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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5772
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.


Comparisons to Jerry Rice? Where? I'm willing to acknowledge that Moore has had success and shown he can perform. You're not, despite stats to prove it. It's clear who's living in reality and who's not.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455940

Actually, its funny cause some Raider fans joked about the Moeaki thing on the second page in there Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing I actually forgot the title of the thread included Moore - the next Jerry Rice. Raider fans, gotta laugh Laughing Laughing
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.


Comparisons to Jerry Rice? Where? I'm willing to acknowledge that Moore has had success and shown he can perform. You're not, despite stats to prove it. It's clear who's living in reality and who's not.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455940

Actually, its funny cause some Raider fans joked about the Moeaki thing on the second page in there Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing I actually forgot the title of the thread included Moore - the next Jerry Rice. Raider fans, gotta laugh Laughing Laughing


You read posts from any of the other Raider fans in there?
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Professor Oak wrote:
Don't listen to the naysayers, S&B88.

SoS is in fact French. I've frenched his toast a couple of times. I think I would know.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5772
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.


Comparisons to Jerry Rice? Where? I'm willing to acknowledge that Moore has had success and shown he can perform. You're not, despite stats to prove it. It's clear who's living in reality and who's not.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455940

Actually, its funny cause some Raider fans joked about the Moeaki thing on the second page in there Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing I actually forgot the title of the thread included Moore - the next Jerry Rice. Raider fans, gotta laugh Laughing Laughing


You read posts from any of the other Raider fans in there?


I did just now, originally thought it was this thread in the Oakland forum:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=503468

Most Raider fans joking, but hey it's so over the top and ridiculous how can you not? Some Raider fans actually backing it up...

In the thread I posted:

Comparisons to Santonio Holmes, Chad Johnson, Roddy White, " a future star" (future), Steve Smith, "a baller fosho", Jerry Rice, Greg Jennings, Jerry Rice again, Reggie Wayne, a "faster Jerry Rice", Reggie Wayne, Wallace, Jennings again, then the jokes start on page 3. Then Rice again....
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparing playing style and level of play are two different things though. I mean, take a long and lanky dude who can jump, catch and run stupid fast. Only thing is he doesn't make a ton of plays but is good for a long one now and then. He'd still get Moss comparisons.
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Professor Oak wrote:
Don't listen to the naysayers, S&B88.

SoS is in fact French. I've frenched his toast a couple of times. I think I would know.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Comparing playing style and level of play are two different things though. I mean, take a long and lanky dude who can jump, catch and run stupid fast. Only thing is he doesn't make a ton of plays but is good for a long one now and then. He'd still get Moss comparisons.


Sure enough. But looking at the list of guys in that thread there's one thing in common. They're all pro bowlers or former stars. Noone is comparing Moore to Doug Gabriel, Raghib Ismael, or Mervyn Fernandez, or whomever he legitimately compares to both in style and level of play. Every guy they are comparing to is coincidentally known for a high level of play that Moore has not even remotely reached.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Comparing playing style and level of play are two different things though. I mean, take a long and lanky dude who can jump, catch and run stupid fast. Only thing is he doesn't make a ton of plays but is good for a long one now and then. He'd still get Moss comparisons.


Sure enough. But looking at the list of guys in that thread there's one thing in common. They're all pro bowlers or former stars. Noone is comparing Moore to Doug Gabriel, Raghib Ismael, or Mervyn Fernandez, or whomever he legitimately compares to both in style and level of play. Every guy they are comparing to is coincidentally known for a high level of play that Moore has not even remotely reached.


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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:


If you're talking about what he could become, how can that be argued. That's entirely my point. Other fans watch other players become or not become. Raider fans talk endlessly about what a player "could" become. But for 25 years there aren't many who have become much at all.


But that can be argued? That's quantifiable? That's not just your opinion based on an impression?
So what was the point of your rant again?
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really can't comprehend eiother of the last 2 posts.

1st one, laughing gif to a bolded part that clearly says (for those who can read) - in the first words - "noone is comparing"...

