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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5632
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1WngdAngel wrote:
DaMike wrote:
1WngdAngel wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
I know we may need a LB.

But how can Emery not go offense early and often in the draft with how baldy the weaknesses of this team have been exposed.

Another offseason ignoring the offense would turn the attention from Jerry not doing anything to Emery now ignoring the OL for a 2nd year.
We also really need a new MLB. If Urlacher leaves we can't have Roach at MLB. That weakens 2 spots greatly. MLB and SLB.


Nick Roach can easily cover up Urlacher's on field play.

And no draft pick is going to cover up his leadership.

I think we draft a LB in the 4th round.

I feel more comfortable with Roach starting at MLB than,

Kellen Davis at TE
Webb at LT
Brown/Williams at LG
Garza at C
Scott at RT
Roach has proven to me that he definitely can't fill the void at MLB. He needs to stay at SLB.


But Kellen Davis and our OL have shown they should not be in the NFL.

So for me it is about priorities.
True but for me it's about value. They're all needs.


Ignoring the offense for another year would be down right stupid. It's time for this team, it's management, and fans to step into the modern NFL and realize the offense, the side of the ball responsible for scoring points that win games, is vastly more important than anything else. I honestly couldn't care less if Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman, Peppers, or anyone else left this team is some fashion, you draft offense and make it so you can put points on the board and win.
The 49ers and there top D just beat the Patriots. It's a team game. You can have a great D and no O, and you cant have a great O and no D. If we spent a 1st on a MLB that doesn't mean we would neglect the offense. We have other picks and free agency.


Uh no, the 49ers and their top D gave up 34 to the Patriots and their offense dropped 41 and won the game. For all the crying fans did about Jerry Angelo disregarding the offense they are no better, always want the defensive player. Build an offense for the first time in team history and go out and win some games.
The 49ers won because they have a better team. The last time we played the Pats they put up about 34 on us in the first half.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.


For me TE, RB, LB and C are all positions that have become devalued.

I agree that MLB is an important position and needs to be addressed at some point this offseason. But the lack of a middle of the field recoeving threat also hurts our offence.

Our offence is drop back and throw it to Marshall and while I think Jeffery is going to be good we simply do not have another weapon and we need at least 3 in a quality passing attack and with Bennett's disappearance we need another weapon from somewhere.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.


For me TE, RB, LB and C are all positions that have become devalued.

I agree that MLB is an important position and needs to be addressed at some point this offseason. But the lack of a middle of the field recoeving threat also hurts our offence.

Our offence is drop back and throw it to Marshall and while I think Jeffery is going to be good we simply do not have another weapon and we need at least 3 in a quality passing attack and with Bennett's disappearance we need another weapon from somewhere.

I disagree on TE and C being devalued. Top centers now are getting paid almost as well as top tier LT these days, and the TE position in this era is more prevalent than ever in the passing game. Every team (except the Bears apparently) is looking for the next Gronk, Witten, Graham, Gonzalez or Vernon Davis.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9848
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.


For me TE, RB, LB and C are all positions that have become devalued.

I agree that MLB is an important position and needs to be addressed at some point this offseason. But the lack of a middle of the field recoeving threat also hurts our offence.

Our offence is drop back and throw it to Marshall and while I think Jeffery is going to be good we simply do not have another weapon and we need at least 3 in a quality passing attack and with Bennett's disappearance we need another weapon from somewhere.

I disagree on TE and C being devalued. Top centers now are getting paid almost as well as top tier LT these days, and the TE position in this era is more prevalent than ever in the passing game. Every team (except the Bears apparently) is looking for the next Gronk, Witten, Graham, Gonzalez or Vernon Davis.


Sorry I meant you still see a bias towards them on draft day. Gronk 2nd round and Graham 3rd round shows that.

I think that for us and our exceptional weakness on offense that TE is as big a need as Urlacher's replacement.

Roach has done a decent job.
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AZBearsFan


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Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.


For me TE, RB, LB and C are all positions that have become devalued.

