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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19344
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: |
There have been problems along every spot on the OL. C is certainly one of them. But, you are speculating on whether the C/G missed on combo blocks or cadence issues. Frankly, I don't recall there being a major problem with the C not snapping the ball at the appropriate time. I do recall last year that a ref called a false start on everybody but the center. That's an obvious C problem.
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We have Redball come out and allude to cadence issues already. You saw extreme anomalies of Witten having multiple false starts. So I don't think my contention is off base.
We do agree that there have been problems across the board. I just see view Center play this year (and the rotating door that it has been) as a bigger issue that you originally qualified it.
I don't think because another position sucks that it doesn't mean this hasn't been a problem.
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The price of progress is trusting the process.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 17983
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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HIS JAWS ARE CHOM-PING OOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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anyone think Flo is still on the street? Ahha
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Desperado82 wrote: | I have to wonder how much playing beside Bernadeuce and now Dockery is effecting Free's level of play.
I'd like to see Kowalski replace Dockery at RG for the game against Washington, but have a feeling we won't see that happen with the short week. |
Other than getting paid, the biggest change for Free was losing Kosier
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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textaz03
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 9439
Location: Land of the Jersey Devil!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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in order to bring about cutting players on this line, you have to look at the contracts. Here is what I have found
Livings - 5 year contract 18.75 M total / 3.5 M signing bonus / $1 million (2012), $1.7 million (2013), $3.4 million (2013), $4.4 million (2014) and $4.75 million (2015)
Burnindeuce - 4 year contract $11 million contract total / 3.25 M signing bonus / 2012: $1 million, 2013: $1.75 million, 2014: $2.25 million, 2015: $2.75 million
Free - 4 year contract $32 million total / $17 million guaranteed, including a $10.3 million signing bonus / 2011: $700,00, 2012: $1.2 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: $8 million
Costa - 3 year contract 1.22 M total / 2010: $320,00, 2011: $405,000, 2012: $490,000
Kowalski - 3 year contract 1.4 M total / 2011: $375,000, 2012: $465,500, 2013: $555,000
Dockery - 1 year contract for $825,000
Arkin - 4 year contract 2.5 M total / 2011: $375,000, 2012: $465,000, 2013: $555,000, 2014: $645,000
Cook - 1 year contract for $480,000
Here are the remaining CAP hits that I have found for after the 2012 season:
Cook - none
Dockery - none
Kowalski - 2013: $550,000
Arkin - 2013: $680,000 / 2014: $770,000
Costa - 2013: pending tender (RFA)
Free - 2013: $11,175,000 / 2014: $12,175,000
Burnindeuce - 2013: $2,562,500 / 2014: $3,062,500 / 2015: $3,562,500
Livings - 2013: 2.4 M / 2014: 4.1 M / 2015: 5.1 M / 2016: 5.45 M
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"Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyways" - John Wayne |
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Free needs to go. It's not my money, but I'd be damned before I gave Doug Free $7M next year.
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Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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Ace5
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 5544
Location: CT
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | This actually leads to a question. Ignore for a second the fundamental truth of OL being a unit that be virtue needs to work together to be successful. Instead I am curious how would you rank our starting OL against one another. As in, who has been the worst starter? And who has been the best?
With keeping in mind that I have missed a few games this season here would be my rankings:
1. Costa
2. Livings (although is declining)
3. Smith (although was improving, I could realistically switch the two)
4. Cook
5. Free
6. Trogdor
I didn't include Dockery and Parnell since the sample size is low. I also viewed Trogdor purely as our starting RG, not as how he played at C last game.
EDIT: Yes, I know Costa's sample size is low. He just had a really impressive game.  |
My heart aches for death and the green light at the end of Daisy's dock. For much like Gatsby, we too find ourselves believing the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that’s no matter—tomorrow we will cheer harder, stretch out our belief in the O-Line further. . . . And then one fine morning—
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
Perhaps I have blinded myself to Smith's faults this year. I have held the belief that he was the best lineman, the lone rock in the middle of the turbulent siren infested seas. Perhaps he will fall to the same fate as Free.
Kowalski looked to be a possibly solid, never spectacular player last year, but the type that could carve out a solid career with hard work. Jury is out on him, but keep expectations low.
