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Why Does These Dolphins Make Offense Seem So Hard?
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Jaytotha


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:



I can give you single examples of those things like Cam Cameron's offense, Brandon Marshall's short stint here or Ricky Williams' glory-days but at what point can you actually say that each one of those 5 necessary things existed at the same time?

They exist in New England, in Green Bay, in Pittsburgh, in New Orleans, in Atlanta, in Indy, in Denver, in Baltimore, in NY (Giants) and certainly have in other places like San Deigo too.

They have never come together in Miami.


All of those franchises have one thing in common.... Franchise QB. I also wouldn't add Indy and San Diego in there. Norv is about to get fired and Indy we haven't seen enough.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaytotha wrote:
phinmun wrote:



I can give you single examples of those things like Cam Cameron's offense, Brandon Marshall's short stint here or Ricky Williams' glory-days but at what point can you actually say that each one of those 5 necessary things existed at the same time?

They exist in New England, in Green Bay, in Pittsburgh, in New Orleans, in Atlanta, in Indy, in Denver, in Baltimore, in NY (Giants) and certainly have in other places like San Deigo too.

They have never come together in Miami.


All of those franchises have one thing in common.... Franchise QB. I also wouldn't add Indy and San Diego in there. Norv is about to get fired and Indy we haven't seen enough.


No, no, no....Indy was a reference to Peyton Manning's era there and San Diego was a reference to the great teams they've had recently with Tomlinson, Gates, Jackson and Rivers. For awhile that was the best offense in football.
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SUG


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me the answer is as clear as black & white.

The root of our shortcomings is based on the fact we could not buy a 1st down last Thursday night &
we hung our Deff out to dry again.

I realize Nolan took a huge step back & I'm just as pissed at him as anyone else but...
The bottom line for me is that our OL needs 3 new starters:
LOT - LG & RG.

I think it's ridiculous for us to ask a rookie QB to carry thie current team past Bess, Hartline & 3 guys that
suck beyond the fact they don't fit the scheme & couldn't open holes for a stud like R. Bush.

We have a lotta wk to do ahead of us, but I'm certain the key is more elementary than 1 or 2 more stud pass catchers.

sug
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DolphWins wrote:
I think if Hartline and Bess were on another team alongside an all pro Quarterback they would do amazingly well. Alot of it is our Oline is terrible, inconsistant playcalling and a rookie QB. Tannehill might be Henne 2.0 so who knows.

I have always been under the assumption good QB's make average WR's good but there is a cap. Luck still has Wayne, RG3 has Moss and Garcon, Wilson has Sidney Rice and Marshawn Lynch. Im sure a majority would rather have any of these QB's seeing as how the season has played out but who does Tannehill have.


Hartline maybe, Bess? No freakin way IMHO. You cannot have a slow slot reciever in today's NFL.
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IrishDolfan


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one thing that Miami and its fans have not tried is patience. The fans of this team are crazy. Win two games in a row and they are screaming play offs. Lose the next two and they are the worse team ever.

If a team does not have a patient and loyal fan base they are forever doomed I think.

Irish Dolfan
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xXxHOUSEDxXx


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IrishDolfan wrote:
The one thing that Miami and its fans have not tried is patience. The fans of this team are crazy. Win two games in a row and they are screaming play offs. Lose the next two and they are the worse team ever.

If a team does not have a patient and loyal fan base they are forever doomed I think.

Irish Dolfan


I agree. Ten years certainly isn't enough time to turn the ship around. Let's give it another five or six years before we expect to see any progress.
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hammer


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IrishDolfan wrote:
The one thing that Miami and its fans have not tried is patience. The fans of this team are crazy. Win two games in a row and they are screaming play offs. Lose the next two and they are the worse team ever.

If a team does not have a patient and loyal fan base they are forever doomed I think.

Irish Dolfan


From experience we know a turd when we see it.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
IrishDolfan wrote:
The one thing that Miami and its fans have not tried is patience. The fans of this team are crazy. Win two games in a row and they are screaming play offs. Lose the next two and they are the worse team ever.

If a team does not have a patient and loyal fan base they are forever doomed I think.

Irish Dolfan


From experience we know a turd when we see it.


Is it a turd? Two weeks ago half you people were saying it was diamonds and gold.

The problem is multi faceted.

1. You need a QB, a guy that is going to give you a chance to win every Sunday. Tannehill has shown he CAN be that guy, but we need to see him do it every Sunday. You can have 3 INT games and be a great quarterback, you just need to win the game when you have the chance. Think about it, if Tannehill led Miami to a TD against Buffalo fans would be saying that he has finally arrived. He had a bad game, and overcame it by leading the team to victory. He needs experience, he needs better interior line play, he needs space to work the ball down field.

