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Big Ben's toughness his own worst enemy???
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Plain and simple without the way he plays the Steelers would not have 3 Super Bowl appearances since he came to town. I'm sure he'll take it even if it takes some time off his career. What's better? A 16 year career of never coming close or a 12 year career with making it multiple times?


I think his quality of life after football is more important than either of those.


And Ben's quality of life after football will probably be more effected by a motorcycle accident than his on-the-field football... Motorcylce accident included loss of 20 pounds, a concussion, severe internal bleeding, etc...

On the field he's had knee injury, shoulder injury, broken nose and a concussion. Those first 3 are things anyone can have. In fact my cousin has had the knee and nose injuries. Is her QoL gonig to be bad?


1) All 4 of them are things anyone can have, concussions aren't exclusive to football players.

2) Did I ever say Bens QoL was going to be bad?
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Plain and simple without the way he plays the Steelers would not have 3 Super Bowl appearances since he came to town. I'm sure he'll take it even if it takes some time off his career. What's better? A 16 year career of never coming close or a 12 year career with making it multiple times?


I think his quality of life after football is more important than either of those.


Football players know the risks when they get into football.

Not that I dont want these players to have a good life after football, but they know that lifelong pains are a very real possiblity when they decide to make it their life.


I don't disagree with anything you just said.
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
What the heck?!?

Big Ben has 2 rings! Few players ever get the chance at that kinda glory once, but twice is amazing. He's been to another SB, how anyone can question this man is nuts.

And by the end of a regular season every QB has injuries of some sort, don't fool yourselves. This is a sport for tough guys and because Big Ben is one of the toughest guys he has 2 rings.

Sit around and question why a winner like him just doesn't give up? Why a winner like this doesn't take it easy for awhile? My gosh, if he wasn't like that - if that wasn't in his DNA he'd be nothing. A scrub.

Sorry, but this is fan thinking. Its guys that swill too much beer and think they can do what these world class athletes can do. And to ask that Big Ben plays afraid? Hey, how's that working out for David Carr? At least he can live to run or take a dive another day, huh?


Wow,

I thought I wrote the OP pretty straight forward...maybe you swilled too much beer before reading it.

Calm down, take two deep breathes, go back, read the original post again...and then release how completely wrong you were in interpreting my post.
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Steelerspower


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think that Roethlisberger is worried for his life after football

As Ryan Clark said this week, the players know the risks when you play football


And again, for his injury against the chiefs, his injury is a bad luck.....this is not because of his style if he is injured

The good news, Roethlisberger has a good chance to return to the game before the end of the season

I hope that Leftwith will give a chance to steelers to win some games
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Dunderhead wrote:
No, I didn't you clearly have... I put the thesis down, it's in red.
Just because you write something down doesn't mean you understand the implications behind the statement.

Oh, it's the your stupid I'm smart defense... OK... So you can imply what it means... For the lay man like me does that mean you just change it to suite your purpose?

Quote:
How do you know this? You're making stuff up.
Have you watched him play? Like really watched him play? No, I really really really watched him play! See, I conveniently added another really! Anybody buying this? Thought not... Show me don't tell me. It reeks of arrogance and a bit belittling. At least 2-3 times a game, he will sit in the pocket, move around, wait and wait for a play to develop, move around some more, before making the play. It leads to him getting drilled a lot more often than he needs to. Huh? This is made up. One, he does it more than that and 2 he's 240lbs. It's part of his game. 3 he knows how to take a shot and position his body, the man is highly skilled - more than you give him credit for. Take a look at the play that got him injured. Tell me how many other QBs would have done all that dancing around at that point trying to make a play instead of conceding the sack. Vick and who else?

Let's look at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZrmMKH5m8U

Best view starts at 15 seconds in, he gets tackled at 19 seconds... 4 seconds... Wow what a crazy amount of time! Please, maybe it's best you don't try to prove points with any evidence...

Quote:
Hardly. Yeah, he'll take a shot to make a play, this is different than what great QB? Again, you're making stuff up.
He does it far more than any other QB I can think of, other than Vick.

Than you can think of... Well that's not a lot to go by... Rodgers holds the ball a ton too. Favre did and he had the record for longevity... They were/are always looking to make a play.

