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Harbaugh starting Kaepernick
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tiger9er08 wrote:
Ive moved on


As have I. I am simply answering the man's question posed to me. Happy to move on from any further talk of one Alex Smith.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
tiger9er08 wrote:
Ive moved on


As have I. I am simply answering the man's question posed to me. Happy to move on from any further talk of one Alex Smith.


Thanks for answering me Oldie, like i said before i just was curious how you came to feel the way you do, while i dont agree with it i can understand it, as for tiger9er thanks for your thoughts on something you have clearly moved on from, i appreciate your opinion.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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John232


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Like i said i have no issue with your loyalty to Alex, but i just dont see how anyone can devlop the attitude that he "stabbed Alex in the back"


Alex was on his way out prior to 2011 after being IMHO... the most mistreated QB that I had ever seen. At that point, I was rather happy for him to be leaving... for him... and for the fans. What comes next? Jim courts Alex the best he can. Talks him up... sends flowers to his wife... real buddy buddy BS. He even goes so far as talk about how Alex was mishandled and abused by this franchise in years past. So Alex recognizes that Jim seems very competent, and verbally commits.

Free Agent Alex runs "Camp Alex" and gets the players in tune with lots of the basics that the coaches are not allowed to involve themselves in yet. 2011 has its offensive struggles in a first year WCO.. but Alex and the team are doing enough to win lots of games. Injuries take their toll in the playoffs, and we come up just shy of a SB. Albeit not flashy in numbers, Alex is showing signs of being a top 10 quarterback. Flashy or not, he finished 9th in the league for passer rating.. and he damn sure didn't have elite weapons to throw to. Even VD admitted it took him most of the season to learn his stuff. Crabtree wasn't showing us as much as he is this season.

2012 rolls along, and we are 6-2.. Alex is 3rd in the league for passer rating. The offense is top 5 in efficiency rating. Alex was coming off the Zona game, where he picked apart their D with 18-19 passing and 3 TDs... then was 7 for 8 and a TD vs STL before coming out with the concussion.

Bottom Line: I feel that Alex was doing too well to not get his chance this season to finish what he started. Jim has to know how important this run was to Alex... what it means to him... and he deserved it. I just don't treat people like that in my life, and regard it as classless. I really do believe Jim feels either QB can win a SB for him. But I see Jim giving it to Ck7 because he is "the future".. and that seems very wrong to do to Alex.

Now what I just stated above is gonna AGAIN get twisted into me not dealing with this well and that I am bitter and angry and crying every night in my pillow. Well sorry to disappoint. None of that is the reality.. well okay, maybe a little bitter, lol. But Jim won't be the first or last 49ers HC that I have felt bitter about. So yes, I think Jim is a gaping rectum for doing this. I think it's a cold-blooded move... I think it is a betrayal... a back-stabbing.

,,, but AGAIN I will not take it out on my team or Ck7 for this... not their fault.



Really well written response. I'm sort of on both sides of the fence still with it. I mean, Alex might not of been a perennial pro-bowl QB but he was playing at a pretty high level. However, Kap is playing at a high level himself...soo errgg...

A part of me wonders how much of this is influenced by Balke because he never struck me as a big Alex Fan Boy.

I still disagree with the Harbaugh bit, but I can understand that. I'm not going to argue it anymore either. It's your opinion and I'll respect it.

He did similar stuff at Stanford, maybe not to the severity of this Alex situation. One thing that always struck me funny about Harbaugh was despite being very cheery and enthusiastic, he can be cold as any coach i've ever seen. There were so many players from Stanford I'd though he'd draft in the later rounds at least for depth/system reasons that he didn't go near at all. Cutting Owusu despite playing well.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John232 wrote:
Really well written response. I'm sort of on both sides of the fence still with it. I mean, Alex might not of been a perennial pro-bowl QB but he was playing at a pretty high level. However, Kap is playing at a high level himself...soo errgg...



This is exactly how I feel, thanks for putting it into simple enough words for my mind to process it. I'm loving and hating various aspects of the situation, and I can find myself arguing for both sides, but without great convictions. I see one side use the double standards it reproached the other side previously, and I must say it's the hypocrisy that disgusts me the most in all of this. I can easily live with the decision Harbaugh made, but some people use it to validate their long-held belief that Alex was the problem with this team. Alex was never a problem, and Kaepernick is not an answer, he's not a solution. He's an evolution. I'd rather we discuss about how we can keep progressing, rather than discussing who was right or wrong. Because, in reality, everybody was both right and wrong.
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Uncle_Rico


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good posts in here. This topic is really interesting and I agree that it's a tough situation. I like Alex and what he's done but I have absolutely no reason to second guess Harbaugh's judgement at this point. More than in any player I have faith in Harbaugh who instantly turned this team into a winner, so whatever his decision is I'm behind him.Unfortunately we will never know if he made the right choice as we will only have facts of how Kaepernick does and hypotheticals of how Alex would do.