2. You need a strength. You need to be able to run the ball (49ers), control the game through the air (NE), or be able to push the ball downfield (Packers). Right now we can't do either of the 3. In the beginning of the year we were 1, then we turned into 3, now we can't do much of anything but are forced to be 2 because of no deep threats.

3. OL has to execute and get a push. You cannot have free rushers, Tannehill is to good at getting the Fins into good plays not to execute. Incognito is a fan and locker room favorite but he is a liability. Martin needs an offseason, but the team needs to bring in RT competition in case he doesn't pan out. Right now those are the weaknesses. Long is average to above average, Pouncey is elite, Jerry is solid.

4. Reliable playmakers. Who on this team can be counted on for 1-3 big plays a game? EVERY playoff team has at least 1 that makes big plays routinely.
Baltimore: Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones
Pitt: Brown, Wallace
NE: Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd can...
Denver: Thomas, Decker
Cinci: Gresham, Green
SF: Davis
GB: Cobb, Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Finley
NYG: Cruz, Nicks
ATL: Jones, White, Gonzo
CHI: Marshall, Forte

Miami has 0. Add 2 guys that defenses lose sleep over and it's a different team.
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IrishDolfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
IrishDolfan wrote:
The one thing that Miami and its fans have not tried is patience. The fans of this team are crazy. Win two games in a row and they are screaming play offs. Lose the next two and they are the worse team ever.

If a team does not have a patient and loyal fan base they are forever doomed I think.

Irish Dolfan


I agree. Ten years certainly isn't enough time to turn the ship around. Let's give it another five or six years before we expect to see any progress.


Did the Miami fans give Cameron 10 years? How about Sparano? And Ireland? People have wanted rid of him for years..

There are not patient fans in Miami. If you think the coach was the best choice before he was hired then give him a chance to build his team and then judge his results. Dont judge him with a srystal ball and a limited data set.

When a fan base start calling for a regimes head and stop showing up to the games they are essentially setting the counter back to zero when it comes to patience.

So when you have said we have been waiting 10 years you are not strictly correct. We have been waiting less than 1.

Irish Dolfan
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Jaytotha wrote:
phinmun wrote:



I can give you single examples of those things like Cam Cameron's offense, Brandon Marshall's short stint here or Ricky Williams' glory-days but at what point can you actually say that each one of those 5 necessary things existed at the same time?

They exist in New England, in Green Bay, in Pittsburgh, in New Orleans, in Atlanta, in Indy, in Denver, in Baltimore, in NY (Giants) and certainly have in other places like San Deigo too.

They have never come together in Miami.


All of those franchises have one thing in common.... Franchise QB. I also wouldn't add Indy and San Diego in there. Norv is about to get fired and Indy we haven't seen enough.


No, no, no....Indy was a reference to Peyton Manning's era there and San Diego was a reference to the great teams they've had recently with Tomlinson, Gates, Jackson and Rivers. For awhile that was the best offense in football.


Screw that. Indy has a franchise QB. The Redskins have a franchise QB. The hell with that too early crap. Luck has the demeanor, confidence and production of adapting to defenses and getting better. That guy also knows how to work the redzone. Sure he will throw his share of ints in the redzone but so did Manning.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
phinmun wrote:
Jaytotha wrote:
phinmun wrote:



I can give you single examples of those things like Cam Cameron's offense, Brandon Marshall's short stint here or Ricky Williams' glory-days but at what point can you actually say that each one of those 5 necessary things existed at the same time?

They exist in New England, in Green Bay, in Pittsburgh, in New Orleans, in Atlanta, in Indy, in Denver, in Baltimore, in NY (Giants) and certainly have in other places like San Deigo too.

They have never come together in Miami.


All of those franchises have one thing in common.... Franchise QB. I also wouldn't add Indy and San Diego in there. Norv is about to get fired and Indy we haven't seen enough.


No, no, no....Indy was a reference to Peyton Manning's era there and San Diego was a reference to the great teams they've had recently with Tomlinson, Gates, Jackson and Rivers. For awhile that was the best offense in football.


Screw that. Indy has a franchise QB. The Redskins have a franchise QB. The hell with that too early crap. Luck has the demeanor, confidence and production of adapting to defenses and getting better. That guy also knows how to work the redzone. Sure he will throw his share of ints in the redzone but so did Manning.


Truth.

