You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Matt Ryan is not an MVP candidate
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.

I've stated this before I'll repost because it's just ridiculous how much MVP hype Peyton just because he's Lord Peyton.


Peyton vs Brady

Head to head: Brady
Efficiency numbers: Brady by far
Bulk TDs: Peyton
Bulk yards: Brady
Overall Record: Wash
Worse defense: Brady
More injuries on offense: Brady by far
Better PPG offense: Brady by far
Better YPG offense: Brady by far
Better offense: Brady by far
Better defense: Peyton by far


Really the only thing Peyton has over Brady is TDs. Those 3 or 4 TDs can easily be accounted for in that Brady's offense has more than twice as many rushing touchdowns. If Brady threw it in the redzone as much as Peyton you can be sure that he would have as many or more TDs.


Rodgers has an actual debate for it against Brady, but I really don't see how anyone has Peyton over Brady for the award at this point. Peyton has had an amazing comeback, but this is the MVP award. Not the "who gets the most ESPN hype" award, or at least it shouldn't be.
_________________
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbllstr22


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6349
Location: Hell. The only place where the devil's advocate can reside.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.

I've stated this before I'll repost because it's just ridiculous how much MVP hype Peyton just because he's Lord Peyton.


Peyton vs Brady

Head to head: Brady
Efficiency numbers: Brady by far
Bulk TDs: Peyton
Bulk yards: Brady
Overall Record: Wash
Worse defense: Brady
More injuries on offense: Brady by far
Better PPG offense: Brady by far
Better YPG offense: Brady by far
Better offense: Brady by far
Better defense: Peyton by far


Really the only thing Peyton has over Brady is TDs. Those 3 or 4 TDs can easily be accounted for in that Brady's offense has more than twice as many rushing touchdowns. If Brady threw it in the redzone as much as Peyton you can be sure that he would have as many or more TDs.


Rodgers has an actual debate for it against Brady, but I really don't see how anyone has Peyton over Brady for the award at this point. Peyton has had an amazing comeback, but this is the MVP award. Not the "who gets the most ESPN hype" award, or at least it shouldn't be.

Why don't you make your argument factually quantitative instead of your qualitative opinion? The only reason you need to talk about his defense when talking about a quarterback is when your talking about his record, where the whole team is involved.

Oh, and by the way, in ___ and goal situations, Manning has 25 attempts and Brady has 31 attempts. Please use actual numbers in your arguments instead of opinions that quote false attempts at 'statistics'.
_________________
Reggie Wayne for HOF
Career---------968 receptions (10th), 13063 yards (14th), 78 TDs (24th)
Playoffs--------92 receptions (2nd), 1242 yards (4th), 9 TDs (7th)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2559
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.



No I don't think you'll get entire agreement... If Brees drags the New Orleans team to the playoffs it's his and keeps putting up the stats he has in the last few weeks it's his.

TBH, I can't see how anyone could argue it.

By the way, no fan of NO, GB fan. But I love football.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 49882
Location: Hillsboro, OR
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbllstr22 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.

I've stated this before I'll repost because it's just ridiculous how much MVP hype Peyton just because he's Lord Peyton.


Peyton vs Brady

Head to head: Brady
Efficiency numbers: Brady by far
Bulk TDs: Peyton
Bulk yards: Brady
Overall Record: Wash
Worse defense: Brady
More injuries on offense: Brady by far
Better PPG offense: Brady by far
Better YPG offense: Brady by far
Better offense: Brady by far
Better defense: Peyton by far


Really the only thing Peyton has over Brady is TDs. Those 3 or 4 TDs can easily be accounted for in that Brady's offense has more than twice as many rushing touchdowns. If Brady threw it in the redzone as much as Peyton you can be sure that he would have as many or more TDs.


Rodgers has an actual debate for it against Brady, but I really don't see how anyone has Peyton over Brady for the award at this point. Peyton has had an amazing comeback, but this is the MVP award. Not the "who gets the most ESPN hype" award, or at least it shouldn't be.

Why don't you make your argument factually quantitative instead of your qualitative opinion? The only reason you need to talk about his defense when talking about a quarterback is when your talking about his record, where the whole team is involved.

Oh, and by the way, in ___ and goal situations, Manning has 25 attempts and Brady has 31 attempts. Please use actual numbers in your arguments instead of opinions that quote false attempts at 'statistics'.


You should know that whenever this guy uses "stats", they're probably all flawed stats.

