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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8244
Location: CA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigMike1b wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


+1

too funny. Shame on Moore for not outproducing Wallace last season Laughing


He served that one up on a platter. Laughing
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10109
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


Let's see how good Moore would do with Leftwhich or Batch slinging the rock to him as opposed to Palmer.


Probably not well, but neither did Wallace in the ONE game he played with either of those guys. Think before you speak, Wallace had a pro bowl qb his entire career.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


Let's see how good Moore would do with Leftwhich or Batch slinging the rock to him as opposed to Palmer.


How many game has Leftwich started? Laughing


Laughing

Exactly. Unbelievable. Not to mention Wallace only had what? 24 yards in that game Laughing
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


Let's see how good Moore would do with Leftwhich or Batch slinging the rock to him as opposed to Palmer.


How many game has Leftwich started? Laughing


He's played in 2 started 1. How many drops have both have? How many targets have both gotten? Who else is on the respective corps? I'm not saying Moore sucks or anything like that, he just isn't on the same level as mike Wallace. To me Moore is a second tier WR with potential to be in the top.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8244
Location: CA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


Let's see how good Moore would do with Leftwhich or Batch slinging the rock to him as opposed to Palmer.


How many game has Leftwich started? Laughing


He's played in 2 started 1. How many drops have both have? How many targets have both gotten? Who else is on the respective corps? I'm not saying Moore sucks or anything like that, he just isn't on the same level as mike Wallace. To me Moore is a second tier WR with potential to be in the top.


Not sure why you brought up their QB's, but I don't think Moores as good as Wallace yet either, regardless of what the stats say. It's just funny how comparing a 2nd year WRs rookie stats to a 4th year WR is fine, but comparing both of their stats this season isn't. And this is in a post talking about biases. It's like, come on bro.


Last edited by Darkness on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


UYYY Jeesh. Another useless argument ith you where the whole base of discussion stretches outside of any point made before, bit by bit, until it has nothing to do with the original point or purpose. Yay.

My statistical comparison was only to illustrate one point, and one point only. Wallace has had success, and performance. Moore has not. I don't care if he's a rookie who played one game. Raider fans pump their guys up endlessly, but until it shows up on the field, it's just pumping and not performance. One after another, we have seen flashes on this team come and go, and so very few worth the hype Raider fans attribute to them along the way.

I'll reserve my fanhood of Moore as a star in waiting, until it's no longer in waiting and he becomes a star by playing like one.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


Let's see how good Moore would do with Leftwhich or Batch slinging the rock to him as opposed to Palmer.


How many game has Leftwich started? Laughing


He's played in 2 started 1. How many drops have both have? How many targets have both gotten? Who else is on the respective corps? I'm not saying Moore sucks or anything like that, he just isn't on the same level as mike Wallace. To me Moore is a second tier WR with potential to be in the top.


Not sure why you brought up their QB's, but I don't think Moores as good as Wallace yet either, regardless of what the stats say. It's just funny how comparing a 2nd year WRs rookie stats to a 4th year WR is fine, but comparing both of their stats this season isn't. And this is in a post talking about biases. It's like, come on bro.


Is this a post about biases, or did you make it one by levitating away from the point so you could invent an argument?

It's a post about Curry, which became a post lamenting losing Curry as if he was ever some great shakes, which became a post about how Raider fans desperately cling to every bit of potential a prospective and unproven player has, all the while neglecting the reality of their performance rather than the gleaming illusion of their potential. We have lost a truckload of games waiting on potential.

Is any Raider fan out there tired of eating up potential and feeding on unearned hype, and selling ourselves short on actual production and performance?
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8244
Location: CA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Well I wouldn't bring up stats on a season not completed, that's for sure. Then you add in "before this past game vs. the Saints", as if the game vs. the Saints where Moore was a mess doesn't count toward the Raiders season..
And to say Moore is out producing Wallace is a stretch regardless, it's pretty even.

Moore has 11 less receptions, 21 more yards, 1 less touchdown, on a slow year for Wallace. Lest we forget we throw almost more than any other team in the league, so Moore gets more stats due to that?

Once again, the point is that while Moore may one day emerge to be the equal of a guy like Wallace, who by the way I wouldn't even class in the top 10 receivers in the league, Wallace has performance to back him up and Moore has potential. Performance vs. potential. Raider fans love potential. Performance makes wins and stars.


You wouldnt bring up stats in a season not completed, but youd compare a rookies stats to a player in his 4th year? Ironic that youre talking about bias. Moore's played 1 less game then Wallace, but is still out producing him....


UYYY Jeesh. Another useless argument ith you where the whole base of discussion stretches outside of any point made before, bit by bit, until it has nothing to do with the original point or purpose. Yay.