Quote:
And you know this how? What is the "happy medium"?
How do I know this? Because a lot of other QBs are able to mitigate big hits with their play style. The happy medium is finding a way to make plays to help your team while mitigating your risk for injury.

So you know this but don't have any proof... Truth is Big Ben hasn't missed that much time. The dude weighs 240lbs, that's a fullback. He breaks tackles all the time. His success shows it works.


Quote:
which coincidentally goes against your whole hypothesis... Why would you continue? Thanks for the help!
How does it go against the hypothesis? Because you can get hurt, getting hurt more often isn't an issue? Those guys have had a combined two injuries that led to them missing time. Ben has had what? 6?

But he hasn't been that injury prone or lost that many games. Those pocket passer with the quick release have missed more time. But those guys have had other injuries that have caused them to not perform as well. This isn't as easy as you think to determine. Their playing styles and what they do are different.

Quote:
What way? I still see them take hits. Ben's been in this league for 9 seasons. A third of them have lead to Super Bowl appearances. Big Ben doesn't have a quick release like Manning or Brady - how would you turn him into "those guys"? Those guys that have missed far more time than Big Ben.
The "success rate" isn't relevant to the argument at all. The fact that he can make it to the Super Bowl doesn't mean he's going to not get injured.

They all get injured! It's a violent game. Success is all that matters. I do not understand this point at all. Straw! Thou hast been grasped!

Quote:
Seriously, 9 seasons is a long career already... Nobody is offering evidence (hint- cause there is none) that his style of play leads to anymore injuries or anymore lost time.
Look at his injury history. Look at Mike Vick's injury history. Then look at the injury history of other QBs. You really think he's taking no more hits than all these other QBs and is just having more injuries that have led to missing time because he's fragile?


What? They are nothing alike! Have you looked at them? They aren't even close to comparable players.

Big Ben - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

Mike Vick - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm

Now add John Elway... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

He looks far more like Elway than Vick. And Elway had what? 15 seasons? Of course, that sorta makes your argument look a bit silly.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:

Wow,

I thought I wrote the OP pretty straight forward... Obviously not, because the last guy wants me to infer (and he's a mod), that'd be not straight forward. maybe you swilled too much beer before reading it. I didn't drink anything, but I do notice a common thread amongst those that offer no evidence, have evidence presented to them that shows they are wrong and are left with nothing but "I just know or gut feeling type stuff"- they inject that the other person is drunk or high or really not watching... But no evidence. Why is that?

Calm down, take two deep breathes, go back, read the original post again...and then release how completely wrong you were in interpreting my post.


I went back and it's what I remember... The thesis didn't change and its as bogus now as ever. It's a random thought without support, probably took all of 15 min from thought to hitting send button (if it took longer I wouldn't brag). It's funny because you should be objecting to what the mod is saying! In that post you say that the play where Big Ben gets injured really isn't something he could prevent. The mod says the opposite. But I MUST be drunk! Yeah, that sounds like a good conclusion...
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:

Wow,

I thought I wrote the OP pretty straight forward... Obviously not, because the last guy wants me to infer (and he's a mod), that'd be not straight forward. maybe you swilled too much beer before reading it. I didn't drink anything, but I do notice a common thread amongst those that offer no evidence, have evidence presented to them that shows they are wrong and are left with nothing but "I just know or gut feeling type stuff"- they inject that the other person is drunk or high or really not watching... But no evidence. Why is that?

Calm down, take two deep breathes, go back, read the original post again...and then release how completely wrong you were in interpreting my post.


I went back and it's what I remember... The thesis didn't change and its as bogus now as ever. It's a random thought without support, probably took all of 15 min from thought to hitting send button (if it took longer I wouldn't brag). It's funny because you should be objecting to what the mod is saying! In that post you say that the play where Big Ben gets injured really isn't something he could prevent. The mod says the opposite. But I MUST be drunk! Yeah, that sounds like a good conclusion...


Seriously, just stop.

You're playing the whole "smartest man in the room" thing waaaay too hard.

Everyone except you seems to get it.

Big Ben is great, and part of his greatness is his toughness. He takes shot more often than the other elite QBs in the game, and because of his toughness, he gets away with it.

The obvious point that I was trying to make and what everyone except you seems to understand is that while Big Ben has gotten away with that type of play for some time now, he is starting to get old. He now older than 30, and he's not going to be able to take the shots that he has throughout his 20s.