Where is that one post that showed him calling Vollmer an All-Pro tackle and then in the next post he called him a "rookie RT" or something along those lines. It was hilarious.
_________________
#FireDeanPees...and Chris Hewitt....and Matt Weiss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbllstr22


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6349
Location: Hell. The only place where the devil's advocate can reside.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bbllstr22 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.

I've stated this before I'll repost because it's just ridiculous how much MVP hype Peyton just because he's Lord Peyton.


Peyton vs Brady

Head to head: Brady
Efficiency numbers: Brady by far
Bulk TDs: Peyton
Bulk yards: Brady
Overall Record: Wash
Worse defense: Brady
More injuries on offense: Brady by far
Better PPG offense: Brady by far
Better YPG offense: Brady by far
Better offense: Brady by far
Better defense: Peyton by far


Really the only thing Peyton has over Brady is TDs. Those 3 or 4 TDs can easily be accounted for in that Brady's offense has more than twice as many rushing touchdowns. If Brady threw it in the redzone as much as Peyton you can be sure that he would have as many or more TDs.


Rodgers has an actual debate for it against Brady, but I really don't see how anyone has Peyton over Brady for the award at this point. Peyton has had an amazing comeback, but this is the MVP award. Not the "who gets the most ESPN hype" award, or at least it shouldn't be.

Why don't you make your argument factually quantitative instead of your qualitative opinion? The only reason you need to talk about his defense when talking about a quarterback is when your talking about his record, where the whole team is involved.

Oh, and by the way, in ___ and goal situations, Manning has 25 attempts and Brady has 31 attempts. Please use actual numbers in your arguments instead of opinions that quote false attempts at 'statistics'.


You should know that whenever this guy uses "stats", they're probably all flawed stats.

Where is that one post that showed him calling Vollmer an All-Pro tackle and then in the next post he called him a "rookie RT" or something along those lines. It was hilarious.
Oh trust me, I know. Wink I just want to see what type of highly manipulated numbers he pulls out of his... back pocket this time. Let's all wait eagerly as he goes back into his workshop.
_________________
Reggie Wayne for HOF
Career---------968 receptions (10th), 13063 yards (14th), 78 TDs (24th)
Playoffs--------92 receptions (2nd), 1242 yards (4th), 9 TDs (7th)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doomer


Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evan Silva ‏@evansilva #Saints QB Drew Brees' TD-to-INT ratio over his last 16 games is 51:14.

Sick.
_________________
Saints/Pelicans/Predators
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JDKing14


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1875
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.

I've stated this before I'll repost because it's just ridiculous how much MVP hype Peyton just because he's Lord Peyton.


Peyton vs Brady

Head to head: Brady
Efficiency numbers: Brady by far
Bulk TDs: Peyton
Bulk yards: Brady
Overall Record: Wash
Worse defense: Brady
More injuries on offense: Brady by far
Better PPG offense: Brady by far
Better YPG offense: Brady by far
Better offense: Brady by far
Better defense: Peyton by far


Really the only thing Peyton has over Brady is TDs. Those 3 or 4 TDs can easily be accounted for in that Brady's offense has more than twice as many rushing touchdowns. If Brady threw it in the redzone as much as Peyton you can be sure that he would have as many or more TDs.


Rodgers has an actual debate for it against Brady, but I really don't see how anyone has Peyton over Brady for the award at this point. Peyton has had an amazing comeback, but this is the MVP award. Not the "who gets the most ESPN hype" award, or at least it shouldn't be.
How can you just blatantly lie in your arguments and expect people to take you seriously? Literally, and I mean literally, the only efficiency stat that Brady is beating Peyton in is Int%. Peyton leads in comp%, QBR, TD%, YPA, YPC, and any other smaller efficiency stats you want to throw out there. How you can wonder why people would take Peyton is beyond me..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

You should know that whenever this guy uses "stats", they're probably all flawed stats.

Where is that one post that showed him calling Vollmer an All-Pro tackle and then in the next post he called him a "rookie RT" or something along those lines. It was hilarious.

I never called Solder a rookie RT because he's not a rookie RT. He's an All Pro tackle with chronic back problems. Both of those are FACTS. And anyone who disagrees with either of those has no idea what they're talking about.

And again, there is ZERO reason to make this about me. If you disagree with my opinion fine, that's great, make an argument. You criticize me for not providing an indepth analysis of some pretty basic numbers that are easily accessible (PPG, YPG, TDs, TD:INT ratio), yet you provide absolutely nothing to the discussion.

