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footy_29
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: The Frozen Tundra that is Canada
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| steelcurtain29 wrote: | Certainly did. The Rams were a team that needed young depth to build upon. They got that with the deal with the Redskins.
The 'Skins have a head coach who can build an offense to improve Griffin's abilities. Not only that, but his athleticism can make plays that the rest of the average-at-best offense could never make.
As long as the Redskins have a healthy Griffin, they will become a better team overall. They didn't need those picks to do that. They would have definitely helped; obviously. However, I doubt those players they could have picked instead (unless they somehow become HOF players) would carry that offense (or team) that Griffin already has, and will continue to do.
Look at him now. Can you imagine the impact he'll make in the NFL when he reaches his potential!? |
Generally my thoughts.
This is his rookie season, so this question cannot be decided or determined conclusively. It may not be 5 years down the road that we can talk definitively about the trade, but it will certainly be a couple of years down the road. We need to see whether Griffin becomes elite and that will be the barometer for the success of this trade for the Redskins, what the Rams do is of their own accord. If the Rams draft All-Pros, they will have greatly contributed to developing a long-term playoff contending team.
For a rookie who had his #1 receiver healthy for one quarter of a game this season, and lost essentially the only other playmaker in week 7 (Fred Davis), he's played very well. Yes, he has a LT that is playing like an All-Pro, and he has a strong running game, but he has been forced to score a lot of points because of the atrocity that is the Redskins defense without Orakpo.
As steelcurtain29 stated - and I am forced to agree with him because we share a number - it obviously would have helped to have the two first round picks, but it is not debilitating as many Rams fans have informed us. While this year is looking like the Skins will be picking in the top 10, they could be closer to 15 when the season is over.
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S-jax39
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 5650
Location: [D]MV
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: |
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For the rams it obviously is a win, but why doesnt anyone mention Tannehill? This always gets turned into a Bradford V Griffin, but Washington had the option to take Tanny. I honestly dont think griffin will be better than Bradford or tanny + 2 1sts and a second.
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| SwiftTexan wrote: | | Chris Long has not been a difference maker on defense.......Chris Long is an above average starter and nothing more. |
Adopt a ram: THE ANIMAL:
55 tackles
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Last edited by S-jax39 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31393
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| footy_29 wrote: | | steelcurtain29 wrote: | Certainly did. The Rams were a team that needed young depth to build upon. They got that with the deal with the Redskins.
The 'Skins have a head coach who can build an offense to improve Griffin's abilities. Not only that, but his athleticism can make plays that the rest of the average-at-best offense could never make.
As long as the Redskins have a healthy Griffin, they will become a better team overall. They didn't need those picks to do that. They would have definitely helped; obviously. However, I doubt those players they could have picked instead (unless they somehow become HOF players) would carry that offense (or team) that Griffin already has, and will continue to do.
Look at him now. Can you imagine the impact he'll make in the NFL when he reaches his potential!? |
Generally my thoughts.
This is his rookie season, so this question cannot be decided or determined conclusively. It may not be 5 years down the road that we can talk definitively about the trade, but it will certainly be a couple of years down the road. We need to see whether Griffin becomes elite and that will be the barometer for the success of this trade for the Redskins, what the Rams do is of their own accord. If the Rams draft All-Pros, they will have greatly contributed to developing a long-term playoff contending team.
For a rookie who had his #1 receiver healthy for one quarter of a game this season, and lost essentially the only other playmaker in week 7 (Fred Davis), he's played very well. Yes, he has a LT that is playing like an All-Pro, and he has a strong running game, but he has been forced to score a lot of points because of the atrocity that is the Redskins defense without Orakpo.
As steelcurtain29 stated - and I am forced to agree with him because we share a number - it obviously would have helped to have the two first round picks, but it is not debilitating as many Rams fans have informed us. While this year is looking like the Skins will be picking in the top 10, they could be closer to 15 when the season is over. |
Or could be picking in the top 5. Personally, I think the Skins likely finish 6-10 which should be somewhere in the 7 to 10 range.
