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I think we learn a lot against the Browns
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dahobofest


Joined: 20 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
dahobofest wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
dahobofest wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
dahobofest wrote:
They are as good as their offensive line allows them to be. Simple as that really.


And as long as Jerry is making the decisions with respect to who is selected to play on the o-line, Romo will be running and fighting for his life each and every week while we squander in mediocrity.


That really doesn't have much to do with this year.
GMs/Owners don't have much say on personnel during the year. The players are already on the team, and the coach now decides who plays and coaches them how to play. Jerry Jones is mostly irrelevant to the rest of this year.


Had he done his job with any remote sense of adequacy, he would not have placed the coaching staff - or Romo - in the positions they are in. The issues would've been properly addressed when they needed to be: in the draft. Instead, we got hosed. Again.

So I reject your statement that the problems don't have much to do with this year. They do.


That's not what I said. I said the rest of this year (which was what my comment was about) has nothing to do with Jerry Jones. His job ends in at the beginning of the year. They're not adding players, coaches, etc... now the coaches have to coach and the players have to play. Jerry is irrelevant moving forward.


A GM's job runs all year long. Otherwise, players would not be signed off the street or from practice squads of other teams throughout the year. Again, you are mistaken. It is a GM's primary responsibility to provide the personnel to the coaches throughout the year to ensure that they are best prepared for a game each and every week.

And yes, you did say that our problems don't have much to do with this year. It was your opening sentence.


I clearly meant moving forward as I said later in the same post. You just have a need to make everything about Jerry Jones. There's really not much about Jerry Jones left in this year, but of course, you have to try to make it about him. Does your anger for him get you anywhere? Does it make your life better? Has it changed anything? Get over it.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dahobofest wrote:
I clearly meant moving forward as I said later in the same post. You just have a need to make everything about Jerry Jones. There's really not much about Jerry Jones left in this year, but of course, you have to try to make it about him. Does your anger for him get you anywhere? Does it make your life better? Has it changed anything? Get over it.


My point is pretty clear: had this organization handled its business properly when it had the chance, we would not be in this position. Why is that so hard to understand and accept? So yes, it is about Jerry. Garrett's incompetence as a head coach is bad enough, but it's compounded with an incompetent GM who doesn't even take the time to provide his most valuable asset - his QB - with the tools to protect him and make him successful. That's the primary job of a GM.
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dahobofest


Joined: 20 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
dahobofest wrote:
I clearly meant moving forward as I said later in the same post. You just have a need to make everything about Jerry Jones. There's really not much about Jerry Jones left in this year, but of course, you have to try to make it about him. Does your anger for him get you anywhere? Does it make your life better? Has it changed anything? Get over it.


My point is pretty clear: had this organization handled its business properly when it had the chance, we would not be in this position. Why is that so hard to understand and accept? So yes, it is about Jerry. Garrett's incompetence as a head coach is bad enough, but it's compounded with an incompetent GM who doesn't even take the time to provide his most valuable asset - his QB - with the tools to protect him and make him successful. That's the primary job of a GM.


Your stance is well documented.

Can we just get a sticky at the top of the forum where Plan can have his rant on Jerry Jones?
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, how about this. Let's just hope that Jerry changes his ways and we draft a couple of offensive linemen and fix the problem this year. That way, everyone is happy
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MightyMouse07


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God are we seriously falling back into this again?

We get it. Plan I understand. Jerry is the GM and he is to blame for the OL problems from a drafting stand point and a free agency stand point. Constantly stating such only drives people away on the forum. It turns every argument into the same one.

I don't like Jerry as a GM as much as the next guy but turning each thread into something about him does nothing.
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I dont think I have seen a more arrogant a-hole on this site that wasnt an eagles fan.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Well, how about this. Let's just hope that Jerry changes his ways and we draft a couple of offensive linemen and fix the problem this year. That way, everyone is happy


Meh - wouldn't make Plan happy - he'd just complain about Jerry ignoring another position (safety this time?) just like it was our secondary and our linebackers prior. If we let Spencer walk and his replacement isn't a HOFer then that draw his ire - if we do resign him it'll be overoaying a bum who only produces in contract ye

I think its clear to everyone with eyes that our OL is a weakness and that Jerry Jones isn't the greatest GM in the NFL. But with the bad there is plenty of good. Murray, Lee, Carter, Carr, etc. And while he'd like you not to believe it, we have invested over a dozen picks into our OL with many being what he considers "high " draft picks. Then it's Jerry's fault for taking those guys and them not developing rather than a groups fault including Houck, scouts, etc - it is what it is - will never change
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dahobofest


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if the Cowboys won the super bowl this year... would Jerry still be that terrible?
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MH, you bring up a great point about the development of our linemen. He has drafted plenty, and not all have to be high draft picks. In fact, some of the best guards in the league weren't high picks. Development is crucial, and you can't really fault the GM for that. Its not not his fault, but I can't say that it is his fault either. If that makes sense... Laughing
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
Meh - wouldn't make Plan happy - he'd just complain about Jerry ignoring another position (safety this time?) just like it was our secondary and our linebackers prior. If we let Spencer walk and his replacement isn't a HOFer then that draw his ire - if we do resign him it'll be overoaying a bum who only produces in contract ye


This is where you're mistaken, MH. And you know that you're mistaken here. I have NEVER supported the notion of drafting a Safety not named Eric Berry high in the draft because I don't consider it a valuable position. In fact, I've been very vocal about that. I have been vocal - for the last 8 years - about needing to consistently draft offensive and defensive linemen with high picks and to perform the proper amount of research on players to ensure that we're drafting the right ones. The fact that we've ignored them and/or wasted higher picks on inferior players is proof that the adequate amount of study on players is not being done.