My statistical comparison was only to illustrate one point, and one point only. Wallace has had success, and performance. Moore has not. I don't care if he's a rookie who played one game. Raider fans pump their guys up endlessly, but until it shows up on the field, it's just pumping and not performance. One after another, we have seen flashes on this team come and go, and so very few worth the hype Raider fans attribute to them along the way.

I'll reserve my fanhood of Moore as a star in waiting, until it's no longer in waiting and he becomes a star by playing like one.


For the first 16 games of Moore's career, he recorded over 900 yards receiving and 7 TD's. For the 15 games Moore's played with Palmer starting, he's recorded 990 yards, and 8 TD's.

You don't think he's had success or performed? Or is this another case of you exaggerating to make a point, which you admittedly do a lot?


Last edited by Darkness on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let' return to the point.

Is Mike Wallace a better player than Moore? Yes.
Can Moore one day be as good as Wallace? Yes.
Is talking about Moore being as good as Wallace one day, talk about potential? Yes.
Do I care about talking about the potential of our players any more, while we lose games waiting for that potential to arrive, which it doesn't far more than it does? No.

That was my only point. We are what we are, today, right now. If they gave the Raiders 3 years off from losing games so we could develop our potential while all the other teams play their games, then maybe our team wouldn't be a losing team 3 years from now. But we're a losing team because we have potential and the teams that beat us have performance. So I think all in all I'm just really tired of talking about potential and ready to judge by performance and performance alone.

I don't really care about Moore's stats for the first 16 games of his career, or how they compare to Wallace. He ain't a star yet, he may the potential to be one which I do not personally believe, but still it is possible. It's just more talk of potential.


Last edited by holyghost on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Let' return to the point.

Is Mike Wallace a better player than Moore? Yes.
Can Moore one day be as good as Wallace? Yes.
Is talking about Moore being as good as Wallace one day, talk about potential? Yes.
Do I care about talking about the potential of our players any more, while we lose games waiting for that potential to arrive, which it doesn't far more than it does? No.

That was my only point. We are what we are, today, right now. If they gave the Raiders 3 years off from losing games so we could develop our potential, then maybe our team wouldn't be a losing team. But we're a losing team because we have potential and the teams that beat us have performance. So I think all in all I'm just really tired of talking about potential and ready to judge by performance and performance alone.


No, you clearly aren't. Laughing
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Let' return to the point.

Is Mike Wallace a better player than Moore? Yes.
Can Moore one day be as good as Wallace? Yes.
Is talking about Moore being as good as Wallace one day, talk about potential? Yes.
Do I care about talking about the potential of our players any more, while we lose games waiting for that potential to arrive, which it doesn't far more than it does? No.

That was my only point. We are what we are, today, right now. If they gave the Raiders 3 years off from losing games so we could develop our potential, then maybe our team wouldn't be a losing team. But we're a losing team because we have potential and the teams that beat us have performance. So I think all in all I'm just really tired of talking about potential and ready to judge by performance and performance alone.


No, you clearly aren't. Laughing


I am sorry, I missed the part where Moore is outplaying Wallace this year. Doesn't look like it to me.. 11 more receptions on 2 more targest. 21 less yards, 1 more TD? And the part where Wallace has had 2 100 yard seasons, and a pro bowl nod, and an 89 yard 1 TD super bowl performance. Or maybe you missed that part. Maybe you missed the part where Moore had a vomit game just last week you tried to omit from reality, which contributed mightily to the loss. Or the game earlier this year where he dropped a first down and a touchdown in our loss. Or the last 3 game stretch where he has had 25 targets and 9 receptions, contributing to us getting demolished in each game. Maybe you missed that part. The part where while he may have potential, he is horribly inconsistent..


Last edited by holyghost on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.


Comparisons to Jerry Rice? Where? I'm willing to acknowledge that Moore has had success and shown he can perform. You're not, despite stats to prove it. It's clear who's living in reality and who's not.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.


Comparisons to Jerry Rice? Where? I'm willing to acknowledge that Moore has had success and shown he can perform. You're not, despite stats to prove it. It's clear who's living in reality and who's not.


In the Denarious Moore - Superstar in waiting thread.

Enjoy your reality.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 34090
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Then I come in here to a thread talking about Moore as a superstar in waiting, with comparisons to Jerry Rice. And I am thinking to myself, are these dudes existing in the same reality?!

You're the winner Darkness, Moore is the second coming, the next Moeaki.


Comparisons to Jerry Rice? Where? I'm willing to acknowledge that Moore has had success and shown he can perform. You're not, despite stats to prove it. It's clear who's living in reality and who's not.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455940

Actually, its funny cause some Raider fans joked about the Moeaki thing on the second page in there Laughing
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