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PhinFan52
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 4308
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 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: Let's talk DE..... |
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ok. most agree we need a DE.. if/wen we lose one of the DT.. we move Odrick inside.. so do we.......
1. Draft DE in 1st rd.. who ? and Why ?
2. draft a DE in 2nd-3rd rd Who and Why?
or do we try to sign a FA DE like..
Osi Umenyiora .. NYG.. 31 yrs old
Cliff Avil .. DET.. 27 yrs old..
Michael Johnson .. CIN...
or somebody else... ??
and explan why ? |
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6453
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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I am from the camp that would rather keep Starks in a 4/3 than Solia.
sug
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Russ57
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 538
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Guys likely to go in first round.
Sam Montgomery, Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner.
Guys that could be there in the second.
Jackson Jeffcoat, Alex Okafor, Corey Lemonier.
Not sure about Damontre Moore, Dion Jordan, Cornellius Carradine.
FWIW, in my mock I had us dealing Solia and drafting Okafor with pick 2A. I also had us parting ways with Jake Long requiring pick 1 to be spent on an OT. |
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hammer
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 504
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:44 am Post subject: |
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John Simon in the 3rd round. Steal of the draft. I want nothing to to do with Mingo or Montgomery. Both thought they were locks to be top 5 picks and both have done nothing but count their money all year long. As for DT, this years class is so deep it's just not possible to screw up. I'm talking to YOU Jeff Ireland.
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1127
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Damontre moore is not making out of the top 15. Ziggy ansah from byu is going top 20 with a boom or bust jpp type freakish athlete who just learned the game 3 years ago. |
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think we'll win 1 or 2 games leaving us at 5 or 6 wins and probably about 8-10 in the draft, which would have been a pleasant surprise in August.
If we could trade back into the 20s I think we could possibly pick up a valuable pick between around 50 or so, maybe late 2nd or early 3rd.
WR and Guard are deep enough that guys from the 2nd & 3rd rounds will be contributors. It would be hard for me not to pick offense in round 1 though. It's our most important need.
I could see us adding a top-tier rusher but I'm not in favor of either LSU guy or a prospect that's uncertain. We can't afford to gamble on someone who might be JPP if they might be Vernon Gholston. |
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hammer
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 504
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| phinmun wrote: | I think we'll win 1 or 2 games leaving us at 5 or 6 wins and probably about 8-10 in the draft, which would have been a pleasant surprise in August.
If we could trade back into the 20s I think we could possibly pick up a valuable pick between around 50 or so, maybe late 2nd or early 3rd.
WR and Guard are deep enough that guys from the 2nd & 3rd rounds will be contributors. It would be hard for me not to pick offense in round 1 though. It's our most important need.
I could see us adding a top-tier rusher but I'm not in favor of either LSU guy or a prospect that's uncertain. We can't afford to gamble on someone who might be JPP if they might be Vernon Gholston. |
Trading back and getting Deandre Hopkins would be sweet.
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PhinFan52
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 4308
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think we need to go DE via FA.. I'd love t see either Johnson or Avril signed to play DE ...
Johnson... Odrick.. Starks...Wake
IMO Starks is worth the money Soliai isn'y .. for the pressure he puts on QB's where Soliai is a great run stuffer ( only ) |
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| hammer wrote: | | phinmun wrote: | I think we'll win 1 or 2 games leaving us at 5 or 6 wins and probably about 8-10 in the draft, which would have been a pleasant surprise in August.
If we could trade back into the 20s I think we could possibly pick up a valuable pick between around 50 or so, maybe late 2nd or early 3rd.
WR and Guard are deep enough that guys from the 2nd & 3rd rounds will be contributors. It would be hard for me not to pick offense in round 1 though. It's our most important need.
I could see us adding a top-tier rusher but I'm not in favor of either LSU guy or a prospect that's uncertain. We can't afford to gamble on someone who might be JPP if they might be Vernon Gholston. |
Trading back and getting Deandre Hopkins would be sweet. |
I think Hopkins is going to stay at Clemson.
It's really unfortunate for us (Miami) but it's probably going to happen. It's certainly best for us here at Clemson! 
Clemson is being led by one of the best Offensive Coordinators in college football. Next year, that offense will have Boyd @ QB in his 3rd year, Watkins & Hopkins together @ WR and a bunch of other returning weapons and linemen. If Clemson could ever justifiably have dreams of running the table, it'll be next year and Hopkins will know that. Dabo Sweeney will keep him focused on the task I think.