Quote:
I think its clear to everyone with eyes that our OL is a weakness and that Jerry Jones isn't the greatest GM in the NFL. But with the bad there is plenty of good. Murray, Lee, Carter, Carr, etc. And while he'd like you not to believe it, we have invested over a dozen picks into our OL with many being what he considers "high " draft picks. Then it's Jerry's fault for taking those guys and them not developing rather than a groups fault including Houck, scouts, etc - it is what it is - will never change


Over a dozen picks, MH? Prove it.

And I blame all parties for not developing talent into players, not just Jerry. I've been very vocal about that as well. You simply choose to ignore it to fit your agenda. All I've said is that while I blame the coaching staff and scouts for not doing their jobs up to snuff, I also fault the GM for hiring the wrong people and for not replacing those people after they continually prove that they can't do their jobs well.

In other words, MH, I expect a GM to actually perform the duties and responsibilities associated with the position. We currently have a man parading around as a GM who doesn't actually dedicate the time or effort to the job, and I consider that to be the root of all problems Cowboys.
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.


Last edited by plan9misfit on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dahobofest wrote:
What if the Cowboys won the super bowl this year... would Jerry still be that terrible?


Yes, he would. You can't have a stretch of utter failure for as long as we've had without being terrible. And we're not even going to reach the playoffs this year, so your point is moot.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MightyMouse07 wrote:
God are we seriously falling back into this again?

We get it. Plan I understand. Jerry is the GM and he is to blame for the OL problems from a drafting stand point and a free agency stand point. Constantly stating such only drives people away on the forum. It turns every argument into the same one.

I don't like Jerry as a GM as much as the next guy but turning each thread into something about him does nothing.


I'd be just as critical of the GM if his name was John Smith, MM. I fault the man who fails the team. It just so happens that Jerry is the one responsible for it.
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MightyMouse07


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
God are we seriously falling back into this again?

We get it. Plan I understand. Jerry is the GM and he is to blame for the OL problems from a drafting stand point and a free agency stand point. Constantly stating such only drives people away on the forum. It turns every argument into the same one.

I don't like Jerry as a GM as much as the next guy but turning each thread into something about him does nothing.


I'd be just as critical of the GM if his name was John Smith, MM. I fault the man who fails the team. It just so happens that Jerry is the one responsible for it.


I KNOW! I ALREADY SAID I AGREE WITH YOU!



Its the same thing everytime and the same people arguing. Instead of repeating yourself and your same arguments add something different to the conversation. We know Jerry is the one who ultimately deserves the blame and credit because he is the one making the moves and decisions. We understand when its bad that he is the reason it is bad and when it is good, he is the reason it is good. All the threads dissolve into Jerry arguments and its stupid. You are a very smart guy, MH is a very smart guy, etc but we always have the same stupid [inappropriate/removed] argument about Jerry Jones. Can we just move on from it and discuss other stuff? How about Dez coming into his own today? How about Tony not throwing an INT today? Maybe some discussion about Bruce Carter and how amazing he has been and how awesome next year will be with him and Lee next to each other?
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mco65


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I contend that when Lee is back, Carter disappears at least somewhat. Certainly Carter is aided by the fact that Lee is not on the field making the plays that he is now making. That doesn't mean i don't want both in there.. but its no coincidence that Carter starts to shine after Lee is no longer on the field.

Who knows, maybe Carter is better than Lee.. ? blasphemy i know!
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
I contend that when Lee is back, Carter disappears at least somewhat. Certainly Carter is aided by the fact that Lee is not on the field making the plays that he is now making. That doesn't mean i don't want both in there.. but its no coincidence that Carter starts to shine after Lee is no longer on the field.

Who knows, maybe Carter is better than Lee.. ? blasphemy i know!


I think that Carter was still making a name for himself, even with Lee. All I know is that they will be a very difficult tandem to handle for the next 8 years or so
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
mco65 wrote:
I contend that when Lee is back, Carter disappears at least somewhat. Certainly Carter is aided by the fact that Lee is not on the field making the plays that he is now making. That doesn't mean i don't want both in there.. but its no coincidence that Carter starts to shine after Lee is no longer on the field.

Who knows, maybe Carter is better than Lee.. ? blasphemy i know!


I think that Carter was still making a name for himself, even with Lee. All I know is that they will be a very difficult tandem to handle for the next 8 years or so


A better DL would help out that linebacking corps and secondary we've put together...
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