If you're going to do nothing but give personal attacks, you really should not even post.

bbllstr22 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
We can all agree Rodgers / Peyton / Brady are the only "real" candidates for MVP this year.

I've stated this before I'll repost because it's just ridiculous how much MVP hype Peyton just because he's Lord Peyton.


Peyton vs Brady

Head to head: Brady
Efficiency numbers: Brady by far
Bulk TDs: Peyton
Bulk yards: Brady
Overall Record: Wash
Worse defense: Brady
More injuries on offense: Brady by far
Better PPG offense: Brady by far
Better YPG offense: Brady by far
Better offense: Brady by far
Better defense: Peyton by far


Really the only thing Peyton has over Brady is TDs. Those 3 or 4 TDs can easily be accounted for in that Brady's offense has more than twice as many rushing touchdowns. If Brady threw it in the redzone as much as Peyton you can be sure that he would have as many or more TDs.


Rodgers has an actual debate for it against Brady, but I really don't see how anyone has Peyton over Brady for the award at this point. Peyton has had an amazing comeback, but this is the MVP award. Not the "who gets the most ESPN hype" award, or at least it shouldn't be.

Why don't you make your argument factually quantitative instead of your qualitative opinion? The only reason you need to talk about his defense when talking about a quarterback is when your talking about his record, where the whole team is involved.

Oh, and by the way, in ___ and goal situations, Manning has 25 attempts and Brady has 31 attempts. Please use actual numbers in your arguments instead of opinions that quote false attempts at 'statistics'.


I'm not going to spend my time doing in depth analysis when all I get is troll responses. Whenever I post either it's a personal attack, a deflection, or just flat out ignoring my post because they have no rebuttal. I'm also not going to spend my time crunching numbers just for the sake of crunching numbers. All of the things stated are true and incredibly easy to look up if you don't believe me.

Anyone who has followed the NFL this year knows my post is true. It takes all of three seconds to go to ESPN and look at their stats and to see my post is true. It's hard for my personal bias to be involved when yards, PPG, YPG, bulk TDs, record, head to head, etc. are all COMPLETELY TRUE AND UNOPINIONATED.

Heck, I don't know how I could make that an opinion if I wanted to.

Brady blew out Peyton head to head.
Brady has more yards than Peyton
Peyton has more TDs than Brady
Brady has a worse defense
Brady is leading the (by far) #1 PPG offense
Brady is leading the (by far) #1 YPG offense

There is no qualitative opinion in any of that. It's all supported by numbers and facts that extremely easy to look up.

As for the attempts part, that's not surprising. The Patriots again, have by far the best offense in the NFL. You can't blame Brady for getting his team to the goal line more than Peyton. The real thing that matters is that Brady has had more opportunities to stat pad and throw TDs, but he does the smart thing and either does a QB sneak or a HB dive into the endzone the majority of the time.
_________________
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDKing14 wrote:
How can you just blatantly lie in your arguments and expect people to take you seriously? Literally, and I mean literally, the only efficiency stat that Brady is beating Peyton in is Int%. Peyton leads in comp%, QBR, TD%, YPA, YPC, and any other smaller efficiency stats you want to throw out there. How you can wonder why people would take Peyton is beyond me..


I was referring to the ability to take care of the ball when I said efficiency.


But for what it's worth, if you want to make that argument. Brady has way more first downs, has a higher points per drive ratio, scores more points, and leads a better offense. The job of the QB is to score points in some way or another, and Brady is as efficient as it comes at doing that.

I mean heck, we scored I think 40 points one week and our fanbase was complaining that our offense didn't perform well. Just completely absurd expectations for Brady to live up to for people to give him credit. People take 30+ points per game for granted. Brady doesn't just show up and it happens. He makes it happen.
_________________
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 22849
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
JDKing14 wrote:
How can you just blatantly lie in your arguments and expect people to take you seriously? Literally, and I mean literally, the only efficiency stat that Brady is beating Peyton in is Int%. Peyton leads in comp%, QBR, TD%, YPA, YPC, and any other smaller efficiency stats you want to throw out there. How you can wonder why people would take Peyton is beyond me..


I was referring to the ability to take care of the ball when I said efficiency.


But for what it's worth, if you want to make that argument. Brady has way more first downs, has a higher points per drive ratio, scores more points, and leads a better offense. The job of the QB is to score points in some way or another, and Brady is as efficient as it comes at doing that.

