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Matt Barkley: Yes or No? and Why?
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I would probably take this gent before Barkley as well :



...like Glennon, a QB prospect that has done alot with a whole lot less talent around him (Nassib even more IMO than Glennon).
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
THe issue here is, short of someone like Flacco not getting tagged/resigned there isn't any other option but us drafting a QB.

Is it Barkley, I don't know. Honestly this is the worst draft QB wise for us to be at the top in a while. But realistically, can we do anything else. We literally don't have a QB on the roster worth keeping.

I think we take a QB first overall and then again with our comp pick in the third that we'll get from Carr. His name is Collin...and he's a gamer.


DT, I disagree. Find a legitimate quarterback and I don't care if it is in round 1, 2, or even 3. We need to avoid the "throw as many picks at the wall and see who sticks" concept when it comes to quarterbacks. We just need a competent front office and coaching staff that can :

1. Evaluate the position.
2. Develop the quarterback.
3. Gameplan for the strengths of the quarterback.

Yeah, chances are one of the top 3-5 QB's will be a very good QB in the NFL. We will most likely have our pick of the litter. We just need to choose wisely.


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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
Honestly, I would probably take this gent before Barkley as well :



...like Glennon, a QB prospect that has done alot with a whole lot less talent around him (Nassib even more IMO than Glennon).

RVM is getting upset. Discuss only Barkley!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Honestly, I would probably take this gent before Barkley as well :



...like Glennon, a QB prospect that has done alot with a whole lot less talent around him (Nassib even more IMO than Glennon).

RVM is getting upset. Discuss only Barkley!!!


Damn skippy.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
The criticisms come now because people are now actually looking at this skill set more then just his record or stats. When you start to project him to the NFL, you get people who's job it is to figure out if guys have the tools or not. Up until this point it's been sports writers who largely don't know the intricacies of the position talking about how good he is. The scouts haven't really paid a whole lot of attention to him until this season. The results are he is very average.

I think his upside is Andy Dalton, an averagely talented guy that's a gamer. His floor is Matt Cassel.


Oh, I have to believe the scouts were looking at Barkley last year. Scouting departments are likely going to be well aware of all of the draft eligible prospects. Scouts don't go on sports shows or publish "expert" articles. The thing is, the scouts aren't the media and the media is all about finding their darlings. Kinda like Manziel, right?

Laughing

I should have clarified, I was thinking of the scouting types in the media like Mayock and other former scouts/FO types that actually know what they are looking at. The do have a mouthpiece, but aren't doing a whole lot of studying of prospects until the regular season is over as they are either covering CFB or NFL games. So those with the knowledge and the mouthpiece probably never looked at him in depth last season. And if they did, we probably didn't hear about it much because they and us were busy with real football.

Oh, and shhhh, Manziel just did something amazing again.


Not sure I understand what you are getting at bigs. The scouts are scouting college football teams. So the scouts are evaluating all draft eligible talent in their region. Of course they probably dig deeper during the offseason and pour over college game tape, but I am sure the scouts were very aware of Barkley and the things that are going to come out in the wash as far as his flaws go, are things that scouts last year noticed. A quarterback isn't going to lose arm strength from one year to the next (with the exception of an injury of course) and they definitely aren't going to shrink. The flaws that will sink Barkley this offseason were evident last year it was just the media hype that was soo loud.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL
Ok, I am basically saying what I think about Barkley by stating that I would go with Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson, E.J. Manuel, Mike Glennon, and maybe even Ryan Nassib over Matt Barkley. Just trying to get some other names out there so we don't have to get stuck talking about the same three quarterbacks up until draft.

Wink
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:

Not sure I understand what you are getting at bigs. The scouts are scouting college football teams. So the scouts are evaluating all draft eligible talent in their region. Of course they probably dig deeper during the offseason and pour over college game tape, but I am sure the scouts were very aware of Barkley and the things that are going to come out in the wash as far as his flaws go, are things that scouts last year noticed. A quarterback isn't going to lose arm strength from one year to the next (with the exception of an injury of course) and they definitely aren't going to shrink. The flaws that will sink Barkley this offseason were evident last year it was just the media hype that was soo loud.

In regards to what we hear, it's largely coming from one of two types of people, professional sports writers with no real experience, or ex-players/coaches/scouts/front office guys who to some extent do know what they are talking about.

I'm not talking about real scouts actually employed by NFL teams, sorry for the confusion. I'm talking about those who are former scouts/coaches/players/FO types that are employed by NFL network/ESPN that we could here real experienced analysis from. The Mike Mayock's, Bucky Brooks', Mike Lombardi's, Charley Casserly's, and Charles Davis' of the world is who I'm referring to. These guys have day jobs during the season, and aren't goign to be doing much more then cursory looks at guys before they declare for the draft.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:

Not sure I understand what you are getting at bigs. The scouts are scouting college football teams. So the scouts are evaluating all draft eligible talent in their region. Of course they probably dig deeper during the offseason and pour over college game tape, but I am sure the scouts were very aware of Barkley and the things that are going to come out in the wash as far as his flaws go, are things that scouts last year noticed. A quarterback isn't going to lose arm strength from one year to the next (with the exception of an injury of course) and they definitely aren't going to shrink. The flaws that will sink Barkley this offseason were evident last year it was just the media hype that was soo loud.

In regards to what we hear, it's largely coming from one of two types of people, professional sports writers with no real experience, or ex-players/coaches/scouts/front office guys who to some extent do know what they are talking about.

I'm not talking about real scouts actually employed by NFL teams, sorry for the confusion. I'm talking about those who are former scouts/coaches/players/FO types that are employed by NFL network/ESPN that we could here real experienced analysis from. The Mike Mayock's, Bucky Brooks', Mike Lombardi's, Charley Casserly's, and Charles Davis' of the world is who I'm referring to. These guys have day jobs during the season, and aren't goign to be doing much more then cursory looks at guys before they declare for the draft.


