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NFL suspends Ravens Safety Ed Reed; Suspension lifted p.6
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NateDawg wrote:
This surprises me. It's about time that they back up the talk though. If they are going to attribute brain damage and death to concussions, how can you not suspend a guy for repeat violations? That is such a small price to pay for potentially contribute to someone's long term health. Let's face it, fines don't do much to deter someone from hitting a defenseless player in the head. If they start handing out suspensions, maybe players will begin to think twice. Talk is cheap. I hope future repeat offenses are handled with suspensions as well.


I feel the same way. At first I hated the suspension, but then I realized that's cause I really like Reed.

I'm all for player safety, and if this is what it takes, so be it.
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49erjunkie


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good. By going after a big time name like Reed the league is sending a message that this will not be tolerated.
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coors


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree with this decision by the NFL. If anything, fine the guy more than you already have... but don't take away a game from him. Ed is a future first ballot Hall of Famer, who is playing the way that he was taught, they way he was brought up, the way that he will teach his own kids, and the way that has gotten him to be a future hall of famer in the first place. I just simply don't agree with these new "rules" or the enforcement of said rules.

Kicking the guy out for this infraction.. and in turn having him lose out on $400,000+ is now affecting his livelihood.. I just have a hard time standing with the NFL on this one...
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coors wrote:
I don't agree with this decision by the NFL. If anything, fine the guy more than you already have... but don't take away a game from him. Ed is a future first ballot Hall of Famer, who is playing the way that he was taught, they way he was brought up, the way that he will teach his own kids, and the way that has gotten him to be a future hall of famer in the first place. I just simply don't agree with these new "rules" or the enforcement of said rules.

Kicking the guy out for this infraction.. and in turn having him lose out on $400,000+ is now affecting his livelihood.. I just have a hard time standing with the NFL on this one...


If he teaches his kids to play like that he should have them taken away too.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repeat offender. Prison him
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Dang -- wasn't vicious, but he has been hitting guys illegally. I think a lot of it has to do with his shoulder issues, he can't wrap up well so he has to try to use his body and that comes with the territory.

Though, honestly, as much as I love Ed, I don't see this hurting our defense too much.


It does. As bad as we have been in everything else defensive-wise, and the fact that we lost 2 of our top 3 corners, we still allow the fewest passing TD's in the league (for the second year running). I gave a lot of credit to Reed for this stat last year, when we had a strong pass rush and healthy secondary, but now Reed's affect on this is even more apparent. While Reed can't tackle at even an average level anymore, he still takes away the deep bomb throw better than anyone else in the league. Plus his savvy in the red zone (where defensive positioning becomes so important) is a big reason why we we're number 1 in that category as well. Add on the fact that he's a ball magnet (3 INTs, 2 FR in 10 games is disappointing for him), and the fact that opposing QB's think a split second longer throwing at him, and you have a real loss.

Depending on whether Ben is out in 2 weeks, he might be an even bigger loss against Rivers and the Chargers.
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flash22


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coors wrote:
I don't agree with this decision by the NFL. If anything, fine the guy more than you already have... but don't take away a game from him. Ed is a future first ballot Hall of Famer, who is playing the way that he was taught, they way he was brought up, the way that he will teach his own kids, and the way that has gotten him to be a future hall of famer in the first place. I just simply don't agree with these new "rules" or the enforcement of said rules.

Kicking the guy out for this infraction.. and in turn having him lose out on $400,000+ is now affecting his livelihood.. I just have a hard time standing with the NFL on this one...


Aaahhh the problem...i found it.
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fretgod99


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coors wrote:
Kicking the guy out for this infraction.. and in turn having him lose out on $400,000+ is now affecting his livelihood.. I just have a hard time standing with the NFL on this one...
Allowing him to commit helmet-to-helmet hits is potentially affecting other players livelihoods, in addition to potentially affecting his.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coors wrote:
I don't agree with this decision by the NFL. If anything, fine the guy more than you already have... but don't take away a game from him. Ed is a future first ballot Hall of Famer, who is playing the way that he was taught, they way he was brought up, the way that he will teach his own kids, and the way that has gotten him to be a future hall of famer in the first place. I just simply don't agree with these new "rules" or the enforcement of said rules.