Then with the laughing gif, as if Moore is head and shoulders above those players right now.

When he puts up 1069 yards and 9 TDs, he'll have a year equal to Mervyn Fernandez' best. Oh yeah, playing on a non-level playing field where the altered defensive rules and pass happy league of today leads to far bigger stats across the board in passing.
Or the 2 years where Ismail topped 1000 yards in his career, which Moore may or may not do. Well, Ismail did it. Moore might. In my mind, Moore might be as good a player as Ismail, and that is not really a glowing endorsement.

Bear in mind again, I never made the actual comparison to those players. Because Moore, physically is nothing like those guys. Not in style at all. I simply threw them in because they are the type of guys you might compare him to if you weren't mentally unbalanced in comparing him to nothing but NFL All Pros, as everyone in that thread did.

And since it will no doubt be argued about, my comparison would be Santana Moss. Style wise. Level of play - not close to Santana Moss yet.

As for the next post, I don't even really comprehend it or what it is supposed to mean.




You know, I really didn't hear much reply from you two in regards to those threads linked above. Comment on that feast of delusion, and tell me again Raider fans don't overrate Moore based on potential...
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14318
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Comparing playing style and level of play are two different things though. I mean, take a long and lanky dude who can jump, catch and run stupid fast. Only thing is he doesn't make a ton of plays but is good for a long one now and then. He'd still get Moss comparisons.


Sure enough. But looking at the list of guys in that thread there's one thing in common. They're all pro bowlers or former stars. Noone is comparing Moore to Doug Gabriel, Raghib Ismael, or Mervyn Fernandez, or whomever he legitimately compares to both in style and level of play. Every guy they are comparing to is coincidentally known for a high level of play that Moore has not even remotely reached.


The guys he's compared to are good because he has played good and they are used as reference because they're references at the WR position. If Moore had played like trash he wouldn't be compared at all or maybe to Todd Watkins...
Anyway, what you're doing is picking a few over the top comments and running with it to make your own over the top comment and generalizing a fan base. What's the point? Go to any team forum on this site and you'll find the same over the top comments about some of their young players.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:


If you're talking about what he could become, how can that be argued. That's entirely my point. Other fans watch other players become or not become. Raider fans talk endlessly about what a player "could" become. But for 25 years there aren't many who have become much at all.


But that can be argued? That's quantifiable? That's not just your opinion based on an impression?
So what was the point of your rant again?


Yes, how good a guy is today is quantifiable. And past production as well as present production defines that. It doesn't? It's called performance. You know, on the football field? In the NFL? Playing football? Not how fast, or how close, or who he's like, or how he almost this or almost that, or any of that crap. Per - For - Mance.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Comparing playing style and level of play are two different things though. I mean, take a long and lanky dude who can jump, catch and run stupid fast. Only thing is he doesn't make a ton of plays but is good for a long one now and then. He'd still get Moss comparisons.


Sure enough. But looking at the list of guys in that thread there's one thing in common. They're all pro bowlers or former stars. Noone is comparing Moore to Doug Gabriel, Raghib Ismael, or Mervyn Fernandez, or whomever he legitimately compares to both in style and level of play. Every guy they are comparing to is coincidentally known for a high level of play that Moore has not even remotely reached.


The guys he's compared to are good because he has played good and they are used as reference because they're references at the WR position. If Moore had played like trash he wouldn't be compared at all or maybe to Todd Watkins...
Anyway, what you're doing is picking a few over the top comments and running with it to make your own over the top comment and generalizing a fan base. What's the point? Go to any team forum on this site and you'll find the same over the top comments about some of their young players.


Fair enough, and true. It's my opinion, and it's only an opinion, that a large portion of Raider fans are addicted to potential (moreso than other fans) after being fed a steady diet of it in our draftees for 25 years. And that those same fans weigh potential too heavily, almost as if wishing makes reality. And it doesn't.


Last edited by holyghost on Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:


If you're talking about what he could become, how can that be argued. That's entirely my point. Other fans watch other players become or not become. Raider fans talk endlessly about what a player "could" become. But for 25 years there aren't many who have become much at all.