I agree that MLB is an important position and needs to be addressed at some point this offseason. But the lack of a middle of the field recoeving threat also hurts our offence.

Our offence is drop back and throw it to Marshall and while I think Jeffery is going to be good we simply do not have another weapon and we need at least 3 in a quality passing attack and with Bennett's disappearance we need another weapon from somewhere.

I disagree on TE and C being devalued. Top centers now are getting paid almost as well as top tier LT these days, and the TE position in this era is more prevalent than ever in the passing game. Every team (except the Bears apparently) is looking for the next Gronk, Witten, Graham, Gonzalez or Vernon Davis.


Sorry I meant you still see a bias towards them on draft day. Gronk 2nd round and Graham 3rd round shows that.

I think that for us and our exceptional weakness on offense that TE is as big a need as Urlacher's replacement.

Roach has done a decent job.

Gronk was a lock 1st rounder before being hurt his entire last season at Arizona and Graham played only 1 season of college football, but your point is understood. I don't agree that our TE need is as big as our MLB need though. We need a capable secondary or tertiary target at TE. A guy to make 2-4 catches a game. IMO that can be a mid round pick or a reasonably priced UFA. We need a 3 down starter at MLB. A real OC will be better able to use our slot receivers (Bennett has been good there under every other OC) which will also help the passing game, and Jeffery should improve as our #2 WR next season as well. The biggest issues with our passing game are still the OL deficiencies and the play calling and not the pass catchers IMO.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9848
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.


For me TE, RB, LB and C are all positions that have become devalued.

I agree that MLB is an important position and needs to be addressed at some point this offseason. But the lack of a middle of the field recoeving threat also hurts our offence.

Our offence is drop back and throw it to Marshall and while I think Jeffery is going to be good we simply do not have another weapon and we need at least 3 in a quality passing attack and with Bennett's disappearance we need another weapon from somewhere.

I disagree on TE and C being devalued. Top centers now are getting paid almost as well as top tier LT these days, and the TE position in this era is more prevalent than ever in the passing game. Every team (except the Bears apparently) is looking for the next Gronk, Witten, Graham, Gonzalez or Vernon Davis.


Sorry I meant you still see a bias towards them on draft day. Gronk 2nd round and Graham 3rd round shows that.

I think that for us and our exceptional weakness on offense that TE is as big a need as Urlacher's replacement.

Roach has done a decent job.

Gronk was a lock 1st rounder before being hurt his entire last season at Arizona and Graham played only 1 season of college football, but your point is understood. I don't agree that our TE need is as big as our MLB need though. We need a capable secondary or tertiary target at TE. A guy to make 2-4 catches a game. IMO that can be a mid round pick or a reasonably priced UFA. We need a 3 down starter at MLB. A real OC will be better able to use our slot receivers (Bennett has been good there under every other OC) which will also help the passing game, and Jeffery should improve as our #2 WR next season as well. The biggest issues with our passing game are still the OL deficiencies and the play calling and not the pass catchers IMO.


There is a chance that Earl Bennett is not that good and we over rated him because we were desperate for a WR.

I am not advocating taking a TE in the 1st round. For me it is impossible for us to sign 4 FA starting OLmen so we need to address it in the draft. We have 1 starting NFL OLmen on our team in Lance Louis.

If I am sitting there in the 2nd round with 2 equally rated players at TE and MLB I will probably take the TE because we do not have an NFL player at that position and we have a solid NFL player in Nick Roach at MLB.

But I am an offensive thinker.
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AZBearsFan


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Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Agreed...no one will convince me that a TE is more important that finding a replacement if Urlacher goes.

I agree IF Lovie is still here. What 54 does in the Lovie 2 is more important than what MLB do in some other schemes.


I would feel that way regardless of scheme…a quality TE would be great but in the vast majority of offences…including ours with Marshall here…the TE would be nothing more than a #2 target at best…the MLB is expected to be the leader of the entire D while making the calls and most importantly adjustments on the fly…it’s just a much more important and valuable position IMO.