While a 9 year career is definitely great and considered a success even if it were to end tomorrow....you are acting like there is no benefit for him to start playing with a little bit more caution. Not every game is the superbowl, and now every 3 and long is a must make.

While you've pointed out a few exceptions to great players that have had long success while throwing caution to the wind....those are exceptions, not the rule.

The franchise QBs throughout the history of the game have had longer careers than any other position as a whole. This has happened because the league, organization they play for, and the QBs themselves make sure to protect their bodies throughout the seasons.

Big Ben's career could end this sunday and he would have had a fulfilling career. But to act like him starting to play with a little bit more caution since he's getting older and can't take the hits he did when he was younger is stupid and will cause him to not be as good a QB, that's just ridiculous.

THERE'S NO HARM IN CHANGING THE WAY YOU PLAY A LITTLE BIT TO INCREASE THE CHANCES OF KEEPING YOUR CAREER GOING

People are saying that finding a happy median with him would be the perfect situation. In cases where he absolutely had to keep the play going and take a big hit then yes he would obviously do just that...but in the middle of a season when they are up by two scores he doesn't have to take make those types of sacrifices.

And that's not just a "fan" talking....that is the same exact mentality that great coaches, orgs, and players have had throughout the history of the game.

Today Aaron Rodgers is the absolute best QB in the game. He is that perfect median that people are talking about. He can keep the play alive and take those hits when need be, but you don't see him doing that on a regular basis like Big Ben does.

I'm sure you'll respond with some, "are you serious??? that makes on sense...prove it, you can't" but just know....when you're the ONLY person arguing a point, and everyone else is disagreeing with you and all agreeing on the opposite argument, you are usually the one that wrong.

I put some of my writing in red....that means its the proven truth and nothing else matters right???
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1BackInBlackFan


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still surprised that Roethlisberger hasn't been injured more than he has been over the years. Missing about a game a year due to injuries is pretty impressive considering all the times he's been hit let alone sacked over his career.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1BackInBlackFan wrote:
I'm still surprised that Roethlisberger hasn't been injured more than he has been over the years. Missing about a game a year due to injuries is pretty impressive considering all the times he's been hit let alone sacked over his career.


It's unbelievably impressive the amount of punishment he's took and the ability to keep playing.

The only problem is that father time isn't on his side anymore...and unfortunately as people age, their bodies aren't able to take the punishment like it used to.

I for one hope he starts to play a little more cautiously, because I want to keep watching him play for at least another 5 years.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
Oh, it's the your stupid I'm smart defense... OK... So you can imply what it means... For the lay man like me does that mean you just change it to suite your purpose?
Can we cut back the condescending tone? My point was that despite you putting the thesis there, the way you posited your attack on the thesis suggests a clear misunderstanding of the point that was being conveyed.

Quote:
No, I really really really watched him play! See, I conveniently added another really! Anybody buying this? Thought not... Show me don't tell me. It reeks of arrogance and a bit belittling.
Pretty much everyone gets it but you. If you watch him play, it's clear that his play style is significantly different than others.

Arrogance and belittling? Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:
Huh? This is made up. One, he does it more than that and 2 he's 240lbs. It's part of his game. 3 he knows how to take a shot and position his body, the man is highly skilled - more than you give him credit for


1. At least.

2. We know it's a part of his game. The point is that his game is condusive to injuries, as have already been shown to keep popping up throughout his career, and the OP believes those injuries will lead to the end of Ben's career.

3. Are we really sure about that? The volume of injuries that he has sustained suggests that's not exactly the case.

Quote:
Let's look at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZrmMKH5m8U

Best view starts at 15 seconds in, he gets tackled at 19 seconds... 4 seconds... Wow what a crazy amount of time! Please, maybe it's best you don't try to prove points with any evidence...
Nice spin. It was 4 seconds from when most every QB is conceding the sack or getting the ball out. 4 extra seconds from that point. The average pass comes out 3-5 seconds after the ball is snapped. The fact that he held onto the ball 4 seconds past the time that a normal QB would give up is a big deal. That's a lot of time with pass rushers coming after you.

Quote:
Than you can think of... Well that's not a lot to go by... Rodgers holds the ball a ton too. Favre did and he had the record for longevity... They were/are always looking to make a play.
Favre also conceding to the pass rush quite willingly when he should have.

