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PhinFan52


Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 4341
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Let's talk DE..... Reply with quote

ok. most agree we need a DE.. if/wen we lose one of the DT.. we move Odrick inside.. so do we.......

1. Draft DE in 1st rd.. who ? and Why ?

2. draft a DE in 2nd-3rd rd Who and Why?

or do we try to sign a FA DE like..

Osi Umenyiora .. NYG.. 31 yrs old

Cliff Avil .. DET.. 27 yrs old..

Michael Johnson .. CIN...

or somebody else... ??

and explan why ?
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am from the camp that would rather keep Starks in a 4/3 than Solia.

sug
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 692
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys likely to go in first round.
Sam Montgomery, Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner.

Guys that could be there in the second.
Jackson Jeffcoat, Alex Okafor, Corey Lemonier.

Not sure about Damontre Moore, Dion Jordan, Cornellius Carradine.

FWIW, in my mock I had us dealing Solia and drafting Okafor with pick 2A. I also had us parting ways with Jake Long requiring pick 1 to be spent on an OT.
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 514
Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Simon in the 3rd round. Steal of the draft. I want nothing to to do with Mingo or Montgomery. Both thought they were locks to be top 5 picks and both have done nothing but count their money all year long. As for DT, this years class is so deep it's just not possible to screw up. I'm talking to YOU Jeff Ireland.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1953
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damontre moore is not making out of the top 15. Ziggy ansah from byu is going top 20 with a boom or bust jpp type freakish athlete who just learned the game 3 years ago.
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we'll win 1 or 2 games leaving us at 5 or 6 wins and probably about 8-10 in the draft, which would have been a pleasant surprise in August.

If we could trade back into the 20s I think we could possibly pick up a valuable pick between around 50 or so, maybe late 2nd or early 3rd.

WR and Guard are deep enough that guys from the 2nd & 3rd rounds will be contributors. It would be hard for me not to pick offense in round 1 though. It's our most important need.

I could see us adding a top-tier rusher but I'm not in favor of either LSU guy or a prospect that's uncertain. We can't afford to gamble on someone who might be JPP if they might be Vernon Gholston.
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 514
Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
I think we'll win 1 or 2 games leaving us at 5 or 6 wins and probably about 8-10 in the draft, which would have been a pleasant surprise in August.

If we could trade back into the 20s I think we could possibly pick up a valuable pick between around 50 or so, maybe late 2nd or early 3rd.

WR and Guard are deep enough that guys from the 2nd & 3rd rounds will be contributors. It would be hard for me not to pick offense in round 1 though. It's our most important need.

I could see us adding a top-tier rusher but I'm not in favor of either LSU guy or a prospect that's uncertain. We can't afford to gamble on someone who might be JPP if they might be Vernon Gholston.



Trading back and getting Deandre Hopkins would be sweet.
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PhinFan52


Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need to go DE via FA.. I'd love t see either Johnson or Avril signed to play DE ...
Johnson... Odrick.. Starks...Wake

IMO Starks is worth the money Soliai isn'y .. for the pressure he puts on QB's where Soliai is a great run stuffer ( only )
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
phinmun wrote:
I think we'll win 1 or 2 games leaving us at 5 or 6 wins and probably about 8-10 in the draft, which would have been a pleasant surprise in August.

If we could trade back into the 20s I think we could possibly pick up a valuable pick between around 50 or so, maybe late 2nd or early 3rd.

WR and Guard are deep enough that guys from the 2nd & 3rd rounds will be contributors. It would be hard for me not to pick offense in round 1 though. It's our most important need.

I could see us adding a top-tier rusher but I'm not in favor of either LSU guy or a prospect that's uncertain. We can't afford to gamble on someone who might be JPP if they might be Vernon Gholston.



Trading back and getting Deandre Hopkins would be sweet.



I think Hopkins is going to stay at Clemson.

It's really unfortunate for us (Miami) but it's probably going to happen. It's certainly best for us here at Clemson! Laughing

Clemson is being led by one of the best Offensive Coordinators in college football. Next year, that offense will have Boyd @ QB in his 3rd year, Watkins & Hopkins together @ WR and a bunch of other returning weapons and linemen. If Clemson could ever justifiably have dreams of running the table, it'll be next year and Hopkins will know that. Dabo Sweeney will keep him focused on the task I think.