And I wouldn't say it's Rams fans who have been saying that so much. It's more been fans in general. Us Rams fans have only argued that we made the best move we had and are content with what we got. Especially with the first 2 picks we got out of the deal.
Michael Brockers is a game changer on our defense. And Janoris Jenkins has a lot of potential although he hasn't played well of late.
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mozwanted
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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honestly been there done that.
redskins got the house by trading their pick to saints.
without a stable qb its hard to win in this league.
if rams dont make the playoffs next 2 years theirs no benefits from the trade for them.
as for washington rg3 is 22 years old 2 years from now he will be 24 and redskins will have a full stack of picks. hes the puzzle piece most teams dont have. |
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| mozwanted wrote: | honestly been there done that.
redskins got the house by trading their pick to saints.
without a stable qb its hard to win in this league.
if rams dont make the playoffs next 2 years theirs no benefits from the trade for them.
as for washington rg3 is 22 years old 2 years from now he will be 24 and redskins will have a full stack of picks. hes the puzzle piece most teams dont have. |
If the Redskins don't make the playoffs in the next 2 years, there's no benefits from the trade for them.
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lilant2398
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
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Location: St.louis
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| mozwanted wrote: | honestly been there done that.
redskins got the house by trading their pick to saints.
without a stable qb its hard to win in this league.
if rams dont make the playoffs next 2 years theirs no benefits from the trade for them.
as for washington rg3 is 22 years old 2 years from now he will be 24 and redskins will have a full stack of picks. hes the puzzle piece most teams dont have. |
why not? so if we make it our 3rd year.... its still no benefit?
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Seems like a win win situation.
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Dunderhead
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Rams and it's not even close.
That price is just too much to give up for any one players. And although Washington fans would love to buy that this trade is the same as the Elway and Eli trades of the past, that simply isn't true.
Those trades didn't cost as many picks. Neither Elway or Eli wanted to play for the teams that drafted them. So the Broncos and Giants got market value. Sure, big trade, but really didn't warp anything and the cost wasn't near as much.
The Washington trade was for 3 #1s and a #2. It's too much for one player. The draft is so useful and has become even more useful with the rookie cap. The rookie cap keeps the whole team's salary cap down. But Washington is already against the cap so they can't delve into FA.
Look, I like RGIII and think he can be successful - but not like this. Everyone knows he needs to grow, but to be successful he needs talent around him that grows too. Where will this team be 3 years from now? Many of the players that are good on Washington won't be there 3 years from now and they wont have the picks to replace and grow with Griffin.
Add to the fact, without talent around, will the record be enough to buy Shanny more years? Doubtful. The best formula for wasting a QB, is constantly changing coaches. If this team doesn't start winning, he's gone... This is year 3 of the Shanny and Son experiment. The shine is dulling and Snyder knows the money will dry up. He'll go out and get a new GM and coach to keep interest alive. He always does.
And this isn't the first time Washington has traded picks for a QB... What about 2005? Where's Campbell now?
Long story short, it's all about the management dummy. Doesn't matter who the QB is. If the management isn't stable the thing falls apart.
So even 3-5 years from now when we view this it will be even more warped than it is now. Rams will be one of the best teams in the NFL, with young talent and plenty of cap space. Washington will probably be on its' 3rd coach, RG III will probably be traded for a 4-6 round pick.
Don't believe? Ask yourself what happened to Ramsey and Campbell. You don't have to be Nostradamus to figure this one out. Just have to have a decent memory and have followed Washington for 10 years... |
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footy_29
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: The Frozen Tundra that is Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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In response to Dunderhead:
1 - Even with the other 18MM cap penalty in 2013, the Redskins will have ~14 million in cap space if we assume a 120MM salary cap. Not a lot, but enough to sign a top FA corner, their draft picks and some veteran depth.
2 - Jason Campbell still cannot make progression reads. Yes, they could have done a better job developing him, but he was not franchise QB material.
3 - Players signed through the 2014 season includes 25+ players:
Three of their starting offensive lineman, including their franchise LT
Pierre Garcon
All three DL starters
The 2011 and 2012 drafts - the nucleus of the future team.
4 - Patrick Ramsey was poorly developed.
