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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5440
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again that still doesn't matter. If every other OT gives up 20 sacks and Webb gives up 19 does that mean Webb is great or that everyone sucks? (the answer is everyone sucks)
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Again that still doesn't matter. If every other OT gives up 20 sacks and Webb gives up 19 does that mean Webb is great or that everyone sucks? (the answer is everyone sucks)


No, it means that you have a better option than many.


What Is your plan to upgrade the LT position?

We have limited funds and limited options as many will be franchise tagged. We also pick in the late 1st round.

I am all for Ryan Clady, but it is not happening, so why not focus on realistic goals like LG and RT.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Again that still doesn't matter. If every other OT gives up 20 sacks and Webb gives up 19 does that mean Webb is great or that everyone sucks? (the answer is everyone sucks)


No, it means that you have a better option than many.


What Is your plan to upgrade the LT position?

We have limited funds and limited options as many will be franchise tagged. We also pick in the late 1st round.

I am all for Ryan Clady, but it is not happening, so why not focus on realistic goals like LG and RT.
I think you're just much higher on Webb then you should be. You tend to overreact and underreact a lot. Clady isnt the only option we have. There are other FAs and the draft. It might not even need to be a 1st round pick to be an upgrade.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9655
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Again that still doesn't matter. If every other OT gives up 20 sacks and Webb gives up 19 does that mean Webb is great or that everyone sucks? (the answer is everyone sucks)


No, it means that you have a better option than many.


What Is your plan to upgrade the LT position?

We have limited funds and limited options as many will be franchise tagged. We also pick in the late 1st round.

I am all for Ryan Clady, but it is not happening, so why not focus on realistic goals like LG and RT.
I think you're just much higher on Webb then you should be. You tend to overreact and underreact a lot. Clady isnt the only option we have. There are other FAs and the draft. It might not even need to be a 1st round pick to be an upgrade.


Who do I overreact and under react too?

I said Chris Williams sucks and he does suck.

I said Carimi stunk at RT and 2 weeks later he was benched.

I also said that Cordy Glenn could play LT and that Orlando Franklin was going to be a good OLmen in the NFL, so just maybe I know this position.

So you could normally say that I am over critical of players, so the fact that I am not about Webb may tell you something.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I should clarify my position.

I do not think Webb is good, I think he is totally average, but I also realize that a) it is going to be expensive and difficult to replace him, and b) we have worse players playing at LG and RT.

Therefor the easiest way and most financially viable for us to improve the OL is to look at the LG or RT positions.

If we can get Clady, Albert or Bushrod I will be happy, but the same reason we want them is the same reason their teams won't let them go.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5440
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5440
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Again that still doesn't matter. If every other OT gives up 20 sacks and Webb gives up 19 does that mean Webb is great or that everyone sucks? (the answer is everyone sucks)


No, it means that you have a better option than many.


What Is your plan to upgrade the LT position?

We have limited funds and limited options as many will be franchise tagged. We also pick in the late 1st round.

I am all for Ryan Clady, but it is not happening, so why not focus on realistic goals like LG and RT.
I think you're just much higher on Webb then you should be. You tend to overreact and underreact a lot. Clady isnt the only option we have. There are other FAs and the draft. It might not even need to be a 1st round pick to be an upgrade.


Who do I overreact and under react too?

I said Chris Williams sucks and he does suck.

I said Carimi stunk at RT and 2 weeks later he was benched.

I also said that Cordy Glenn could play LT and that Orlando Franklin was going to be a good OLmen in the NFL, so just maybe I know this position.

So you could normally say that I am over critical of players, so the fact that I am not about Webb may tell you something.
I was high on Glenn and Franklin too.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9655
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5440
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
you can't assume your 1st roun pick won't be able to play.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9655
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
you can't assume your 1st roun pick won't be able to play.


I know that is the Angelo scars coming through.

I need 1 starter on the OL from free agency and 1 from the draft what positions they play is up in the air.

But I think we need to temper the expectations at LT.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5440
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
you can't assume your 1st roun pick won't be able to play.


I know that is the Angelo scars coming through.

I need 1 starter on the OL from free agency and 1 from the draft what positions they play is up in the air.