Quote:
So you know this but don't have any proof... Truth is Big Ben hasn't missed that much time. The dude weighs 240lbs, that's a fullback. He breaks tackles all the time. His success shows it works.
What type of proof would you like? The fact that smaller QBs like Eli Manning have missed virtually no games in the same amount of time? The fact that his injury rate is higher than every other QB?

And again, his success is not relevant to the point at all. His success is not going to stop him from being injured.

Quote:
But he hasn't been that injury prone or lost that many games. Those pocket passer with the quick release have missed more time. But those guys have had other injuries that have caused them to not perform as well. This isn't as easy as you think to determine. Their playing styles and what they do are different.
He hasn't? Which QB in the NFL has had more injuries than him? Ben is bigger than these other players, he shouldn't be getting injured more. So who is it?

Quote:
They all get injured! It's a violent game. Success is all that matters. I do not understand this point at all. Straw! Thou hast been grasped!
I thought you said that you did understand the point...

Quote:
What? They are nothing alike! Have you looked at them? They aren't even close to comparable players.

Big Ben - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

Mike Vick - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm

Now add John Elway... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

He looks far more like Elway than Vick. And Elway had what? 15 seasons? Of course, that sorta makes your argument look a bit silly.
Again, missing the point. This isn't about size. It's about play style and how that will affect Ben's future. Elway's willingness to concede to pressure was quite well noted. Vick, on the other hand doesn't and he gets destroyed. His injury rate being higher than Ben's likely is the cause of size, but Ben's size hasn't stopped him from getting injured.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:


Seriously, just stop.

You're playing the whole "smartest man in the room" thing waaaay too hard.

Or you're seeing you're wrong and have no point. But what a retreat from you're drunk... I guess that was a tough sell, huh?

Everyone except you seems to get it.

No, not everyone.

Big Ben is great, and part of his greatness is his toughness. He takes shot more often than the other elite QBs in the game, and because of his toughness, he gets away with it.

But it could also be that it's not that simple. Maybe he knows how to do it? I just don't see a guy right now that breaks as many tackles. I find that more indicative of skill than say... Luck?

The obvious point that I was trying to make and what everyone except you seems to understand is that while Big Ben has gotten away with that type of play for some time now, he is starting to get old. He now older than 30, and he's not going to be able to take the shots that he has throughout his 20s.

But it's not an obvious point... This isn't a guy with a huge injury history of missing games and he always seems to be pretty healthy for the end of the season push. And at the heart of what you are saying is he should change his game... Based off a hit you don't think is really his fault and more freaky than anything. So obvious it's not as simple as you think.

While a 9 year career is definitely great and considered a success even if it were to end tomorrow....you are acting like there is no benefit for him to start playing with a little bit more caution. Not every game is the superbowl, and now every 3 and long is a must make.

See, this is where you make no sense to me. These guys that play football... The great ones like Big Ben - they don't have an off button. He plays to be the best he can be. He's not like us that's why we can't do what he does and few around him (his peers) match up. The day Ben plays scared is the day he should retire. Don't fool yourself, all those guys are replaceable and they know it - eventual they will all be replaced.

While you've pointed out a few exceptions to great players that have had long success while throwing caution to the wind....those are exceptions, not the rule.

No, they're the rule. 3.5 years is what the life span is... It ain't 15 years. Most of us just simply forget the guys who don't make it.

The franchise QBs throughout the history of the game have had longer careers than any other position as a whole. This has happened because the league, organization they play for, and the QBs themselves make sure to protect their bodies throughout the seasons.

No... It's not historical at all and only in recent time have there been special rules. Until John U came around QBs didn't make enough to call football a career. During Favre's tenure as QB the Chicago Bears went through 21 starting QBs. We remember Favre of course, but those 21 other guys? Didn't think so, and neither do I. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/209553-the-worst-bears-quarterbacks-of-the-favre-era

Big Ben's career could end this sunday and he would have had a fulfilling career. But to act like him starting to play with a little bit more caution since he's getting older and can't take the hits he did when he was younger is stupid and will cause him to not be as good a QB, that's just ridiculous.

Says you. I say, this is a freak injury why freak out more? He's having the third best season of his career. Who am I to tell him to change? But I'm the guy who's acting like the drunkest/smartest guy in the room. I appreciate Big Ben and his style of play. You're a fan telling a professional organization and a sure fire HOFer how to play... Something seem wrong to you?

