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FootballPhreak
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | I think the value of LT is vastly over rated. Teams just move the blitzed around to exploit the weak part of the line anyway. |
Maybe so, but the QB can see the rush coming from the other positions.
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| Draft_FanAddict wrote: | | If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what would...a missing head? |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21534
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| FootballPhreak wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | I think the value of LT is vastly over rated. Teams just move the blitzed around to exploit the weak part of the line anyway. |
Maybe so, but the QB can see the rush coming from the other positions. |
It's interesting. I watched an program the other day where coaches and players were interviewed. With the exception of one player when individually asked what the most important position was on the offensive line they had the same answer and it wasn't LT.
The whole concept of blindside isn't really all that valid. A QB should have field scanning mechanics and if they don't they won't last long. Take a look at the Lions as an excellent example. The pressure they generate usually isn't against a LT. Other teams are much more fluid with their defensive packages and pressure from varied points on the field.
As for the answer the players and coaches gave. The Center!
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 11742
Location: here
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | FootballPhreak wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | I think the value of LT is vastly over rated. Teams just move the blitzed around to exploit the weak part of the line anyway. |
Maybe so, but the QB can see the rush coming from the other positions. |
It's interesting. I watched an program the other day where coaches and players were interviewed. With the exception of one player when individually asked what the most important position was on the offensive line they had the same answer and it wasn't LT.
The whole concept of blindside isn't really all that valid. A QB should have field scanning mechanics and if they don't they won't last long. Take a look at the Lions as an excellent example. The pressure they generate usually isn't against a LT. Other teams are much more fluid with their defensive packages and pressure from varied points on the field.
As for the answer the players and coaches gave. The Center! |
Yup. Defenses are built from the inside out, the OL is too. The reason OT's are put at a premium is because the technique is different and harder. Most OT's can play OG, but not the other way around. OC, and OG footwork is much more side to side while an OT's footwork is nearly 100% and requires faster reactions. It's a harder position meaning better offensive lineman are required to play OT.
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SadLionFan00
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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Location: Michigan State University
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Neux. We got our franchise LT in Riley Reiff. I would rather use our resources elsewhere.
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Quote: | | Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him? |
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it? |
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FootballPhreak
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | As for the answer the players and coaches gave. The Center! |
Of course. Because making the line calls is the most important thing on the Oline. It is, however, also much easier to find an OC that can make line calls than it is to find an OT that can shut down a premier pass rusher from the blindside.
Look no further than the average salaries along the line to see precisely who NFL FO's feel is the hardest/most important position along the Oline. Center has help blocking on both sides. LT is on an island out where the QB cannot see. While you are correct on a number of points, there just is no way to downplay the importance of the LT. IMO it is the 2nd most important position on the field. I can see arguments for up to maybe 3 other positions ahead of it, but not more.
Regardless. Even if one feels the importance of said position is not that great, to say you would not like to have one of the premier players at a prime age for the position is ludicrous. Would Long make this team better? Absolutely. Pending cost would he likely make a bigger positive difference for this team than the pick required to acquire him? Certainly IMO. If that is not your opinion, fine. But I really don't see an argument otherwise personally.
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| Draft_FanAddict wrote: | | If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what would...a missing head? |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| FootballPhreak wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | As for the answer the players and coaches gave. The Center! |
Of course. Because making the line calls is the most important thing on the Oline. It is, however, also much easier to find an OC that can make line calls than it is to find an OT that can shut down a premier pass rusher from the blindside.
Look no further than the average salaries along the line to see precisely who NFL FO's feel is the hardest/most important position along the Oline. Center has help blocking on both sides. LT is on an island out where the QB cannot see. While you are correct on a number of points, there just is no way to downplay the importance of the LT. IMO it is the 2nd most important position on the field. I can see arguments for up to maybe 3 other positions ahead of it, but not more.