He could be one of the top WRs coming out if he stayed anyway.
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skatewood2


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
John Simon in the 3rd round. Steal of the draft. I want nothing to to do with Mingo or Montgomery. Both thought they were locks to be top 5 picks and both have done nothing but count their money all year long. As for DT, this years class is so deep it's just not possible to screw up. I'm talking to YOU Jeff Ireland.


This man knows Wink Laughing
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
hammer wrote:
John Simon in the 3rd round. Steal of the draft. I want nothing to to do with Mingo or Montgomery. Both thought they were locks to be top 5 picks and both have done nothing but count their money all year long. As for DT, this years class is so deep it's just not possible to screw up. I'm talking to YOU Jeff Ireland.


This man knows Wink Laughing



Problem is you just know Mike Vrabel (LB coach at Ohio State) is telling Belichick he needs to draft Simon.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that our draft spot could end up a top 8pick with the way thinga are going i would love for damontre moore to slip out of the top 5 to us. Only player who measurables and production on the field match each other.
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
Now that our draft spot could end up a top 8pick with the way thinga are going i would love for damontre moore to slip out of the top 5 to us. Only player who measurables and production on the field match each other.


I think we have a shot at picking third. I just don't see another win. Keep in mind we're the healthiest team in the NFL and STILL suck. It is just a matter of time before we have a few key injuries.
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Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say screw defense. Baltimore and Pitt have had two notoriously nasty D's over the past 10 years or so. Baltimore has 1 SB and 1 SB appearance. Pitt got lucky against Sea and used an offense to beat Arizona.

Chi - had an elite, maybe best ever, D back in '06? and the colts still won the SB because Chicago's offense couldn't move the ball.

NYG - As great as NY's D played against the Pats, they were one of the worst rated (28th) in December last season. They get hot, win the SB.

NE, Indy, NO, Ari all had elite level offenses.

I would much rather surround Tannehill with elite offensive players than chase Manning/Brady/Brees around with defensive players.

Most recently. See Houston get annialated (sp)by Green Bay. The league is setup for comebacks, high scores and passing. You can't JUST pass but you have to be able to throw the ball.

If we don't give RT weapons, better protection etc, he is going to be questioned and ultimately replaced. Lots of qb's have talent, but if you dont provide them with proper talent it just goes to waste.

Even the great Dan Marino was better with the Marks Brothers instead of McDuffie and Gadsden.

Matt Ryan, above average qb. Given Jones and Gonzalez and now up for league MVP. They can't do it by themselves.

Get D later. Like way later.
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
I say screw defense. Baltimore and Pitt have had two notoriously nasty D's over the past 10 years or so. Baltimore has 1 SB and 1 SB appearance. Pitt got lucky against Sea and used an offense to beat Arizona.

Chi - had an elite, maybe best ever, D back in '06? and the colts still won the SB because Chicago's offense couldn't move the ball.

NYG - As great as NY's D played against the Pats, they were one of the worst rated (28th) in December last season. They get hot, win the SB.

NE, Indy, NO, Ari all had elite level offenses.

I would much rather surround Tannehill with elite offensive players than chase Manning/Brady/Brees around with defensive players.

Most recently. See Houston get annialated (sp)by Green Bay. The league is setup for comebacks, high scores and passing. You can't JUST pass but you have to be able to throw the ball.

If we don't give RT weapons, better protection etc, he is going to be questioned and ultimately replaced. Lots of qb's have talent, but if you dont provide them with proper talent it just goes to waste.

Even the great Dan Marino was better with the Marks Brothers instead of McDuffie and Gadsden.

Matt Ryan, above average qb. Given Jones and Gonzalez and now up for league MVP. They can't do it by themselves.

Get D later. Like way later.


I agree with the sentiment. There's no doubt the offense is the name of the game.

However, with pass rush being the only glaring need on defense and with so many great offensive players (G, OT, WR, TE) available later you have to think about using that top-10 pick on an elite pass rusher so you can focus all your other picks on offense.

It's a discussion you have to have either way you choose to go.

After all, consider that all those Super Bowl winning teams featured great defenses that at some point made big plays. Great pass rushers pressured the QB while great LBs and DBs created turnovers.

We're be solid on defense if we could just get by with rushing 4 players more consistently. The defenses you listed above could all do that and all featured great players in the front-7.

Currently we only have 2: Wake & Dansby. We need at least another.
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