5 - Finally, it's two high picks, but they are still just 2 picks. It will not make or break the Redskins building a foundation around RG3. The cap penalty is what truly hurts, but that will be over with after the 2013 season and the team will have ~30MM to address any pertinent needs with impact free agents, and re-sign their own developed players.
**There is a lot riding on the RG3 developing into an elite QB, but people have to stop assuming that minus 2 first round picks the Redskins are incapable of building around RG3.
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GaTechRavens
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunderhead wrote: | | Those trades didn't cost as many picks. Neither Elway or Eli wanted to play for the teams that drafted them. So the Broncos and Giants got market value. Sure, big trade, but really didn't warp anything and the cost wasn't near as much. |
It wasn't far off. Denver's price wasn't as much - two 1st round picks, but both of those picks ended up being highly successful. Chris Hinton was a many time Pro Bowler, and Ron Solt made a Pro Bowl as well. Those were two cornerstone o-linemen - something the Rams might need to be lucky to get the equivalent of even with more picks - are something you would have said the Broncos would have needed badly, especially for Elway's development. Instead, the team was a title contender almost immediately.
The Giants' price was also not quite as much, but still close to the same story - the Chargers get immediate and massive dividends. How does the Giants team suffer without two critical first round picks and a few others? Not at all. They start winning in Eli's second year and restock the shelves - without those picks - very quickly.
| Quote: | | The Washington trade was for 3 #1s and a #2. It's too much for one player. The draft is so useful and has become even more useful with the rookie cap. |
It also makes a highly drafted QB much easier to bear. They don't have to nuke their salary cap to have Griffin like other teams had to do.
| Quote: | | The rookie cap keeps the whole team's salary cap down. But Washington is already against the cap so they can't delve into FA. |
Already disproven. The Redskins have generally managed their cap really well.
| Quote: | | Look, I like RGIII and think he can be successful - but not like this. Everyone knows he needs to grow, but to be successful he needs talent around him that grows too. |
How about Trent Williams, who seems destined for many Pro Bowls down the road? Alfred Morris, a phenomenal rookie back? An o-line that has been pretty solid overall so far? The offense certainly hasn't stopped Griffin from playing like a monster so far, and he likely has at least two big time players to go with him going forward - that's more than many QBs can say.
I don't personally believe supporting casts do much to influence a QB's play - not even that much for the younger ones. But since you do, you should pretty clearly see that RG3 has a lot going for him on offense.
| Quote: | | Where will this team be 3 years from now? Many of the players that are good on Washington won't be there 3 years from now and they wont have the picks to replace and grow with Griffin. |
Which ones won't be there?
| Quote: | | Add to the fact, without talent around, will the record be enough to buy Shanny more years? Doubtful. The best formula for wasting a QB, is constantly changing coaches. If this team doesn't start winning, he's gone... This is year 3 of the Shanny and Son experiment. The shine is dulling and Snyder knows the money will dry up. He'll go out and get a new GM and coach to keep interest alive. He always does. |
You're saying it's a revolving door before the first coach is even fired. And even then (if it happens this year - not even closer to a guarantee), it's just one coaching change. One change isn't going to kill the guy's career.
| Quote: | | And this isn't the first time Washington has traded picks for a QB... What about 2005? Where's Campbell now? |
One tiny difference: Griffin is actually good.
| Quote: | | Long story short, it's all about the management dummy. Doesn't matter who the QB is. If the management isn't stable the thing falls apart. |
Bad management causes teams to fall apart. Not individual players.
| Quote: | | So even 3-5 years from now when we view this it will be even more warped than it is now. Rams will be one of the best teams in the NFL, with young talent |
And maybe no quarterback. Good luck with that.
| Quote: | | and plenty of cap space. |
Why will they have cap space? Their young players are going to start hitting their second contracts. That'll drain the cap space very quickly.
| Quote: | | Washington will probably be on its' 3rd coach, RG III will probably be traded for a 4-6 round pick. |
So RG3 is going to go from being talked about as an MVP candidate as a rookie to being traded for a mid round pick. Wow.
| Quote: | | Don't believe? Ask yourself what happened to Ramsey and Campbell. You don't have to be Nostradamus to figure this one out. Just have to have a decent memory and have followed Washington for 10 years... |
You're acting like all quarterbacks are interchangeable and completely dependent on their circumstances. No chance. Griffin is far better than either of those quarterbacks ever were.