T-Rosta and I go way back. He was #2 on my hit list to Alan Ball. I don't care how good his one game was. The day he is the best cowboys o-lineman is the day the withered husk of a soul I hold leaves me completely.
Ryan Cook is what Kowalski will be in six years in my mind. A hard worker who will surprise you with his competence but never be good enough for full time work on an above average line. Great job hitting the ground running, but when he hit full speed, it just wasn't quite enough.
Mack daddy Big Bird Deuce is a waste of space. I'd cut him tomorrow, as well as Dockery, and sign Montrae Holland, a slightly more useful space waster.
Nate Livings appeared to be acceptable at the beginning of the year, yet has been exposed as the one guy that wasn't being picked on. Now that he's being pushed around, opposing D-lines have realized his lunch money is as easy to take as any other lineman.
Doug Free! I knew him, TO, or at least I thought I did. Yet now his play has failed him and the team. What was once one of the few things anyone could point to as a success for the scouting department on the O-line is now as exposed as the bald spot on the back of his head.
Alas, perhaps there is no future in any of the players on the line. What a cruel outcome that would be.
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Desperado82
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 18179
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm calling it now, but I have a feeling this will be our offensive line next year
LT - Smith
LG - Arkin
C - Costa
RG - Warmack/Cooper
RT - Free
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R.I.P. B2TB & SA |
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textaz03
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 9439
Location: Land of the Jersey Devil!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | Free needs to go. It's not my money, but I'd be damned before I gave Doug Free $7M next year. |
we would have to eat about 7.5 M in signing bonus with cutting Free, but we would save quite a bit in Salary savings.
The biggest problem would be creating another void on the line to fill. I would seriously consider moving him inside after this season before I would cut him.
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"Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyways" - John Wayne |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | Free needs to go. It's not my money, but I'd be damned before I gave Doug Free $7M next year. |
We'd save $3m cutting him
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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dahobofest
Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| If I were Romo, I'd tell Jerry that I'm not signing a contract extension unless you redo this offensive line. |
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WizardHawk
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6943
Location: Hawkeye State
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | | Free needs to go. It's not my money, but I'd be damned before I gave Doug Free $7M next year. |
We'd save $3m cutting him |
How do we save $3M by cutting him? Looks to me like Dallas would take an $8.35M hit.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/doug-free/
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| MrDrew wrote: | | I'm pretty sure the cat destroys stuff because it hates you for shoving it in a box every night. |
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Bob Sturm just wrote probably the article on the subject (on a side note, im pretty sure he reads my posts)...
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/
| Quote: | despite thinking the offensive line could not get worse than it was in 2010, they might have actually downgraded in 2011. And then we figured out that the offensive line was even worse in 2011, we felt any change would clearly be an upgrade in 2012. And I am now about ready to admit that I may have been wrong again. This 2012 version may actually be even worse than 2011 and 2010.
Think about what that says.
They have gone from being a weakness on this team to a unit that seems incapable of allowing the offense to call any play - run or pass - with any degree of consistency. Provided that Jason Garrett turns things over to Tony Romo so that he can attempt to escape another sack, all the while, making things up as he goes, they at least have a chance to compete. |
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Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| WizardHawk wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | | Free needs to go. It's not my money, but I'd be damned before I gave Doug Free $7M next year. |
We'd save $3m cutting him |
How do we save $3M by cutting him? Looks to me like Dallas would take an $8.35M hit.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/doug-free/ |
We take $8.35m hit which is less than the $11.175m hit if we keep him
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | Bob Sturm just wrote probably the article on the subject (on a side note, im pretty sure he reads my posts)...
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/
| Quote: | despite thinking the offensive line could not get worse than it was in 2010, they might have actually downgraded in 2011. And then we figured out that the offensive line was even worse in 2011, we felt any change would clearly be an upgrade in 2012. And I am now about ready to admit that I may have been wrong again. This 2012 version may actually be even worse than 2011 and 2010.
Think about what that says.
They have gone from being a weakness on this team to a unit that seems incapable of allowing the offense to call any play - run or pass - with any degree of consistency. Provided that Jason Garrett turns things over to Tony Romo so that he can attempt to escape another sack, all the while, making things up as he goes, they at least have a chance to compete. |
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Bob just read my mind - it's been blown
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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