Our prospect has done some good things but there's no comparing him to Andrew Luck. RGIII doesn't well too, but I still don't have any doubts Luck is head and shoulders above the others.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:
phinmun wrote:
Jaytotha wrote:
phinmun wrote:



I can give you single examples of those things like Cam Cameron's offense, Brandon Marshall's short stint here or Ricky Williams' glory-days but at what point can you actually say that each one of those 5 necessary things existed at the same time?

They exist in New England, in Green Bay, in Pittsburgh, in New Orleans, in Atlanta, in Indy, in Denver, in Baltimore, in NY (Giants) and certainly have in other places like San Deigo too.

They have never come together in Miami.


All of those franchises have one thing in common.... Franchise QB. I also wouldn't add Indy and San Diego in there. Norv is about to get fired and Indy we haven't seen enough.


No, no, no....Indy was a reference to Peyton Manning's era there and San Diego was a reference to the great teams they've had recently with Tomlinson, Gates, Jackson and Rivers. For awhile that was the best offense in football.


Screw that. Indy has a franchise QB. The Redskins have a franchise QB. The hell with that too early crap. Luck has the demeanor, confidence and production of adapting to defenses and getting better. That guy also knows how to work the redzone. Sure he will throw his share of ints in the redzone but so did Manning.


Truth.

Our prospect has done some good things but there's no comparing him to Andrew Luck. RGIII doesn't well too, but I still don't have any doubts Luck is head and shoulders above the others.


I hate proving points after one game but did you see RGIII yesterday?
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:

phinmun wrote:

Truth.

Our prospect has done some good things but there's no comparing him to Andrew Luck. RGIII doesn't well too, but I still don't have any doubts Luck is head and shoulders above the others.


I hate proving points after one game but did you see RGIII yesterday?


Yeah, I think Andrew Luck is the guy who's going to become an 'elite.' In my mind what RGIII is doing is great but I'm less impressed when I watch him. There's just something missing and I think it's the pocket presence and throwing ability that Luck has displayed even now in his rookie season.

RGIII seems to have decent receivers. Garcon is on my fantasy team so I know that while he's been hurt he's going to be a big weapon in that offense as he gets healthy. He's got great hands and very, very good speed. Santana Moss is good, Hankerson and that other dude seem fine enough, especially running deep routes. Like the Colts, the WRs might be past their prime or a little unsung but you know what, they've got speed and that's what seem to count in the NFL today.

The Redskins have a running game though too. It's Shannahan's offense. While Norv Turner and Andy Reid's offenses have become predictable, I think Shannahan's is still going strong. Maybe that year off did him good, I don't know. He's always been able to run the ball and find those RBs late in the drafts that can become useful.

But, RGIII is definitely the 2nd best prospect no doubt.

However, I'd give RGIII that title because of all the things he can do as an athlete. While Tannehill is athletic, RGIII is a cut above, no doubt. But, there's nothing in yesterday's performance to make me think that Tannehill couldn't have stood in that pocket and made all the same throws that RGIII did. In fact, I would wager Tannehill could even surpass RGIII as a passer (accuracy, ball placement, etc).

I've watched both and don't see many flaws with either. RGIII is throwing the ball well but so is Tannehill.

The biggest difference in the performances is that the Redskins are a more complete team. They're blocking decently up front. They can run the ball. They have solid and above-average options at receiver. They have a solid defense even after losing 2 of their best front-7 players (Orakpo & Carriker).

Tannehill isn't far behind RGIII in talking about throwing ability and the fact that Tannehill too is highly intelligent and highly athletic makes him a pretty solid option.

Judging Tannehill early on was a lot easier. Over the last month here, the entire offense has just bogged down and I can't fault our rookie QB for it when I see a few bad play calls, bad run blocking, bad pass blocking and an overall lack of difference-makers on the outside.
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Clutch


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That throw by Brady to Vereen last night is exactly why ball placement is so key. Garcon made a nice adjustment on that throw from RGIII. Brady put it in a spot where Vereen grabbed it at top speed and was gone. If he puts it even a little off, Bart Scott or the safety get him.

That was elite.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
That throw by Brady to Vereen last night is exactly why ball placement is so key. Garcon made a nice adjustment on that throw from RGIII. Brady put it in a spot where Vereen grabbed it at top speed and was gone. If he puts it even a little off, Bart Scott or the safety get him.

That was elite.


See, I agree. It's the ball placement here and there with RGIII that I don't think is being taken apart. I think Tannehill's throws have been as impressive this year. He's been very accurate when he's had time in the pocket.

It's almost the same case as with Sam Bradford in StL unless I'm wrong. The issue there has been keeping Bradford upright and healthy.
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