For me TE, RB, LB and C are all positions that have become devalued.

I agree that MLB is an important position and needs to be addressed at some point this offseason. But the lack of a middle of the field recoeving threat also hurts our offence.

Our offence is drop back and throw it to Marshall and while I think Jeffery is going to be good we simply do not have another weapon and we need at least 3 in a quality passing attack and with Bennett's disappearance we need another weapon from somewhere.

I disagree on TE and C being devalued. Top centers now are getting paid almost as well as top tier LT these days, and the TE position in this era is more prevalent than ever in the passing game. Every team (except the Bears apparently) is looking for the next Gronk, Witten, Graham, Gonzalez or Vernon Davis.


Sorry I meant you still see a bias towards them on draft day. Gronk 2nd round and Graham 3rd round shows that.

I think that for us and our exceptional weakness on offense that TE is as big a need as Urlacher's replacement.

Roach has done a decent job.

Gronk was a lock 1st rounder before being hurt his entire last season at Arizona and Graham played only 1 season of college football, but your point is understood. I don't agree that our TE need is as big as our MLB need though. We need a capable secondary or tertiary target at TE. A guy to make 2-4 catches a game. IMO that can be a mid round pick or a reasonably priced UFA. We need a 3 down starter at MLB. A real OC will be better able to use our slot receivers (Bennett has been good there under every other OC) which will also help the passing game, and Jeffery should improve as our #2 WR next season as well. The biggest issues with our passing game are still the OL deficiencies and the play calling and not the pass catchers IMO.


There is a chance that Earl Bennett is not that good and we over rated him because we were desperate for a WR.

I am not advocating taking a TE in the 1st round. For me it is impossible for us to sign 4 FA starting OLmen so we need to address it in the draft. We have 1 starting NFL OLmen on our team in Lance Louis.

If I am sitting there in the 2nd round with 2 equally rated players at TE and MLB I will probably take the TE because we do not have an NFL player at that position and we have a solid NFL player in Nick Roach at MLB.

But I am an offensive thinker.

See for Earl as a slot receiver I look at 2010 when he was used almost exclusively in the slot and was last healthy the full season, and had 46/561/3. Especially playing with Marshall getting the vast majority of targets, that's what I'm looking for as a slot receiver. That's 3 catches for 35 yards per week. Especially if you're also adding a capable TE into the mix, have Forte getting the ball out of the backfield and if Alshon takes the step next year that many expect, that's plenty.

As for Roach as a starting MLB, I only see that working if Lovie's scheme is still in place, and even then it's less than ideal IMO. Really though assuming neither need is filled in FA pre-draft it all depends on who is on the board. Of Eifert or Ertz is available at our 2nd for instance it would be hard to pass them up there for any LB that may be available there.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 2nd round we should be staring at some top LB and TE talent.

I really don't like spending a 1st round pick on LB unless your getting Pat Willis. To me it is like RB where so many good LBs come cheap in rounds after the 1st.

I would break that policy for Te'o.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you guys place round designations on positions? We don't even know what the board will look like at this point.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
How can you guys place round designations on positions? We don't even know what the board will look like at this point.
It's speculation. Which is the premise of this website and many websites.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
IronMike84 wrote:
How can you guys place round designations on positions? We don't even know what the board will look like at this point.
It's speculation. Which is the premise of this website and many websites.

Well as long as you admit it...
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...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
IronMike84 wrote:
How can you guys place round designations on positions? We don't even know what the board will look like at this point.
It's speculation. Which is the premise of this website and many websites.

Well as long as you admit it...
All talk regarding the draft, before the draft is speculation. Nothing wrong with it though.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Brad Wing from LSU is going to declare. Kid is a stud but has off the field concerns which is pretty funny imo. I'd be all for drafting this kid.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LB Khaseem Greene [Rutgers] is playing Virginia Tech right now and he looks like Navarro Bowmans little brother.
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