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| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | I'd much rather be in our position now than the Ravens, that's for sure. |
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mozwanted
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to lose
When your rookie qb posts up 93% completion and 4 tds against a division rival. Breaking all franchise records |
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lavar703
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4835
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| footy_29 wrote: | In response to Dunderhead:
1 - Even with the other 18MM cap penalty in 2013, the Redskins will have ~14 million in cap space if we assume a 120MM salary cap. Not a lot, but enough to sign a top FA corner, their draft picks and some veteran depth.
2 - Jason Campbell still cannot make progression reads. Yes, they could have done a better job developing him, but he was not franchise QB material.
3 - Players signed through the 2014 season includes 25+ players:
Three of their starting offensive lineman, including their franchise LT
Pierre Garcon
All three DL starters
The 2011 and 2012 drafts - the nucleus of the future team.
4 - Patrick Ramsey was poorly developed.
5 - Finally, it's two high picks, but they are still just 2 picks. It will not make or break the Redskins building a foundation around RG3. The cap penalty is what truly hurts, but that will be over with after the 2013 season and the team will have ~30MM to address any pertinent needs with impact free agents, and re-sign their own developed players.
**There is a lot riding on the RG3 developing into an elite QB, but people have to stop assuming that minus 2 first round picks the Redskins are incapable of building around RG3. |
You probably shouldn't waste your time with Dunderhead Footy...
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| Deets wrote: | | Absolutely nothing. In two years, Ryan Tannehill will be far better than RGIII. |
RIP Sean Taylor "Forever a Redskin" |
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FosterTheSkins
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| GaTechRavens wrote: | | This needs to be repeated until people start taking it into account: if Griffin becomes an elite QB and Bradford continues to play at an uninspiring level, the Rams lose this deal. Even if they get a great haul out of their picks. |
Thank you! In two years the Skins will have their first round picks back and still have RGIII. Draft picks are a lot more useful when you have someone to build them around.
Drafting a WR is kinda pointless when you don't have anyone who can throw him the ball. You can surround a mediocre qb with all the weapons you want but at the end of the day he will only take a team so far.
When a team has a chance to get a young elite qb its best to jump on it as soon as possible.
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You better run, better run, outrun my QB
All the other D's with the pumped up schemes
You better run, better run, faster than RG3. |
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 17415
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Redskins/Rams Trade for RG3 |
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| Khalid1287 wrote: | | The Rams got the better part of the deal. RG3 is an example of an NFL Bust. All he can do is run but he can't throw |
Today on "Posts you wish you had not written 24 hours ago ..." |
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MKnight82
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| footy_29 wrote: | In response to Dunderhead:
1 - Even with the other 18MM cap penalty in 2013, the Redskins will have ~14 million in cap space if we assume a 120MM salary cap. Not a lot, but enough to sign a top FA corner, their draft picks and some veteran depth.
2 - Jason Campbell still cannot make progression reads. Yes, they could have done a better job developing him, but he was not franchise QB material.
3 - Players signed through the 2014 season includes 25+ players:
Three of their starting offensive lineman, including their franchise LT
Pierre Garcon
All three DL starters
The 2011 and 2012 drafts - the nucleus of the future team.
4 - Patrick Ramsey was poorly developed.
5 - Finally, it's two high picks, but they are still just 2 picks. It will not make or break the Redskins building a foundation around RG3. The cap penalty is what truly hurts, but that will be over with after the 2013 season and the team will have ~30MM to address any pertinent needs with impact free agents, and re-sign their own developed players.
**There is a lot riding on the RG3 developing into an elite QB, but people have to stop assuming that minus 2 first round picks the Redskins are incapable of building around RG3. |
We gave 3 picks for RG3 footy, unless you were just talking about future picks and not including the 2nd last year. |
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