Regardless. Even if one feels the importance of said position is not that great, to say you would not like to have one of the premier players at a prime age for the position is ludicrous. Would Long make this team better? Absolutely. Pending cost would he likely make a bigger positive difference for this team than the pick required to acquire him? Certainly IMO. If that is not your opinion, fine. But I really don't see an argument otherwise personally. |
It's far more than just making line calls though. Salaries don't really mean much because those change as the game evolves. Yesterday's flavour was LT but over the last several years defences have schemed to create pressure from different spots on the line.
I would love to have an elite player at any position but all things considered I would much prefer the Lions to add an elite C or G.
Having an elite LT doesn't mean much if the interior line can't hold a pocket. As well if the pocket holds the QB stepping up can negate exterior pass rushes.
I think the whole concept of needing an elite player at any position is kind of foolish to be quite honest. Nice to have, certainly but not a requirement for success.
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LionsFTW
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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With the NFL going more spread with 3 and 4 wide receiver sets, and the amount of check downs and screens teams use now, the LT lost importance. QB's rarely are in the pocket as long as they were 4, 5 years ago.
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LionsFTW wrote: | | With the NFL going more spread with 3 and 4 wide receiver sets, and the amount of check downs and screens teams use now, the LT lost importance. QB's rarely are in the pocket as long as they were 4, 5 years ago. |
Well said. The schemes and strategy evolve and as the evolution matures players on both sides of the ball become more or less important.
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SadLionFan00
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 14342
Location: Michigan State University
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| FootballPhreak wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | As for the answer the players and coaches gave. The Center! |
Of course. Because making the line calls is the most important thing on the Oline. It is, however, also much easier to find an OC that can make line calls than it is to find an OT that can shut down a premier pass rusher from the blindside.
Look no further than the average salaries along the line to see precisely who NFL FO's feel is the hardest/most important position along the Oline. Center has help blocking on both sides. LT is on an island out where the QB cannot see. While you are correct on a number of points, there just is no way to downplay the importance of the LT. IMO it is the 2nd most important position on the field. I can see arguments for up to maybe 3 other positions ahead of it, but not more.
Regardless. Even if one feels the importance of said position is not that great, to say you would not like to have one of the premier players at a prime age for the position is ludicrous. Would Long make this team better? Absolutely. Pending cost would he likely make a bigger positive difference for this team than the pick required to acquire him? Certainly IMO. If that is not your opinion, fine. But I really don't see an argument otherwise personally. |
Having a bad LT can hurt a team a lot, but having an elite LT isnt much better than having a good or even average LT, compared to the difference having an elite WR or elite DE makes.
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Quote: | | Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him? |
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it? |
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Lionsfanforever
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 4338
Location: Brighton, MI
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| FootballPhreak wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | As for the answer the players and coaches gave. The Center! |
Of course. Because making the line calls is the most important thing on the Oline. It is, however, also much easier to find an OC that can make line calls than it is to find an OT that can shut down a premier pass rusher from the blindside. |
Look at teams like the Jets and Steelers, when Mangold, and Pouncey don't play their whole offense plays worse.
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tytalton
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| I'd love to have JL come here...but I think MM believes the linemen just don't have the impact that skill position players have. I think we have a better shot at Braylon that JL probably |
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GeneralTso
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 6815
Location: Props to Rase on Sig
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of Center, we're going to need a new one of those soon.
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| james.mcmurry13 wrote: | | Yeah, [Mike] Wallace would be like 4th fastest on the Raiders. |
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flyguy1609
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| is long going be a FA after this season? why wouldn't we go for him in the off-season and trade no1 for him? from wht im hearing the dolphins may let him walk... |
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Jrugges
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 8237
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| flyguy1609 wrote: | | is long going be a FA after this season? why wouldn't we go for him in the off-season and trade no1 for him? from wht im hearing the dolphins may let him walk... |
Because he can be franchised and dealt elsewhere, also in the open market Jake Long would get a massive underserved contract from us or someone else vs Lions trading for him and being the only team to negotiate with. |
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LION KING
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 15233
Location: THE U.P. MICHIGAN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I think Jake Long is a great player who happens to be on a terrible team, if they're willing to move him for a 2nd round pick you jump at it period.
I would love to have him protecting Stafford blind side!
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