He could be one of the top WRs coming out if he stayed anyway. |
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skatewood2
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5543
Location: Kent, WA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| hammer wrote: | | John Simon in the 3rd round. Steal of the draft. I want nothing to to do with Mingo or Montgomery. Both thought they were locks to be top 5 picks and both have done nothing but count their money all year long. As for DT, this years class is so deep it's just not possible to screw up. I'm talking to YOU Jeff Ireland. |
This man knows 
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College - THE Ohio State University Buckeyes |
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hammer
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 504
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| skatewood2 wrote: | | hammer wrote: | | John Simon in the 3rd round. Steal of the draft. I want nothing to to do with Mingo or Montgomery. Both thought they were locks to be top 5 picks and both have done nothing but count their money all year long. As for DT, this years class is so deep it's just not possible to screw up. I'm talking to YOU Jeff Ireland. |
This man knows |
Problem is you just know Mike Vrabel (LB coach at Ohio State) is telling Belichick he needs to draft Simon.
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NCAA: The Ohio State University
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1127
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Now that our draft spot could end up a top 8pick with the way thinga are going i would love for damontre moore to slip out of the top 5 to us. Only player who measurables and production on the field match each other. |
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hammer
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 504
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| fishfan4life wrote: | | Now that our draft spot could end up a top 8pick with the way thinga are going i would love for damontre moore to slip out of the top 5 to us. Only player who measurables and production on the field match each other. |
I think we have a shot at picking third. I just don't see another win. Keep in mind we're the healthiest team in the NFL and STILL suck. It is just a matter of time before we have a few key injuries.
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Clutch
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2236
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I say screw defense. Baltimore and Pitt have had two notoriously nasty D's over the past 10 years or so. Baltimore has 1 SB and 1 SB appearance. Pitt got lucky against Sea and used an offense to beat Arizona.
Chi - had an elite, maybe best ever, D back in '06? and the colts still won the SB because Chicago's offense couldn't move the ball.
NYG - As great as NY's D played against the Pats, they were one of the worst rated (28th) in December last season. They get hot, win the SB.
NE, Indy, NO, Ari all had elite level offenses.
I would much rather surround Tannehill with elite offensive players than chase Manning/Brady/Brees around with defensive players.
Most recently. See Houston get annialated (sp)by Green Bay. The league is setup for comebacks, high scores and passing. You can't JUST pass but you have to be able to throw the ball.
If we don't give RT weapons, better protection etc, he is going to be questioned and ultimately replaced. Lots of qb's have talent, but if you dont provide them with proper talent it just goes to waste.
Even the great Dan Marino was better with the Marks Brothers instead of McDuffie and Gadsden.
Matt Ryan, above average qb. Given Jones and Gonzalez and now up for league MVP. They can't do it by themselves.
Get D later. Like way later.
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Clutch wrote: | I say screw defense. Baltimore and Pitt have had two notoriously nasty D's over the past 10 years or so. Baltimore has 1 SB and 1 SB appearance. Pitt got lucky against Sea and used an offense to beat Arizona.
Chi - had an elite, maybe best ever, D back in '06? and the colts still won the SB because Chicago's offense couldn't move the ball.
NYG - As great as NY's D played against the Pats, they were one of the worst rated (28th) in December last season. They get hot, win the SB.
NE, Indy, NO, Ari all had elite level offenses.
I would much rather surround Tannehill with elite offensive players than chase Manning/Brady/Brees around with defensive players.
Most recently. See Houston get annialated (sp)by Green Bay. The league is setup for comebacks, high scores and passing. You can't JUST pass but you have to be able to throw the ball.
If we don't give RT weapons, better protection etc, he is going to be questioned and ultimately replaced. Lots of qb's have talent, but if you dont provide them with proper talent it just goes to waste.
Even the great Dan Marino was better with the Marks Brothers instead of McDuffie and Gadsden.
Matt Ryan, above average qb. Given Jones and Gonzalez and now up for league MVP. They can't do it by themselves.
Get D later. Like way later. |
I agree with the sentiment. There's no doubt the offense is the name of the game.
However, with pass rush being the only glaring need on defense and with so many great offensive players (G, OT, WR, TE) available later you have to think about using that top-10 pick on an elite pass rusher so you can focus all your other picks on offense.
It's a discussion you have to have either way you choose to go.
After all, consider that all those Super Bowl winning teams featured great defenses that at some point made big plays. Great pass rushers pressured the QB while great LBs and DBs created turnovers.
We're be solid on defense if we could just get by with rushing 4 players more consistently. The defenses you listed above could all do that and all featured great players in the front-7.
Currently we only have 2: Wake & Dansby. We need at least another. |
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