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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenchSanchez wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.



Do you watch football? Do you understand how a passing game works?
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heavinsent wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.


Alright then, if Rivers and Sanchez are equal, can we have Rivers please?

There was a time in which Rivers was an elite, top 5 QB. Sanchez has obviously never even come remotely close to that. Rivers has declined, but he is still infinitely better than Sanchez. It's not even really a discussion.


I'm not comparing them. Your missing my point.
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.



Do you watch football? Do you understand how a passing game works?


Yeah, I've played it and coached it.

Need anything else? Apparently you're not understanding my point either. Not surprised. It's hard to get any points across here.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenchSanchez wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.



Do you watch football? Do you understand how a passing game works?


Yeah, I've played it and coached it.

Need anything else? Apparently you're not understanding my point either. Not surprised.


If you can't see the difference between when Rivers has even a little time, or a little space to step up, then you're not paying enough attention. If getting hit 17 times, knocked down 9, and sacked 5 in 24 attempts won't change how well a QB plays, he's a God.

If you're coaching, and your QB is taking pressure like that, are you yelling at him for sucking? If you are, you need to give the clipboard to somebody else that will fix the OL.
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carnageehw


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone, PLEASE PLEASE point me to a video or a gif of that texans players taking the ball in the nuts.

I want to make a gif combining that and Hans Molemans' "Man getting hit by football"
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="MrDrew"][quote="BenchSanchez"][quote="MrDrew"][quote="BenchSanchez"]I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.[/quote]


Do you watch football? Do you understand how a passing game works?[/quote]

Yeah, I've played it and coached it.

Need anything else? Apparently you're not understanding my point either. Not surprised.[/quote]

If you can't see the difference between when Rivers has even a little time, or a little space to step up, then you're not paying enough attention. If getting hit 17 times, knocked down 9, and sacked 5 in 24 attempts won't change how well a QB plays, he's a God.

If you're coaching, and your QB is taking pressure like that, are you yelling at him for sucking? If you are, you need to give the clipboard to somebody else that will fix the OL.[/quote]
--------------------------------------

Um, exactly my point there chief. Which was:

Sanchez has terrible O-Line, no WR core. People claim he sucks.

Rivers has terrible O-Line, no WR core (other than Gates.) People cry O-Line.

Though I'm saying Rivers sucks, I don't mean it. I'm just point out how ignorant people are for putting the entire load on Sanchez.

Hopefully I spelled this out clearly enough for everyone. I wasn't comparing anyone. A Chargers fan, go figure, chimed in with the comparisons when not comprehending my post.

Edit: I have no idea why the quotes are not working.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenchSanchez wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.



Do you watch football? Do you understand how a passing game works?


Yeah, I've played it and coached it.

Need anything else? Apparently you're not understanding my point either. Not surprised.


If you can't see the difference between when Rivers has even a little time, or a little space to step up, then you're not paying enough attention. If getting hit 17 times, knocked down 9, and sacked 5 in 24 attempts won't change how well a QB plays, he's a God.

If you're coaching, and your QB is taking pressure like that, are you yelling at him for sucking? If you are, you need to give the clipboard to somebody else that will fix the OL.


Um, exactly my point there chief. Which was:

Sanchez has terrible O-Line, no WR core. People claim he sucks.

Rivers has terrible O-Line, no WR core (other than Gates.) People cry O-Line.

Though I'm saying Rivers sucks, I don't mean it. I'm just point out how ignorant people are for putting the entire load on Sanchez.

Hopefully I spelled this out clearly enough for everyone.


Ahh.. Sorry, didn't realize you were making an example with Sanchez here.

Sanchez is in a very similar place. He needs a lot of help on O, and could use some real coaching.
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue, but I'm just going to say I think it's hilarious that Rivers' problem is his O-Line, and it's not that he just sucks. But yet, Sanchez has a terrible O-Line and no time, no WR core - but to everyone he just sucks and he's the problem.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Rivers sucks.



Do you watch football? Do you understand how a passing game works?


Yeah, I've played it and coached it.

Need anything else? Apparently you're not understanding my point either. Not surprised.


If you can't see the difference between when Rivers has even a little time, or a little space to step up, then you're not paying enough attention. If getting hit 17 times, knocked down 9, and sacked 5 in 24 attempts won't change how well a QB plays, he's a God.

If you're coaching, and your QB is taking pressure like that, are you yelling at him for sucking? If you are, you need to give the clipboard to somebody else that will fix the OL.


Um, exactly my point there chief. Which was:

Sanchez has terrible O-Line, no WR core. People claim he sucks.

Rivers has terrible O-Line, no WR core (other than Gates.) People cry O-Line.

Though I'm saying Rivers sucks, I don't mean it. I'm just point out how ignorant people are for putting the entire load on Sanchez.

Hopefully I spelled this out clearly enough for everyone.


Ahh.. Sorry, didn't realize you were making an example with Sanchez here.

Sanchez is in a very similar place. He needs a lot of help on O, and could use some real coaching.


Exactly man. Laughing It's frustrating to see everyone dump on him, I was just trying to shine light on that. He can still be a better decision maker but he isn't all of our problem.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carnageehw wrote:
Can anyone, PLEASE PLEASE point me to a video or a gif of that texans players taking the ball in the nuts.

