guard, a bum who was guard at the beginning of the season playing center, an UDFA playing right guard who was a center coming in, and an UDFA playing right tackle as their starting offensive line.

Does Cam have a lot he needs to work on? Absolutely, but he has still shown plenty of positives as well. There is no way it'd be logical to move on from him and as of now, I see no reason to believe that Cam wasn't the right pick last year. I don't know why people fill the need to right off a guy so early in his career, especially based off when you saw what he's capable of his rookie year and even this year, he hasn't played that terrible compared to what you'd see out of 2nd year 22 year old QBs. People just have ridiculously high expectations. As a matter of fact, Cam Newton currently leads the league in Y/A and he has a 79 QB Rating - not great but not that bad considering the circumstances and could still very well finish around an 85 QB rating (he was around a 79 QB rating this point last year). Right now the only big issue I have with him is footwork. Decision making is an issue as well but tell me what QB his age with his amount of NFL experience has great decision making? Unfortunately he doesn't get the privileged to play in a one read offense (I've rarely seen RG3 go through more than one progression; not trying to take away from him, just pointing out Cam is asked to do a lot more and hasn't been given much help to maybe hide his weaknesses) with a top ranked running game like Griffin does. I know many make this comparison if their young QB is struggling but I'm making it because I think their playing styles actually compare. Cam Newton and Eli Manning. Neither were pitted in the best situations, as far as the guys around them on offense. Both had similar issues from what I recall. Eli had very inconsistent accuracy and footwork, like Newton. Newton made a terrific pass on the run last Sunday and then followed it up with a wild throw. It isn't because he isn't capable of being a great passer. It's all to the feet. And it is why I believe Eli is still an inconsistent quarterback, at least partially. Footwork. Both are gunslingers prone to making bad decisions. But both are certainly capable of willing their team to a victory if need be. Newton hasn't learned that trait yet but I think he's parallel to Eli, not because of the struggling stuff but because as players, they are just similar but people don't see it that way because they paint Newton as a heavy runner (which he avoids doing even when he should - holds ball too long sometimes). I think you get a good quarterback coach or solid coaching staff in here who can develop Newton's footwork and you will see a very good quarterback. It's why I want Clements from Greenbay.

As for the thread, I don't think it is a must to take a QB #1 overall - it comes down to if you like the QBs in the draft and did you just recently draft a young, promising QB that you'd still consider better than the ones in the draft. If Carolina gets the first pick, I expect us to take Star Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones. Luke Joeckel could be another one but I'm going to wait until after the season to really look into him. Personally though I'd prefer an impact player, offensively or defensively. Which is why it'd be best if we could trade down and why if we do get the first overall pick, I'd wish for KC to be #2. Could bait them into trading with us at fear of another team taking the pick and the quarterback they want and yet we'd still get the guy we want.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, but they will. Geno has the best chance of being the top pick even though he's not the top player.
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be down right foolish for a team to use the #1 overall pick on a QB this year I don't care what the trends have been lately. There is not a single QB in this draft the even remotely makes you think he can be a championship QB in the NFL. If you don't have a great QB then you simply don't have a QB. Passing up on true impact players at other positions just to fill a need at QB and then hoping and praying he turns into a star is foolish.

Some team like Jacksonville, Kansas City or Cleveland is going to make a very stupid decision that is going to set them back another 5 years because they are going to pass up on better players in hopes they get lucky on a QB.

Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson and Logan Thomas are 2nd round prospects and Matt Barkley, Mike Glennon, Tyler Bray and Aaron Murray are 3rd round prospects. Don't be stupid and take one of these guys 1st overall just because of the position.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what is meant by default, if a team has the first pick chances are they need a QB. Rare cases teams dont need a QB or there isnt a good QB prospect, though QB will almost always be the first pick. Just the way it is, its the most important and instrumental position.
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