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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40906
Location: Probably doing something self-destructive
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Shockey1979 wrote: | | Harper41 wrote: |
I played all 4 years in high school. If my coach had an interview after a game and said yeah we put our backups in and pulled our starters because we don't really care if our backups get hurt, I'd be pissed. Bill handled the situation perfectly, you guys are grasping at straws for attacking that interview. |
You're spinning it to fit your agenda. No one is saying coaches "don't care" if backups get hurt. But losing a backup to injury as opposed to a starter is much easier to overcome and compensate for. It's the value to the team's ability to win that places more emphasis and value on a starter. Not to mention an elite starter such as Gronk.
You didn't answer the question I posted either. If BB is correct then why do most other traditional coaches pull their starters from the game when winning big late in the 4th? |
You mean like the Broncos did with Peyton Manning against the Saints a few weeks ago?
Oh, right. 
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SwiftTexan
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 2441
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| OchoCinco says: Child Please - it ain't Bill's fault - You try to take Gronk out of a game even if you're up by 100 points. You tell that big white gorilla that he's got to sit down and he can't spike the ball anymore - tell me how that works out for you. |
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bbllstr22
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6349
Location: Hell. The only place where the devil's advocate can reside.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Belichick deserved this. He had no business playing starters with a 30 point lead deep in the 4th quarter. Won't hurt too badly but he was destroying Indy. I'm not saying it's a good thing he got injured however, you never want to see a guy get injured. |
This has to be the most annoying lingering logical fallacy around the NFL. Injuries are going to happen, period. |
Where's the logical fallacy???  Point it out and name which fallacy it is.
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Career---------968 receptions (10th), 13063 yards (14th), 78 TDs (24th)
Playoffs--------92 receptions (2nd), 1242 yards (4th), 9 TDs (7th) |
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Tugboat
Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I did think it was odd that they still had most of the starters in there late in the game up so much and basically dominating the game. Seemed like an unnecessary risk to me at the time. But Gronk breaking his arm on a PAT wasn't exactly one of the concerns i would've thought about.
Sucks for Gronk and for the Pats, but they'll still be okay, they've still got all kinds of weapons and Tom Brady at the helm. If they get him back to the playoffs, all will be well there. |
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40906
Location: Probably doing something self-destructive
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| bbllstr22 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Belichick deserved this. He had no business playing starters with a 30 point lead deep in the 4th quarter. Won't hurt too badly but he was destroying Indy. I'm not saying it's a good thing he got injured however, you never want to see a guy get injured. |
This has to be the most annoying lingering logical fallacy around the NFL. Injuries are going to happen, period. |
Where's the logical fallacy??? Point it out and name which fallacy it is. |
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html
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coors
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 6373
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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It seems like Gronk has terrible luck when it comes to injuries.. whether it be late in a game that was already put away like yesterday, or late in the season like during the AFC Championship game that ended up affecting him during the Super Bowl like last season.. I feel bad for the guy because he is a really likeable kid, who has out of this world talent. He's super valuable to the Pats.. and going into this year who would have thought that the Pats right now are pretty thin at the TE position after losing Gronk, and Hernandez still injured. They are lucky (or smart) by bulking up their TEs this off season with Fells, Shiancoe, and Uh-Oh and I'm sure I am forgetting someone.. but this off season there were a ton of people saying that the Pats were stockpiling TEs for no reason or the bla bla "what are they doing??!!!?" bla bla, and look at them now, they ended up needing them.. and their team is still better than their favorite teams. Lol, I love the random haters who call out a team for no good reason. My hats off to the Pats..
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bbllstr22
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6349
Location: Hell. The only place where the devil's advocate can reside.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Belichick deserved this. He had no business playing starters with a 30 point lead deep in the 4th quarter. Won't hurt too badly but he was destroying Indy. I'm not saying it's a good thing he got injured however, you never want to see a guy get injured. |
This has to be the most annoying lingering logical fallacy around the NFL. Injuries are going to happen, period. |
Where's the logical fallacy??? Point it out and name which fallacy it is. |
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html |
I don't get where I made this error. My point was that injuries happen in every NFL game, it is impossible to overcome 30 points in 1 quarter, why put your stars at greater risk of injury when you have the game in hand and you can give your backups in to gain gametime experience?
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Reggie Wayne for HOF
Career---------968 receptions (10th), 13063 yards (14th), 78 TDs (24th)
Playoffs--------92 receptions (2nd), 1242 yards (4th), 9 TDs (7th) |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2998
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| bbllstr22 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Belichick deserved this. He had no business playing starters with a 30 point lead deep in the 4th quarter. Won't hurt too badly but he was destroying Indy. I'm not saying it's a good thing he got injured however, you never want to see a guy get injured. |
This has to be the most annoying lingering logical fallacy around the NFL. Injuries are going to happen, period. |
Where's the logical fallacy??? Point it out and name which fallacy it is. |
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html |
I don't get where I made this error. My point was that injuries happen in every NFL game, it is impossible to overcome 30 points in 1 quarter, why put your stars at greater risk of injury when you have the game in hand and you can give your backups in to gain gametime experience? |
What happens if Gronk's replacement on the XP lets his man by, due to inexperience, and he dives into Gostkowski's leg ?? Then the questions come in about "why was the inexperienced player in there ?? blah blah blah"
My point....hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 and it's much easier to hop on your high horse and judge when you know what happens. All fans are undefeated coaching from their couch and never have to answer for their fantasy moves they WOULD make if they were in the position to do so. Fact is...you're in no position to question the man. Period.