THERE'S NO HARM IN CHANGING THE WAY YOU PLAY A LITTLE BIT TO INCREASE THE CHANCES OF KEEPING YOUR CAREER GOING

If he wants to do that fine... But I don't blame the guy for anything or his playing style. But looking at his success, knowing how physical this game is, how competitive he is and his age? He's on borrowed time. Nothing he really does is going to prolong his career. Again, not as simple as you think.

People are saying that finding a happy median with him would be the perfect situation. In cases where he absolutely had to keep the play going and take a big hit then yes he would obviously do just that...but in the middle of a season when they are up by two scores he doesn't have to take make those types of sacrifices.

And as a player you'd respect him? Do you respect people that take a dive? That don't give it their all? Why should he play at all, bubble wrap him or put the second string guy! And what if a playoff or Super Bowl game is going poorly? There's next season, right? It's obvious you just don't understand what makes these guys tick. They aren't like us.

And that's not just a "fan" talking....that is the same exact mentality that great coaches, orgs, and players have had throughout the history of the game.

No... Type in Stewart Bradley concussion in google. Now you tell me he, his coach and that Philly organization is like us? Name Brian DeMarco mean anything? Yeah, the dude crushed his spine, got a Lidocain shot to his back and went back in to finish the game. Here's his story... Oh and you'll get a new perspective on Tom Coughlin... Cause you know, great coaches would care about health and all. http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/casualties-of-the-nfl-20121010?page=3

Today Aaron Rodgers is the absolute best QB in the game. He is that perfect median that people are talking about. He can keep the play alive and take those hits when need be, but you don't see him doing that on a regular basis like Big Ben does.

There was just a controversy about him going for a fumbled ball... You're wrong and don't know what you're talking about. I see why you think I'm coming off so smart... Because simply put, you talk about things you don't know. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1399652-rodgers-fumble-recovery-was-the-right-move-more-nfc-north-news

I'm sure you'll respond with some, "are you serious??? that makes on sense...prove it, you can't" but just know....when you're the ONLY person arguing a point, and everyone else is disagreeing with you and all agreeing on the opposite argument, you are usually the one that wrong.

Being right isn't a popularity contest. In the 1300's more people thought the world was flat than round. Didn't make the world flat, did it? And I don't see many people in agreement with you. No reason to prove you're wrong, I left links for you the whole time. I wouldn't expect you to have researched anything, cause if you had or had an open mind you'd come to the opposite conclusion

I put some of my writing in red....that means its the proven truth and nothing else matters right???


You can put it in what ever color you wish, will never change it into anything of value. You can take cheap pot shots, doesn't validate you. I'd say if you resort to: "you must be drunk... No that's not right, you think you're the smartest guy in the room" nonsense - you know you're wrong and just doubling down. Why? Because otherwise you'd use the time trying to come up with research or more constructive arguments that prove your point. But rather you use contradicting insults... Pretty weak.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:


Seriously, just stop.

You're playing the whole "smartest man in the room" thing waaaay too hard.

Or you're seeing you're wrong and have no point. But what a retreat from you're drunk... I guess that was a tough sell, huh?

You actually were the first one to bring up "fans swilling too much beer and thinking they can do what pros can" I was simply having a little fun, no need to get all worked up. And trust me...I don't need to sell anyone anything, you are doing a great job at proving a point to people, it's just not the point you are trying to prove.

Everyone except you seems to get it.

No, not everyone.

My apologies...99.999999% of people in this thread disagree with you and have a common belief in the argument against yours.

Big Ben is great, and part of his greatness is his toughness. He takes shot more often than the other elite QBs in the game, and because of his toughness, he gets away with it.

But it could also be that it's not that simple. Maybe he knows how to do it? I just don't see a guy right now that breaks as many tackles. I find that more indicative of skill than say... Luck?

I believe it to be a mixture of both. He is tough, and obviously knows how to take hits, but he also is hit from behind quite a bit, and in a lot of cases there is simply no avoiding the full brunt of the force that comes with being hit. The point is is that Big Ben does not always know when a hit is coming, and can therefore not prepare or brace himself for it, in which case, no amount of training is going to lessen the force of hit. And in that case...it is all about luck.