But that can be argued? That's quantifiable? That's not just your opinion based on an impression?
So what was the point of your rant again?


Yes, how good a guy is today is quantifiable. And past production as well as present production defines that. It doesn't? It's called performance. You know, on the football field? In the NFL? Playing football? Not how fast, or how close, or who he's like, or how he almost this or almost that, or any of that crap. Per - For - Mance.


That wasn't what i was talking about. Is Raiders fans being more guilty of that than other fan base quantifiable?
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:


If you're talking about what he could become, how can that be argued. That's entirely my point. Other fans watch other players become or not become. Raider fans talk endlessly about what a player "could" become. But for 25 years there aren't many who have become much at all.


But that can be argued? That's quantifiable? That's not just your opinion based on an impression?
So what was the point of your rant again?


Yes, how good a guy is today is quantifiable. And past production as well as present production defines that. It doesn't? It's called performance. You know, on the football field? In the NFL? Playing football? Not how fast, or how close, or who he's like, or how he almost this or almost that, or any of that crap. Per - For - Mance.


That wasn't what i was talking about. Is Raiders fans being more guilty of that than other fan base quantifiable?
Nope, not quantifiable. A opinion. And I believe it to be a credible opinion, because of the nature of the way this team was run for the last 25-30 years. Potential weighed heavily with the choosing of our personnel, moreso than other teams. And so the fans look to that potential as if it has value. Well, it doesn't if that potential doesn't turn into performance. And that potential does not equate to performance. But I feel the lines between the two get blurred by Raider fans way too often.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:


If you're talking about what he could become, how can that be argued. That's entirely my point. Other fans watch other players become or not become. Raider fans talk endlessly about what a player "could" become. But for 25 years there aren't many who have become much at all.


But that can be argued? That's quantifiable? That's not just your opinion based on an impression?
So what was the point of your rant again?


Yes, how good a guy is today is quantifiable. And past production as well as present production defines that. It doesn't? It's called performance. You know, on the football field? In the NFL? Playing football? Not how fast, or how close, or who he's like, or how he almost this or almost that, or any of that crap. Per - For - Mance.


That wasn't what i was talking about. Is Raiders fans being more guilty of that than other fan base quantifiable?
Nope, not quantifiable. A opinion. And I believe it to be a credible opinion, because of the nature of the way this team was run for the last 25-30 years. Potential weighed heavily with the choosing of our personnel, moreso than other teams. And so the fans look to that potential as if it has value. Well, it doesn't if that potential doesn't turn into performance. And that potential does not equate to performance. But I feel the lines between the two get blurred by Raider fans way too often.


Well, you have every right to have that opinion just like people have every right to have the opinion that player X has the potential to become a good player. But honestly, as far as this forum is concerned, praises and criticism are well balanced.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just disagree.
No team in the last 30 years has seen more overhyped picks and signings than we have. And I believe it's bred a tendency to look at potential heavier than it should be.

Just off the top of my head:
Aundray Bruce, Gerard Warren, Larry Brown, Desmond Howard, Raghib Ismail, Warren Sapp, Jamarcus Russell, Jeff George, Matt Leinart, Jerry Porter, Nnamdi Asomugha, Kwame Harris, Andre Ware, Rashaan Salaam, Michael Huff, Carson Palmer, Richard Seymour, Trace Armstrong, David Klingler, Dana Stubblefield, Sam Adams, Kerry Collins, Tyrone Wheatley, Randy Moss, Daunte Culpepper, Andre Carter, John Henderson, Javon Walker, Jason Campbell, Kamerion Wimbley, Aaron Curry...

What they have in common - either former first round picks who pretty much busted, former stars on their way out, former Heisman winners or one game heroes, in any case all packed with more potential than performance. It's a way of life to grab these guys and hope for glory, for a Raider fan. It's bred an addiction to exactly what Al Davis lusted after. A power packed roster, if only the guys could "put it all together" here.
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