I mean heck, we scored I think 40 points one week and our fanbase was complaining that our offense didn't perform well. Just completely absurd expectations for Brady to live up to for people to give him credit. People take 30+ points per game for granted. Brady doesn't just show up and it happens. He makes it happen.


You need to stop this then people will stop making fun of you. It wasnt long ago that Brady said that the running game was saving him.

Why are you using the first down stat for? Thats is so misleading. For instance if i start on the 20 and in one play i take it the distance then somebody else methodically drives the ball down the field with a 12 play drive, then of course youre going to have more 1st downs - thats just another way of you trying to nitpick every stat and see where brady exceeds manning. Brady scores more points per game or the offense scores more points for game.
_________________


Be Humble. Sit Down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JDKing14


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1875
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
JDKing14 wrote:
How can you just blatantly lie in your arguments and expect people to take you seriously? Literally, and I mean literally, the only efficiency stat that Brady is beating Peyton in is Int%. Peyton leads in comp%, QBR, TD%, YPA, YPC, and any other smaller efficiency stats you want to throw out there. How you can wonder why people would take Peyton is beyond me..


I was referring to the ability to take care of the ball when I said efficiency.


But for what it's worth, if you want to make that argument. Brady has way more first downs, has a higher points per drive ratio, scores more points, and leads a better offense. The job of the QB is to score points in some way or another, and Brady is as efficient as it comes at doing that.

I mean heck, we scored I think 40 points one week and our fanbase was complaining that our offense didn't perform well. Just completely absurd expectations for Brady to live up to for people to give him credit. People take 30+ points per game for granted. Brady doesn't just show up and it happens. He makes it happen.
First downs are a useless stat, and points per drive and overall points are an indication of the team as well as the quarterback. Again, in every personal efficiency stat except Int%...and even that number is skewed by one bad quarter early in the season.

And stop using YPG and yards in Brady's favor like it means something. He has thrown for a single yard more than Peyton. That's less than negligible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 32401
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green90 wrote:
We're talking about an MVP here. Not the "well I can win when my defense doesn't allow a moderate amount of points" award. Inferior stats, as well as public perception of Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, is why Matt Ryan has no shot at the MVP this year.


Yes, we are talking about the MVP award. The award that goes to the QB with the best combination of stats and wins.

Ryan is clearly a candidate the way things currently stand.
_________________

7DnBrnc53-"Brady is the perfect QB for Belichick: Someone who isn't very talented, but is a good leader and can play well in the structure of his offense."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2559
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Green90 wrote:
We're talking about an MVP here. Not the "well I can win when my defense doesn't allow a moderate amount of points" award. Inferior stats, as well as public perception of Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, is why Matt Ryan has no shot at the MVP this year.


Yes, we are talking about the MVP award. The award that goes to the QB with the best combination of stats and wins.

Ryan is clearly a candidate the way things currently stand.


Is Josh Freeman clearly a candidate then? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeJo00.htm

Matt Ryan http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00/gamelog/2012/

And I don't know if there is any formula as far as stats + wins, I think it's far more nuanced than that...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 32401
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Green90 wrote:
We're talking about an MVP here. Not the "well I can win when my defense doesn't allow a moderate amount of points" award. Inferior stats, as well as public perception of Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, is why Matt Ryan has no shot at the MVP this year.


Yes, we are talking about the MVP award. The award that goes to the QB with the best combination of stats and wins.

Ryan is clearly a candidate the way things currently stand.


Is Josh Freeman clearly a candidate then? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeJo00.htm

Matt Ryan http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00/gamelog/2012/

And I don't know if there is any formula as far as stats + wins, I think it's far more nuanced than that...


No, Josh Freeman isnt a candidate. Because 6-4 isnt a good enough record to overcome the fact that he isnt a total stat machine.

And you are welcome to think what you want. I ahvent seen anything in the practices of the voting body that suggests its any more nuanced than I suggested. QB, stats, wins. Which puts Ryan squarely in the mix. Not saying he should win it. Not saying he will win it. Just saying he is clearly exactly what the voting body prefers.
_________________

7DnBrnc53-"Brady is the perfect QB for Belichick: Someone who isn't very talented, but is a good leader and can play well in the structure of his offense."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blink


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 748
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "voting body" never prefers the guy that's clearly not playing as well as the others.

He would be squarely in the mix if Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers never existed, that's about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
Page 12 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group