The obvious point that I was trying to make and what everyone except you seems to understand is that while Big Ben has gotten away with that type of play for some time now, he is starting to get old. He now older than 30, and he's not going to be able to take the shots that he has throughout his 20s.

But it's not an obvious point... This isn't a guy with a huge injury history of missing games and he always seems to be pretty healthy for the end of the season push. And at the heart of what you are saying is he should change his game... Based off a hit you don't think is really his fault and more freaky than anything. So obvious it's not as simple as you think.

Huge history of missing games....no. A huge history of playing through certain injuries that have created less than stellar play from him, yes. And while I'm not taking anything away from him playing through injuries, in a lot of those situations it would have been better for the team as a whole for him to rest and heal a bit more before going back out there. Because in order for them to be successful, Big Ben needs to be playing at 100%. And yes, I know everyone is injured in some way come playoff time, but I'm not talking about just playoffs. He has always played through injuries no matter the point in the season. And while that proves how big and tough he is, it also proves that he has ended up hurting himself and team more so by playing than simply sitting out an extra week and healing up.

While a 9 year career is definitely great and considered a success even if it were to end tomorrow....you are acting like there is no benefit for him to start playing with a little bit more caution. Not every game is the superbowl, and now every 3 and long is a must make.

See, this is where you make no sense to me. These guys that play football... The great ones like Big Ben - they don't have an off button. He plays to be the best he can be. He's not like us that's why we can't do what he does and few around him (his peers) match up. The day Ben plays scared is the day he should retire. Don't fool yourself, all those guys are replaceable and they know it - eventual they will all be replaced.

You see this is where you make no sense to me...what a coincidence Laughing You automatically think Big Ben and all other great players, can't adjust their game/mentality, and that is just wrong. A lot of the great players and QBs especially have been able to adjust their game as their age increased. The QB is such a unique position because IT ALLOWS THAT ADJUSTMENT IN PLAY. Big Ben can make that adjustment, that slight adjustment, and decrease the chance of injury while still being productive. How that can be looked at as bad is beyond me. Big Ben is a fighter, and competitor, just like Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees, all of them have that fire....but only one takes big hits on a regular basis.

While you've pointed out a few exceptions to great players that have had long success while throwing caution to the wind....those are exceptions, not the rule.

No, they're the rule. 3.5 years is what the life span is... It ain't 15 years. Most of us just simply forget the guys who don't make it.

Again, we are talking about the QB position, and franchise QBs at that. NFL players life spans are so low because of people getting cut/replaced by newly drafted players more so than injuries....franchise QBs rarely get replaced until they can no longer produce. Big Ben is a franchise QB, the only way he is getting replaced is if he suffers a career ending injury. The Steelers see him as an investment, and while that investment has paid off, they want another 5-7 years out of him, and he will give that to them unless he gets injured badly. I don't see the wrong in him doing what he can to lessen those chances.

The franchise QBs throughout the history of the game have had longer careers than any other position as a whole. This has happened because the league, organization they play for, and the QBs themselves make sure to protect their bodies throughout the seasons.

No... It's not historical at all and only in recent time have there been special rules. Until John U came around QBs didn't make enough to call football a career. During Favre's tenure as QB the Chicago Bears went through 21 starting QBs. We remember Favre of course, but those 21 other guys? Didn't think so, and neither do I. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/209553-the-worst-bears-quarterbacks-of-the-favre-era

That part would make sense had I not included that little word "Franchise" in front of QB.

Big Ben's career could end this sunday and he would have had a fulfilling career. But to act like him starting to play with a little bit more caution since he's getting older and can't take the hits he did when he was younger is stupid and will cause him to not be as good a QB, that's just ridiculous.

Says you. I say, this is a freak injury why freak out more? He's having the third best season of his career. Who am I to tell him to change? But I'm the guy who's acting like the drunkest/smartest guy in the room. I appreciate Big Ben and his style of play. You're a fan telling a professional organization and a sure fire HOFer how to play... Something seem wrong to you?

Way to take what I said and completely blow it out of proportion. I'm not telling him to start throwing with his left hand....I'm just saying that he should play a little more safe and protect his body a bit more. And if you don't think the Steelers org and the coaches are telling him to be a little more cautious then you are crazy. They have a HUGE chunk of money invested in him for years to come and they want to see him play for that amount of time...while the injury may have been a freak one, it still was a result of him trying to make a play knowing a defender had him dead rights instead of just throwing it away....and yes, something does seem wrong, you thinking you are making any sense at all.