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tylerdouglass
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 14168
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | you're in no position to question the man. Period. |
I've never understood this train of thought.
Fans can't question NFL coaches? Why not? Just because someone sees the outcome, doesn't mean their decision is influenced by it.
We just have to say "Well he's the coach, he must be right." It makes no sense.
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| tylerdouglass wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | you're in no position to question the man. Period. |
I've never understood this train of thought.
Fans can't question NFL coaches? Why not?
We just have to say "Well he's the coach, he must be right." |
Do you walk in his shoes ?? Do you have any concept whatsoever about what his responsibilities are ?? What his relationships are with certain players ??
Essentially, you don't have a clue but feel an obligation to question ?? That about sums up us Americans as a whole
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tylerdouglass
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 14168
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | tylerdouglass wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | you're in no position to question the man. Period. |
I've never understood this train of thought.
Fans can't question NFL coaches? Why not?
We just have to say "Well he's the coach, he must be right." |
Do you walk in his shoes ?? Do you have any concept whatsoever about what his responsibilities are ?? What his relationships are with certain players ??
Essentially, you don't have a clue but feel an obligation to question ?? That about sums about Americans as a whole |
So you've never questioned a coaches decision then?
That makes you a pretty poor fan, IMO.
I don't even feel strongly that Gronk should've been benched, I've been playing devil's advocate so far, but this idea that fans can't question coaches is just, wrong.
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2998
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| tylerdouglass wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | tylerdouglass wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | you're in no position to question the man. Period. |
I've never understood this train of thought.
Fans can't question NFL coaches? Why not?
We just have to say "Well he's the coach, he must be right." |
Do you walk in his shoes ?? Do you have any concept whatsoever about what his responsibilities are ?? What his relationships are with certain players ??
Essentially, you don't have a clue but feel an obligation to question ?? That about sums about Americans as a whole |
So you've never questioned a coaches decision then?
That makes you a pretty poor fan, IMO.
I don't even feel strongly that Gronk should've been benched, I've been playing devil's advocate so far, but this idea that fans can't question coaches is just, wrong. |
I'll never question personnel moves, no....especially when an injury is involved. They happen, regardless of who's on the field, and they eventually get everyone. You have to line up 11 guys on every play.
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bbllstr22
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6349
Location: Hell. The only place where the devil's advocate can reside.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | bbllstr22 wrote: | | Belichick deserved this. He had no business playing starters with a 30 point lead deep in the 4th quarter. Won't hurt too badly but he was destroying Indy. I'm not saying it's a good thing he got injured however, you never want to see a guy get injured. |
This has to be the most annoying lingering logical fallacy around the NFL. Injuries are going to happen, period. |
Where's the logical fallacy??? Point it out and name which fallacy it is. |
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html |
I don't get where I made this error. My point was that injuries happen in every NFL game, it is impossible to overcome 30 points in 1 quarter, why put your stars at greater risk of injury when you have the game in hand and you can give your backups in to gain gametime experience? |
What happens if Gronk's replacement on the XP lets his man by, due to inexperience, and he dives into Gostkowski's leg ?? Then the questions come in about "why was the inexperienced player in there ?? blah blah blah"
My point....hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 and it's much easier to hop on your high horse and judge when you know what happens. All fans are undefeated coaching from their couch and never have to answer for their fantasy moves they WOULD make if they were in the position to do so. Fact is...you're in no position to question the man. Period. |
I apologize. Who am I to question the great Belichick? Wouldn't your last paragraph make this forum moot?
Sure, 20/20, blahblahblah, my point is that I didn't make a logical fallacy. I don't really care if people think Coach B is smart for putting key players in late in a blowout.
_________________
Reggie Wayne for HOF
Career---------968 receptions (10th), 13063 yards (14th), 78 TDs (24th)
Playoffs--------92 receptions (2nd), 1242 yards (4th), 9 TDs (7th) |
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Shockey1979
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 18406
Location: RI/MA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | You mean like the Broncos did with Peyton Manning against the Saints a few weeks ago?
Oh, right. |
Errm. Osweiler finished that game.
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A lion roars in the darkness only he holds the key. A light to free me from my burden and grant me life eternally |
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24isthelaw
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 5321
Location: Where the Patriots are
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Shockey1979 wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | You mean like the Broncos did with Peyton Manning against the Saints a few weeks ago?
Oh, right. |
Errm. Osweiler finished that game. |
Mallett finished this one. His point was about still being in when the outcome was well in hand.*
*-assuming you trust this defense to not make all kinds of bad history, which I don't.
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