But I think we need to temper the expectations at LT.
I wouldnt draft a RT in the 1st which is why the Carimi pick was stupid but we really had no choice since Tice obviously wanted Webb at LT which has been a bad move. LT is the obvious pick for me. Webb has proven that he shouldnt be given a starting role. If he actually beats someone out then ok but he never has. (I dont count Williams as a true competition)
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9655
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
you can't assume your 1st roun pick won't be able to play.


I know that is the Angelo scars coming through.

I need 1 starter on the OL from free agency and 1 from the draft what positions they play is up in the air.

But I think we need to temper the expectations at LT.
I wouldnt draft a RT in the 1st which is why the Carimi pick was stupid but we really had no choice since Tice obviously wanted Webb at LT which has been a bad move. LT is the obvious pick for me. Webb has proven that he shouldnt be given a starting role. If he actually beats someone out then ok but he never has. (I dont count Williams as a true competition)


If we can find a true LT at the end of round 1 then I am all for it.

LT 1st round pick
LG Carimi
C Levitre (Free Agent)
RG Louis/Garza is Louis hurt
RT Webb
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5440
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
you can't assume your 1st roun pick won't be able to play.


I know that is the Angelo scars coming through.

I need 1 starter on the OL from free agency and 1 from the draft what positions they play is up in the air.

But I think we need to temper the expectations at LT.
I wouldnt draft a RT in the 1st which is why the Carimi pick was stupid but we really had no choice since Tice obviously wanted Webb at LT which has been a bad move. LT is the obvious pick for me. Webb has proven that he shouldnt be given a starting role. If he actually beats someone out then ok but he never has. (I dont count Williams as a true competition)


If we can find a true LT at the end of round 1 then I am all for it.

LT 1st round pick
LG Carimi
C Levitre (Free Agent)
RG Louis/Garza is Louis hurt
RT Webb
I cant see Buffalo letting Levitre go. I dont even trust Webb to play RT. He's sucked there too. My ideal would be Fisher in the 1st and Khalid Holmes as well with Andre Smith in FA.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9655
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
DaMike wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My ideal and realistic scenario

LT: Webb, because the other options suck worse.

LG: Carimi, try and get some value and he looked good at LG at the Senior Bowl.

C: Jonathan Cooper [1st round], athletic an physical.

RG: Louis/Garza, if Louis is on PUP we go to Garza for 6 weeks.

RT; Andre Smith [Free Agent] he is a RT only so I think he hits the market and costs about 1/2 of what Clady would if he became a free agent.
I want

LT Eric Fisher (1st)
LG Carimi
C Garza
RG Louis
RT Andre Smith

I think Smith would be a real nice pickup since he can definitely start at 3 spots.


If Fisher was there at 27 I would also like the plan, but I doubt he is.

We also have to remember that just because Fisher gets picked in the late 1st round does not mean that he can play.

Ex. Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod.

Your plan works as well, I just don't agree with people who think we automatically can upgrade at LT.
you can't assume your 1st roun pick won't be able to play.


I know that is the Angelo scars coming through.

I need 1 starter on the OL from free agency and 1 from the draft what positions they play is up in the air.

But I think we need to temper the expectations at LT.
I wouldnt draft a RT in the 1st which is why the Carimi pick was stupid but we really had no choice since Tice obviously wanted Webb at LT which has been a bad move. LT is the obvious pick for me. Webb has proven that he shouldnt be given a starting role. If he actually beats someone out then ok but he never has. (I dont count Williams as a true competition)


If we can find a true LT at the end of round 1 then I am all for it.

LT 1st round pick
LG Carimi
C Levitre (Free Agent)
RG Louis/Garza is Louis hurt
RT Webb
I cant see Buffalo letting Levitre go. I dont even trust Webb to play RT. He's sucked there too. My ideal would be Fisher in the 1st and Khalid Holmes as well with Andre Smith in FA.


Levitre will hit the market because no one can tag a interior OLmen and I do not know what Buffalos cap looks like after the defensive spending, but who knows.

If we got late 1st LT we are going to need to do some deep scouting in case Fisher does not fall.
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