THERE'S NO HARM IN CHANGING THE WAY YOU PLAY A LITTLE BIT TO INCREASE THE CHANCES OF KEEPING YOUR CAREER GOING

If he wants to do that fine... But I don't blame the guy for anything or his playing style. But looking at his success, knowing how physical this game is, how competitive he is and his age? He's on borrowed time. Nothing he really does is going to prolong his career. Again, not as simple as you think.

You are so wrong in saying that. While him playing a bit more cautiously is not a 100% guarantee that he will not get injured, it will most definitely decrease the chances of him getting injured, which in turn will increase the chance of his career lasting for a longer period of time.

That one statement right there is all I really needed to see. I now understand how you could think you are right in this situation, and how I know no matter how much sense everyone else makes, you will simply cover your ears and scream that they are wrong.


People are saying that finding a happy median with him would be the perfect situation. In cases where he absolutely had to keep the play going and take a big hit then yes he would obviously do just that...but in the middle of a season when they are up by two scores he doesn't have to take make those types of sacrifices.

And as a player you'd respect him? Do you respect people that take a dive? That don't give it their all? Why should he play at all, bubble wrap him or put the second string guy! And what if a playoff or Super Bowl game is going poorly? There's next season, right? It's obvious you just don't understand what makes these guys tick. They aren't like us.

Um...yes! What, you don't think Brady's, Brees', Rodgers', Mannings' teammates respect them? Because I have seen all of them concede sacks before.

And Actually I do understand what makes these guys tick, I've competed in my sport at the highest level possible, and while the NFL is a whole other beast and I'm in no way saying I'm the athlete Big Ben is, there is a difference between the overblown exaggeration you just wrote above and playing smart. Taking a dive is not the same as making sure you live to play the next down.

Are you saying that Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Manning all take dives and play scared and should be wrapped in bubble wrap??? Because all of them have realized when they were in a no win situation and either threw it away or conceded the sack on multiple occasions. I guess the rule only goes for Big Ben right?


And that's not just a "fan" talking....that is the same exact mentality that great coaches, orgs, and players have had throughout the history of the game.

No... Type in Stewart Bradley concussion in google. Now you tell me he, his coach and that Philly organization is like us? Name Brian DeMarco mean anything? Yeah, the dude crushed his spine, got a Lidocain shot to his back and went back in to finish the game. Here's his story... Oh and you'll get a new perspective on Tom Coughlin... Cause you know, great coaches would care about health and all. http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/casualties-of-the-nfl-20121010?page=3

Like I said...taking exceptions and trying to say that is "the rule" is not going to convince anyone that you're right. For every one of those stories you just gave me...there are thousands of cases where a coach, player, org has decided to not have that player go back into the game because of an injury, because they wanted to protect the player and make sure he could heal and come back 100% instead of going back out there and most likely making the injury worse.

Today Aaron Rodgers is the absolute best QB in the game. He is that perfect median that people are talking about. He can keep the play alive and take those hits when need be, but you don't see him doing that on a regular basis like Big Ben does.

There was just a controversy about him going for a fumbled ball... You're wrong and don't know what you're talking about. I see why you think I'm coming off so smart... Because simply put, you talk about things you don't know. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1399652-rodgers-fumble-recovery-was-the-right-move-more-nfc-north-news

Wait wait wait....are you really trying to use the instance of a QB jumping on a fumble as the same situation as throwing it away on a third and long instead of taking a big hit. Of course Rodgers jumped on it, any player would have, because, you know, its called a fumble, and if the other team gets it, they won't have a chance to punt the ball away, therefore giving the other team

Just stop man....please. You are reaaallllyy reaching.


Quote:
As Rodgers points out, the score was just 14-7 at the time (second quarter) and while the Packers were starting to dominate, a fumble like that on the Packers' own 25 could have been a game changer.

Nobody else was there—Rodgers did what he had to.


That is directly from the article you posted that "proved" me wrong Laughing

This WHOLE thread was about Ben taking UNNECESSARY risks and getting big hits laid on him because of it, and how it could end up cutting his career shorter than mean to be.