Kicking the guy out for this infraction.. and in turn having him lose out on $400,000+ is now affecting his livelihood.. I just have a hard time standing with the NFL on this one...

They are... an entire game check. Something like $400,000. Message sent. Knock it off. We don't play like this in the NFL anymore. He's been warned. He's been fined. Hopefully this wakes him up and sends a strong message to the rest of the league.
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RuskieTitan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Reed needs to clean his act up, or he'll end up on the sideline sooner in his career than he anticipated.

Hopefully this will send him a message.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Dang -- wasn't vicious, but he has been hitting guys illegally. I think a lot of it has to do with his shoulder issues, he can't wrap up well so he has to try to use his body and that comes with the territory.

Though, honestly, as much as I love Ed, I don't see this hurting our defense too much.


It does. As bad as we have been in everything else defensive-wise, and the fact that we lost 2 of our top 3 corners, we still allow the fewest passing TD's in the league (for the second year running). I gave a lot of credit to Reed for this stat last year, when we had a strong pass rush and healthy secondary, but now Reed's affect on this is even more apparent. While Reed can't tackle at even an average level anymore, he still takes away the deep bomb throw better than anyone else in the league. Plus his savvy in the red zone (where defensive positioning becomes so important) is a big reason why we we're number 1 in that category as well. Add on the fact that he's a ball magnet (3 INTs, 2 FR in 10 games is disappointing for him), and the fact that opposing QB's think a split second longer throwing at him, and you have a real loss.
Spot on.

Everyone loves Ed Reed making the splash plays, but so much of his affectiveness over the years has come from being basically the Ravens' nuclear deterrent. Even if teams suspect he's lost a step, he ends up with interceptions just enough to make any quarterback very nervous about trying those deep balls and ending up as another victim on the never-ending Ed Reed highlight reel. We've been a top pass defense in this league over the years even when it was the likes of Fabian Washington and Frank Walker lining up at corner because Ed was roaming the deep zones and limiting the options that opposing quarterbacks have in the passing game. This year, he's the biggest reason why teams are mostly just dinking and dunking even when they have 12 seconds to throw the ball, and he's also been the catalyst for Bernard Pollard's breakout by shielding Pollard from greater coverage responsibilities and allowing him to play closer to the box. Replacing Ed Reed with the Human Cape or Idegahbo or however you spell it is a huge downgrade.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall thinking that at least one of his supposed 'helmet to helmet' hits was a BS call, so given that it seems harsh to suspend him.

But it is difficult to argue that he hasn't been pulled on this more than once this season, even if the hits didn't look that bad. If the punishment for repeatedly doing something you're not supposed to do is a suspension, then so be it.

If the game was against Kansas City, Cleveland or someone of that nature, I'd say it's not too much of a problem to miss Ed. But against the Chargers? We don't need Rivers to feel that much more comfortable passing the ball.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Dang -- wasn't vicious, but he has been hitting guys illegally. I think a lot of it has to do with his shoulder issues, he can't wrap up well so he has to try to use his body and that comes with the territory.

Though, honestly, as much as I love Ed, I don't see this hurting our defense too much.


It does. As bad as we have been in everything else defensive-wise, and the fact that we lost 2 of our top 3 corners, we still allow the fewest passing TD's in the league (for the second year running). I gave a lot of credit to Reed for this stat last year, when we had a strong pass rush and healthy secondary, but now Reed's affect on this is even more apparent. While Reed can't tackle at even an average level anymore, he still takes away the deep bomb throw better than anyone else in the league. Plus his savvy in the red zone (where defensive positioning becomes so important) is a big reason why we we're number 1 in that category as well. Add on the fact that he's a ball magnet (3 INTs, 2 FR in 10 games is disappointing for him), and the fact that opposing QB's think a split second longer throwing at him, and you have a real loss.
Spot on.