Oh, ok. Sorry about that. I was talking about the real NFL scouts. And I agree on most of those guys. Mike Mayock seems to be a beast when it comes to his understanding of prospects. I am not a Notre Dame fan, but when he calls their games for NBC I love hearing his analysis.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Yeah, and Mayock readily admits he doesn't really get into game film on a player evaluation stand point until after the season is over.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to think Barkley was getting a bad rap because of the whole USC thing. But after watching him the last couple weeks I finally realized why he went back to school instead of declaring. He himself knew he isn't ready to play in the NFL and was hoping another year with Kiffin would shoot his stock + confidence up, but it clearly hasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the second round come April and be chosen by a New England type team.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
I used to think Barkley was getting a bad rap because of the whole USC thing. But after watching him the last couple weeks I finally realized why he went back to school instead of declaring. He himself knew he isn't ready to play in the NFL and was hoping another year with Kiffin would shoot his stock + confidence up, but it clearly hasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the second round come April and be chosen by a New England type team.

I think New Orleans, assuming they re-sign Payton, would be the perfect landing spot for him.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
I used to think Barkley was getting a bad rap because of the whole USC thing. But after watching him the last couple weeks I finally realized why he went back to school instead of declaring. He himself knew he isn't ready to play in the NFL and was hoping another year with Kiffin would shoot his stock + confidence up, but it clearly hasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the second round come April and be chosen by a New England type team.

I think New Orleans, assuming they re-sign Payton, would be the perfect landing spot for him.


Yeah I agree with that. Same kind of team / situation.

Call me crazy but the only 2 qbs I "want" right now are Mike Glennon as a developmental guy and Landry Jones. Landry Jones in my opinion looks like one of the "sturdier" qbs coming out this year. Will he ever be a top 5 qb? Probably not, but he can be a guy like Joe Flacco, and with our roster that is more than enough.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
I used to think Barkley was getting a bad rap because of the whole USC thing. But after watching him the last couple weeks I finally realized why he went back to school instead of declaring. He himself knew he isn't ready to play in the NFL and was hoping another year with Kiffin would shoot his stock + confidence up, but it clearly hasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the second round come April and be chosen by a New England type team.

I think New Orleans, assuming they re-sign Payton, would be the perfect landing spot for him.


Yeah I agree with that. Same kind of team / situation.

Call me crazy but the only 2 qbs I "want" right now are Mike Glennon as a developmental guy and Landry Jones. Landry Jones in my opinion looks like one of the "sturdier" qbs coming out this year. Will he ever be a top 5 qb? Probably not, but he can be a guy like Joe Flacco, and with our roster that is more than enough.


Mikey, not sure if part of your interest in Jones is because of the game yesterday but I will warn you, the WVU defense is an absolute sieve. The issue with Jones is alot of what I think is Cassel's downfall - both completely breakdown when they feel pressure, either real or perceived.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
I used to think Barkley was getting a bad rap because of the whole USC thing. But after watching him the last couple weeks I finally realized why he went back to school instead of declaring. He himself knew he isn't ready to play in the NFL and was hoping another year with Kiffin would shoot his stock + confidence up, but it clearly hasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the second round come April and be chosen by a New England type team.

I think New Orleans, assuming they re-sign Payton, would be the perfect landing spot for him.


Yeah I agree with that. Same kind of team / situation.

Call me crazy but the only 2 qbs I "want" right now are Mike Glennon as a developmental guy and Landry Jones. Landry Jones in my opinion looks like one of the "sturdier" qbs coming out this year. Will he ever be a top 5 qb? Probably not, but he can be a guy like Joe Flacco, and with our roster that is more than enough.


Mikey, not sure if part of your interest in Jones is because of the game yesterday but I will warn you, the WVU defense is an absolute sieve. The issue with Jones is alot of what I think is Cassel's downfall - both completely breakdown when they feel pressure, either real or perceived.


Although I did watch the game last night that isn't what sold me on him. I know exactly what you're saying about him and I agree to a certain extent but I still think he is one of the better Qbs we could take. I honestly wouldnt be opposed to taking a qb in the first 2 rounds, and having them 2 + Stanzi battle it out in T.C.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
I used to think Barkley was getting a bad rap because of the whole USC thing. But after watching him the last couple weeks I finally realized why he went back to school instead of declaring. He himself knew he isn't ready to play in the NFL and was hoping another year with Kiffin would shoot his stock + confidence up, but it clearly hasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the second round come April and be chosen by a New England type team.

I think New Orleans, assuming they re-sign Payton, would be the perfect landing spot for him.


Yeah I agree with that. Same kind of team / situation.

Call me crazy but the only 2 qbs I "want" right now are Mike Glennon as a developmental guy and Landry Jones. Landry Jones in my opinion looks like one of the "sturdier" qbs coming out this year. Will he ever be a top 5 qb? Probably not, but he can be a guy like Joe Flacco, and with our roster that is more than enough.


Mikey, not sure if part of your interest in Jones is because of the game yesterday but I will warn you, the WVU defense is an absolute sieve. The issue with Jones is alot of what I think is Cassel's downfall - both completely breakdown when they feel pressure, either real or perceived.


Although I did watch the game last night that isn't what sold me on him. I know exactly what you're saying about him and I agree to a certain extent but I still think he is one of the better Qbs we could take. I honestly wouldnt be opposed to taking a qb in the first 2 rounds, and having them 2 + Stanzi battle it out in T.C.


Hmm, I just don't think we have the luxury of using multiple picks on the position. We need to proprly evaluate every prospect at the position and pick the right one. Do I think Pioli and this coaching staff can do that? Hell naw!
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