When Rodgers decided to jump on that fumble it was because it was a:

- 1 score game
- On their own 25
- Would have been a game changer
-In the middle of a season where the Packers started off slow and have to win every game to try and get home field and bye for playoffs.

In one of my previous posts I specifically pointed to Big Ben not needing to take UNNECESSARY chances WHEN UP BY TWO SCORES OR MORE. That obviously wasn't the case in Rodgers situation.

Thanks for the link...really helped me get my point across.
Laughing

I'm sure you'll respond with some, "are you serious??? that makes on sense...prove it, you can't" but just know....when you're the ONLY person arguing a point, and everyone else is disagreeing with you and all agreeing on the opposite argument, you are usually the one that wrong.

Being right isn't a popularity contest. In the 1300's more people thought the world was flat than round. Didn't make the world flat, did it? And I don't see many people in agreement with you. No reason to prove you're wrong, I left links for you the whole time. I wouldn't expect you to have researched anything, cause if you had or had an open mind you'd come to the opposite conclusion

You don't see many people saying yes, Big Bens play could end up ending his career earlier than it should be, and that by him playing a bit more safe he would increase the chances of his career lasting longer???

Please find all these people that disagree with my statement above.


I put some of my writing in red....that means its the proven truth and nothing else matters right???


You can put it in what ever color you wish, will never change it into anything of value. You can take cheap pot shots, doesn't validate you. I'd say if you resort to: "you must be drunk... No that's not right, you think you're the smartest guy in the room" nonsense - you know you're wrong and just doubling down. Why? Because otherwise you'd use the time trying to come up with research or more constructive arguments that prove your point. But rather you use contradicting insults... Pretty weak.


Which one of my insults were contradicting? I thought they were fine Laughing
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
They did invest a late round pick in a QB, Dennis Dixon, oh wait, he's not on the team anymore. wasted pick.


Hardly a wasted pick. He was coming off an ACL tear (I believe) that ended his senior year in college, where he was originally being considered for the Heisman. He was injured in the NFL and the team had options in Batch (I still feel he's here to "coach" Ben at times) and Leftwich (From my understanding; he knows the playbook).

Dixon wanted to start; it wasn't going to happen here. If he never got hurt, Dixon had a chance to be a solid NFL QB.
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
1BackInBlackFan wrote:
I'm still surprised that Roethlisberger hasn't been injured more than he has been over the years. Missing about a game a year due to injuries is pretty impressive considering all the times he's been hit let alone sacked over his career.


It's unbelievably impressive the amount of punishment he's took and the ability to keep playing.

The only problem is that father time isn't on his side anymore...and unfortunately as people age, their bodies aren't able to take the punishment like it used to.

I for one hope he starts to play a little more cautiously, because I want to keep watching him play for at least another 5 years.


The offense has moved to one that's a more quick pass offense and he's taken a lot less hits than he had in the past. His sack % was down to 5.4% with an o-line that still needs a lot of work, and 3 of the sacks came when the line pretty much gave up at the end of the Denver game. His current injury is just a fluke thing on the only sack of the game rather than a product of him playing as recklessly as in the past.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
1BackInBlackFan wrote:
I'm still surprised that Roethlisberger hasn't been injured more than he has been over the years. Missing about a game a year due to injuries is pretty impressive considering all the times he's been hit let alone sacked over his career.


It's unbelievably impressive the amount of punishment he's took and the ability to keep playing.

The only problem is that father time isn't on his side anymore...and unfortunately as people age, their bodies aren't able to take the punishment like it used to.

I for one hope he starts to play a little more cautiously, because I want to keep watching him play for at least another 5 years.


The offense has moved to one that's a more quick pass offense and he's taken a lot less hits than he had in the past. His sack % was down to 5.4% with an o-line that still needs a lot of work, and 3 of the sacks came when the line pretty much gave up at the end of the Denver game. His current injury is just a fluke thing on the only sack of the game rather than a product of him playing as recklessly as in the past.


That's great to hear.

As much as I hate when the Pats have to play against him....he's one of the most exciting players to watch.

Good to know he's getting better protection and personally keeping himself safer nowadays.

I know this latest injury was more fluke than anything else, just got me thinking of how it hasn't gone one season without hearing about him playing through some type of bad injury.

By the way...heard that this latest injury could literally kill him if he tries to come back too soon Shocked

Hoping for a quick and full recovery.
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