Anyways, am I the only one that likes this move from Harbaugh's perspective? I don't mean starting Kaepernick over Alex, because we'll see how that plays out. I mean the way the move was made. Many of you see it as cold and not considerate of player's feelings but I see it as completely unbiased despite personal relationships and 100% based on what's best for the team going forward. That is the kind of coach I want. I want a coach that is willing to make a tough call because he thinks it is best for the team. Whether he's right or not is to be determined, but I like the mentality.

As far as possibly stabbing Alex in the back, I don't see it that way. I don't know what Jim said to get Alex to come back to us this season, and we will probably never know. But from what I know about Jim he always says that he loves competition at every position. Iron sharpens iron. And as far as everyone on the team is concerned they are competing for starting positions every single day. If you don't perform you get replaced. Apparently quarterback is no different. (Not that Alex didn't perform, Kap apparently showed Jim enough to take over the position). I think that is the mentality that led Jim to making this move.

Either way it is a beautiful thing for the Niners to have 2 QB's they want to start. Don't know the last time we had that problem. Besides the obvious battle of the titans between David Carr and Troy Smith.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle_Rico wrote:
Some good posts in here. This topic is really interesting and I agree that it's a tough situation. I like Alex and what he's done but I have absolutely no reason to second guess Harbaugh's judgement at this point. More than in any player I have faith in Harbaugh who instantly turned this team into a winner, so whatever his decision is I'm behind him.Unfortunately we will never know if he made the right choice as we will only have facts of how Kaepernick does and hypotheticals of how Alex would do.

Anyways, am I the only one that likes this move from Harbaugh's perspective? I don't mean starting Kaepernick over Alex, because we'll see how that plays out. I mean the way the move was made. Many of you see it as cold and not considerate of player's feelings but I see it as completely unbiased despite personal relationships and 100% based on what's best for the team going forward. That is the kind of coach I want. I want a coach that is willing to make a tough call because he thinks it is best for the team. Whether he's right or not is to be determined, but I like the mentality.

As far as possibly stabbing Alex in the back, I don't see it that way. I don't know what Jim said to get Alex to come back to us this season, and we will probably never know. But from what I know about Jim he always says that he loves competition at every position. Iron sharpens iron. And as far as everyone on the team is concerned they are competing for starting positions every single day. If you don't perform you get replaced. Apparently quarterback is no different. (Not that Alex didn't perform, Kap apparently showed Jim enough to take over the position). I think that is the mentality that led Jim to making this move.

Either way it is a beautiful thing for the Niners to have 2 QB's they want to start. Don't know the last time we had that problem. Besides the obvious battle of the titans between David Carr and Troy Smith.


I love this mentality,unfortunately to feel this way you have set aside personal feelings. You managed to do what many cannot do and that's remove personal feelings from the equation.

This move is very similar to how Walsh handled many of his players during his tenure including Joe Montana. It brought great success to the franchise for many years and i'm very confident in this decision doing the same.

You pretty much summed it up for me.

the other thing about this is that Harbs will be the first one to stand up and take it on the chin if for some reason it doesnt work out. Now that doesnt mean a championship having to happen this season, but if the QB decision comes back to set the team back and erase the work that has been done, i'm more than confident he will stand up and admitfault and then correct it.

He makes cold hearted,difficult, calculated decisions and he clearly has reasons to make the moves he does and would not make them if it doesnt benefit the team going forward.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.


Last edited by clarkfn2284 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Chrissooner49er


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really...Montana had lost multiple games played/started due to injury. Alex left one and had to sit out one. Not much similarity there...
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
Not really...Montana had lost multiple games played/started due to injury. Alex left one and had to sit out one. Not much similarity there...


not much similarity to Joe and Alex's career either.....what i meant by it is that the QB position had be solidified, but there was an incumbent in the shadows waiting for their repective tries at the job. Difference is we saw more of Steve then we did of Kaep, but both of the decisions came with a ton of scrutiny and questions.....so yeah its similar
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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nbaker1933


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

someone (who isnt me)

should see how the offense is performing with CK compared to AS.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nbaker1933 wrote:
someone (who isnt me)

should see how the offense is performing with CK compared to AS.



It's fairly similar, statistically. It's just not as smooth, pre-snap. The games feel chunky, with Kap. Once he learns to read his cues better and he takes control of the line of scrimmage, it will be great.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
nbaker1933 wrote:
someone (who isnt me)

should see how the offense is performing with CK compared to AS.



It's fairly similar, statistically. It's just not as smooth, pre-snap. The games feel chunky, with Kap. Once he learns to read his cues better and he takes control of the line of scrimmage, it will be great.



very much this.......there are chunks like you said where it doesnt look like the offense will be stopped, then they go in spurts where its like they cant even get the pre snap reads right. No doubt that with time it can be great
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
nbaker1933 wrote:
someone (who isnt me)

should see how the offense is performing with CK compared to AS.