Everyone loves Ed Reed making the splash plays, but so much of his affectiveness over the years has come from being basically the Ravens' nuclear deterrent. Even if teams suspect he's lost a step, he ends up with interceptions just enough to make any quarterback very nervous about trying those deep balls and ending up as another victim on the never-ending Ed Reed highlight reel. We've been a top pass defense in this league over the years even when it was the likes of Fabian Washington and Frank Walker lining up at corner because Ed was roaming the deep zones and limiting the options that opposing quarterbacks have in the passing game. This year, he's the biggest reason why teams are mostly just dinking and dunking even when they have 12 seconds to throw the ball, and he's also been the catalyst for Bernard Pollard's breakout by shielding Pollard from greater coverage responsibilities and allowing him to play closer to the box. Replacing Ed Reed with the Human Cape or Idegahbo or however you spell it is a huge downgrade.


I agree and disagree. I see how my statement could have come off like I fully disagree though.

My disagreement comes from the fact that what we miss from Ed's presence back there, even if it's simply to deter, we can also make up for in discipline, much like we saw when we had Tom Zbikowski back there in 2010. We weren't generating the turnovers like we had hoped, but we gave up a lot less big plays. Ed's tendency to roam and use his HOF intuitions is great when it works, but it also makes us more susceptible to leaving some guys wide open which we have seen a bit this year. I agree that it may hurt us in the redzone more, but I think we will see less blown coverages overall (though it's only 1 game, so we may not see this like we would if he were gone 6+ games again).

So, I do admit that the wording was bad on my part, I meant to infer that what we miss by losing Ed, we help make up in discipline by putting another player back there who has more rigid responsiblity and will stick to the script as it's drawn up.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
snkhd09 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
drd23 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
drd23 wrote:
Sciz wrote:
So it seems they're drawing the line after three of these hits, and Reed was the lucky guy to get there first.

If true, it would have been nice to know that beforehand Confused


You shouldn't need to be told to quit breaking rules.

No, but its pretty much standard practice for the terms of punishments to do laid out in advance before they are implemented. Just look at the NBA's rules re flagrant fouls or soccer's rules regarding red-cards and the automatic suspensions they bring. They are set out in advance and everyone knows about them. That is not the case here.

How many times do laws get instituted retro-actively? (Genuine question that I don't know the answer to but I can't imagine there are many instances)


Flagrant fouls and red-cards have been around a lot longer than this new era of player safety. The NFL is kinda figuring it out as they go along

That, and you can't compare them since flagrant and red cards can get you toss from the game. You can commit an unlimited number of fouls in the NFL, outside of fighting or touching an official, and still stay in the game.


That's not true. They haven't thrown anyone out yet, but it's written in the rules that they can.

Quote:
Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.


http://nflcommunications.com/2011/12/27/definition-of-a-defenseless-player/

While i know you're talking about helmet to helmet hits, your statement isn't true. I know of at two guys (and there are probably more) that have been thrown out for personal fouls. Though they were both after the play fouls

Albert Haynesworth (for the head stomp)
Ndomukong Suh (for the arm stomp)

There are probably more. But like you're implying, none that i remember for a helmet to helmet hit.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
drd23 wrote:
Sciz wrote:
So it seems they're drawing the line after three of these hits, and Reed was the lucky guy to get there first.

If true, it would have been nice to know that beforehand Confused


You shouldn't need to be told to quit breaking rules.

I'm betting that Reed knew. Maybe the general population didn't, but i'm assuming he was issued an letter at some point saying "your next illegal would result in suspension".

Or maybe you guys have seen an article i haven't.
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