I want to make a gif combining that and Hans Molemans' "Man getting hit by football"

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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenchSanchez wrote:
Exactly man. Laughing It's frustrating, I was just trying to shine light on that.


I questioned this earlier today

MrDrew wrote:
I keep wondering how many of these young QB's that are playing poor would live up to expectations with good coaching. They all have physical ability, and have shown they can be good at one time or another.


Sanchez is one of the guys I was thinking about.


I also think bringing in Tebow hurt a lot. Even if he knows that Tebow won't take his job, it has to hurt your confidence when a majority of the "fans" are screaming for the backup on your first mistake of the season.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenchSanchez wrote:
Exactly man. Laughing It's frustrating, I was just trying to shine light on that. He can still be a better decision maker but he isn't all of our problem.

The only place I see a flaw in your logic is that, in spite of similar current situations, Sanchez has yet to ever reach the individual kind of success that Rivers has.

I didn't play against Mark Sanchez in high school (he wasn't starting for Mission Viejo until after I graduated), but even as a collegian he never put up any kind of performance that would have you giving serious consideration to associating the word "greatness" with him. Rivers had that at one point. That feels like a distant memory right now, but it doesn't change the fact it did once exist and for a longer period that to suggest it was of the Derek Anderson variety.

So I agree with you, but I don't. The situations are extremely similar, I give you that. But where they differ is that we know that Rivers is/was capable of producing greatness, the question is whether he can ever do it again or if he's lost it forever. With Sanchez we're still asking if he's ever going to be capable of it.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
carnageehw wrote:
Can anyone, PLEASE PLEASE point me to a video or a gif of that texans players taking the ball in the nuts.

I want to make a gif combining that and Hans Molemans' "Man getting hit by football"


CUP CHECK
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
Sanchez is one of the guys I was thinking about.


I also think bringing in Tebow hurt a lot. Even if he knows that Tebow won't take his job, it has to hurt your confidence when a majority of the "fans" are screaming for the backup on your first mistake of the season.

I think in Mark's case - and you've got to remember I've followed his career since he was a teenager as he played for a rival local area school (even though we never played against one another) - while his ceiling was limited he just went to one of the absolute worst environments possible for him. This is a kid who came from Southern California prep where you're an infallible celebrity if you're a highly-recruited talent, particularly if you sign an early letter of intent to USC as Sanchez did. Then to USC where again, everyone is on your side, you can do no wrong (and when you do, excuses will be made for you). Everything about Mark's high school and collegiate development suggested that he wasn't conditioned to be mentally tough (and I think that is exactly what Carroll was getting at when he said he didn't think Sanchez was ready for the NFL when he declared early - he could have gained a lot in that respect by facing the adversity of having to be "the guy" that produced in spite of the turnover of a defensive unit that was one of the best in the nation).

So you take this QB prospect that hasn't really developed great mental toughness and doesn't have the kind of athletic gifts to get by on those while he continues to develop (see RG3, Newton, at least early on Vince Young)... and you put him in New York of all places. Only Philadelphia and Dallas would have likely been more difficult places for a young QB of similar prospects to play in, almost immediately, and even that's highly debatable.

Then you throw in Rex and his blustering and his guarantees. And I'm getting to the point where I just think that Sanchez is becoming a lost cause where too much damage has been done to believe he's salvageable (to the extent of being able to reach greatness) a la David Carr (who was a very good QB prospect in spite of how his pro prospects turned out).
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
Exactly man. Laughing It's frustrating, I was just trying to shine light on that. He can still be a better decision maker but he isn't all of our problem.

The only place I see a flaw in your logic is that, in spite of similar current situations, Sanchez has yet to ever reach the individual kind of success that Rivers has.

I didn't play against Mark Sanchez in high school (he wasn't starting for Mission Viejo until after I graduated), but even as a collegian he never put up any kind of performance that would have you giving serious consideration to associating the word "greatness" with him. Rivers had that at one point. That feels like a distant memory right now, but it doesn't change the fact it did once exist and for a longer period that to suggest it was of the Derek Anderson variety.

So I agree with you, but I don't. The situations are extremely similar, I give you that. But where they differ is that we know that Rivers is/was capable of producing greatness, the question is whether he can ever do it again or if he's lost it forever. With Sanchez we're still asking if he's ever going to be capable of it.


I completely agree with you, I don't think Sanchez is in the same class as Rivers. Sanchez was our QB when we got 1 game away from the Superbowl years ago. Our offense has always been run based and never relied on a QB's arm throughout the game. Sanchez is that guy for our team. He isn't the sole problem, though he does have is issues there are so many problems with the Jets right now.

O-Line
Running Game
Offensive play calling
Coaching
Leadership
WR Core
Moral
Tebow Distraction
Dropped passes

And for most of those, that is just the offense. So again it just pains me as a fan to see (even our own fans) dumping the load solely on Sanchez. Here Rivers has the same issues and not once is anyone calling for a replacement. I just think it's funny. Even with what Rivers has done in the past, it's a today game and league. That is the only point I was trying to make.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
carnageehw wrote:
Can anyone, PLEASE PLEASE point me to a video or a gif of that texans players taking the ball in the nuts.

I want to make a gif combining that and Hans Molemans' "Man getting hit by football"


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