It's fairly similar, statistically. It's just not as smooth, pre-snap. The games feel chunky, with Kap. Once he learns to read his cues better and he takes control of the line of scrimmage, it will be great.



very much this.......there are chunks like you said where it doesnt look like the offense will be stopped, then they go in spurts where its like they cant even get the pre snap reads right. No doubt that with time it can be great



There was a play that infuriated me. The Dolphins were very obviously showing an overload blitz. It wasn't one of these disguised looks, where the LBs step up to the line to show blitz, but back up when the ball is snapped. They were trying to time the blitz, there was no intention of backing up. Kap saw that and "let it roll". What was the play Kap let roll? A run play with Gore... TO THE BLITZING SIDE! He had NO chance. It was one of the worst pre-snap read I've seen. And later, he audibled into a sack. Kap has a lot of learning to do. Yet, he still throws wonderfully. When the plays get off, he has a great feel for the throws. He's a natural. But he has to make reads consistently, and quickly. We all remember how infuriating it was to watch the first few games of 2011, with all the unnecessary time outs and delay of games. But we worked out the kinks, and this year, I felt the offense was running very smooth with Alex. We didn't get the big plays, but we were in control of the flow of the game on both sides of the ball. Our losses came when one side of the ball got bullied. The Seahawks corners bullied our receivers. The Vikings just shocked our defense. When we won, we usually controlled the flow of the game. And right now, it's not flowing. It's a struggle against the play clock, play in and play out. Once Kap gets the kinks worked out, we will beat anybody.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle_Rico wrote:
Anyways, am I the only one that likes this move from Harbaugh's perspective? I don't mean starting Kaepernick over Alex, because we'll see how that plays out. I mean the way the move was made. Many of you see it as cold and not considerate of player's feelings but I see it as completely unbiased despite personal relationships and 100% based on what's best for the team going forward. That is the kind of coach I want. I want a coach that is willing to make a tough call because he thinks it is best for the team. Whether he's right or not is to be determined, but I like the mentality.


I like the mentality IF that's how it went down. However, I think you're a tad crazy if you don't believe bias played a huge role in it. Kaepernick was always going to be the future quarterback, and the team moved up to select him. I'd be entirely shocked if this was an unbiased decision.

I still don't necessarily fault him for it, don't think it says anything negative about him, but in my eyes it's fairly clear that this was the quarterback he wanted and saw the opportunity to finally make it happen.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Anyways, am I the only one that likes this move from Harbaugh's perspective? I don't mean starting Kaepernick over Alex, because we'll see how that plays out. I mean the way the move was made. Many of you see it as cold and not considerate of player's feelings but I see it as completely unbiased despite personal relationships and 100% based on what's best for the team going forward. That is the kind of coach I want. I want a coach that is willing to make a tough call because he thinks it is best for the team. Whether he's right or not is to be determined, but I like the mentality.


I like the mentality IF that's how it went down. However, I think you're a tad crazy if you don't believe bias played a huge role in it. Kaepernick was always going to be the future quarterback, and the team moved up to select him. I'd be entirely shocked if this was an unbiased decision.

I still don't necessarily fault him for it, don't think it says anything negative about him, but in my eyes it's fairly clear that this was the quarterback he wanted and saw the opportunity to finally make it happen.



It can still be unbiased... we don't know what happens in practice. Maybe Kap has been lighting it up in practice for a while, and everyone knew what was coming. Maybe all Harbaugh needed was an opportunity to make the change, not because he likes Kap better than Alex, but because he knew he was better than Alex. But really, we don't know.
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Uncle_Rico


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Anyways, am I the only one that likes this move from Harbaugh's perspective? I don't mean starting Kaepernick over Alex, because we'll see how that plays out. I mean the way the move was made. Many of you see it as cold and not considerate of player's feelings but I see it as completely unbiased despite personal relationships and 100% based on what's best for the team going forward. That is the kind of coach I want. I want a coach that is willing to make a tough call because he thinks it is best for the team. Whether he's right or not is to be determined, but I like the mentality.


I like the mentality IF that's how it went down. However, I think you're a tad crazy if you don't believe bias played a huge role in it. Kaepernick was always going to be the future quarterback, and the team moved up to select him. I'd be entirely shocked if this was an unbiased decision.

I still don't necessarily fault him for it, don't think it says anything negative about him, but in my eyes it's fairly clear that this was the quarterback he wanted and saw the opportunity to finally make it happen.



It can still be unbiased... we don't know what happens in practice. Maybe Kap has been lighting it up in practice for a while, and everyone knew what was coming. Maybe all Harbaugh needed was an opportunity to make the change, not because he likes Kap better than Alex, but because he knew he was better than Alex. But really, we don't know.


I am a tad crazy, but for very different reasons then an opinion about football.

Ultimately my opinion on the matter is this -

- I feel bad for Alex for personal reasons

- I am thrilled with Kap's success so far

- I endlessly trust Jim's judgement

If Jim goes back to Alex tomorrow I will be happy with the decision. If Jim sticks with Kap I will be happy with that as well.

Sidenote- How cool is it that both QB's are supportive of each other? Major props to both of them for being so professional about the whole thing, cuz these types of things can have a very negative effect on a team when one player gets their feelings hurt. A testament to the character of both Kap and Alex.
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