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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1395
Location: Bradenton,FL
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Gruden: great coach/ atrocious drafter. Atrocious. Ppl always diss his SB win but guess what, tony dungy couldn't get it done. Gruden brought the pieces to get us passed Philly.

And funny ppl forget them other team in that SB WAS JON GRUDENS DAMN TEAM. Lets not at like we didn't know their plays bucs fans. C'mon now.


Are you saying that the fact that he knew the Raiders in and out sullied his Super Bowl win?

Doesn't that make him even less of a great coach? And if he were such a great coach, wouldn't we have not picked in the top 5 every few years?


He picked in the top five because he and Allen were terrible at drafting. He did what Dungy couldn't do. People can't accept it. The man made the raiders a powerhouse and was within a tuck rule of back to back SB's.

He won the SB because we had more points than they did


So a team 2 years removed from a Super Bowl victory picked in the top 5 because of 2 years of poor draft classes? Sorry, but we both know that's not true. It wasn't 2nd and 1st year players that held the team back to a 5-11 year. It was Gruden.

And what a cop out to the SB point. Gruden was very open about practicing as Gannon because he knew the play calls so well. And in case you forgot, the Raiders fell apart immediately after the Super Bowl while Dungy continued on to win a Super Bowl on his own while building another solid defense who still has some pieces in place now.

I guess some people can't accept that Gruden didn't earn his SB without some help here and there. Gruden, Dungy and Kiffin will be forever tied because of how things happened in 2002. Gruden coached the team but we all know he never would have built that defense which is the reason that team was so good.


Dungy went to a team that had Peyton Manning
give me a break

Manning was going to win a Super Bowl
hes one of the All time greats

dont get me wrong Dungy was a great coach but when u have one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game lets not act like that didnt play a part
Gruden did earn his SB ring
without Gruden our offense would have sucked as it did before he got here
now by no means am i saying Gruden was an offensive master mind bc that is overrated but lets not also act like he Gruden didnt make our offense that much better bc he did
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4204
Location: PA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Gruden: great coach/ atrocious drafter. Atrocious. Ppl always diss his SB win but guess what, tony dungy couldn't get it done. Gruden brought the pieces to get us passed Philly.

And funny ppl forget them other team in that SB WAS JON GRUDENS DAMN TEAM. Lets not at like we didn't know their plays bucs fans. C'mon now.


Are you saying that the fact that he knew the Raiders in and out sullied his Super Bowl win?

Doesn't that make him even less of a great coach? And if he were such a great coach, wouldn't we have not picked in the top 5 every few years?


He picked in the top five because he and Allen were terrible at drafting. He did what Dungy couldn't do. People can't accept it. The man made the raiders a powerhouse and was within a tuck rule of back to back SB's.

He won the SB because we had more points than they did


So a team 2 years removed from a Super Bowl victory picked in the top 5 because of 2 years of poor draft classes? Sorry, but we both know that's not true. It wasn't 2nd and 1st year players that held the team back to a 5-11 year. It was Gruden.

And what a cop out to the SB point. Gruden was very open about practicing as Gannon because he knew the play calls so well. And in case you forgot, the Raiders fell apart immediately after the Super Bowl while Dungy continued on to win a Super Bowl on his own while building another solid defense who still has some pieces in place now.

I guess some people can't accept that Gruden didn't earn his SB without some help here and there. Gruden, Dungy and Kiffin will be forever tied because of how things happened in 2002. Gruden coached the team but we all know he never would have built that defense which is the reason that team was so good.


Dungy went to a team that had Peyton Manning
give me a break

Manning was going to win a Super Bowl
hes one of the All time greats

dont get me wrong Dungy was a great coach but when u have one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game lets not act like that didnt play a part
Gruden did earn his SB ring
without Gruden our offense would have sucked as it did before he got here
now by no means am i saying Gruden was an offensive master mind bc that is overrated but lets not also act like he Gruden didnt make our offense that much better bc he did


And yet, that top 5 QB didn't win a Super Bowl without a top 5 defense that Dungy brought about in Indy.

Yes, Gruden took our offense from bad to below average, I'll give you that. But that's all he did.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lmao @ he said that's all he did, like it didn't get us through Philly. I love blind sighted fans. Gruden did nothing? Lmaoooo

Hey how many SB's did Dungy win until the league changed the rules (for Peyton) that u couldn't touch WR's after 5yds? Because Ty Zlaw and them boys up in New England was whipping on them. Riddle me that
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsEST96 wrote:
Lmao @ he said that's all he did, like it didn't get us through Philly. I love blind sighted fans. Gruden did nothing? Lmaoooo

Hey how many SB's did Dungy win until the league changed the rules (for Peyton) that u couldn't touch WR's after 5yds? Because Ty Zlaw and them boys up in New England was whipping on them. Riddle me that


The Philly game that we held them to 10 points? With defensive scores?

If this is so laughable, then prove me wrong about Gruden instead of talking about Dungy. Gruden's overall record is awful and his drafting is even worse.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2216
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Lmao @ he said that's all he did, like it didn't get us through Philly. I love blind sighted fans. Gruden did nothing? Lmaoooo

Hey how many SB's did Dungy win until the league changed the rules (for Peyton) that u couldn't touch WR's after 5yds? Because Ty Zlaw and them boys up in New England was whipping on them. Riddle me that


The Philly game that we held them to 10 points? With defensive scores?

If this is so laughable, then prove me wrong about Gruden instead of talking about Dungy. Gruden's overall record is awful and his drafting is even worse.

Guess what ? With Dungy we avg less than 10 vs Philly in the playoffs. Take away Ronde's closer TD we dropped 20. Tony couldn't get it done. Accept it. In the SB the offense alone dropped 27. Vs a Gruden built team #1 historically in offense , top 5 in defense.
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1395
Location: Bradenton,FL
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsEST96 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Lmao @ he said that's all he did, like it didn't get us through Philly. I love blind sighted fans. Gruden did nothing? Lmaoooo

Hey how many SB's did Dungy win until the league changed the rules (for Peyton) that u couldn't touch WR's after 5yds? Because Ty Zlaw and them boys up in New England was whipping on them. Riddle me that


The Philly game that we held them to 10 points? With defensive scores?

If this is so laughable, then prove me wrong about Gruden instead of talking about Dungy. Gruden's overall record is awful and his drafting is even worse.

Guess what ? With Dungy we avg less than 10 vs Philly in the playoffs. Take away Ronde's closer TD we dropped 20. Tony couldn't get it done. Accept it. In the SB the offense alone dropped 27. Vs a Gruden built team #1 historically in offense , top 5 in defense.



Agreed

Gruden sucked at drafting and his offense here wasn't something noteworthy either but he got us that SB no doubt

Kiffen built the D just as much as Dungy did if u ask me no one remembered to throw his name in there
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manilathrilla1


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 1113
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Lmao @ he said that's all he did, like it didn't get us through Philly. I love blind sighted fans. Gruden did nothing? Lmaoooo

Hey how many SB's did Dungy win until the league changed the rules (for Peyton) that u couldn't touch WR's after 5yds? Because Ty Zlaw and them boys up in New England was whipping on them. Riddle me that


The Philly game that we held them to 10 points? With defensive scores?

If this is so laughable, then prove me wrong about Gruden instead of talking about Dungy. Gruden's overall record is awful and his drafting is even worse.

Guess what ? With Dungy we avg less than 10 vs Philly in the playoffs. Take away Ronde's closer TD we dropped 20. Tony couldn't get it done. Accept it. In the SB the offense alone dropped 27. Vs a Gruden built team #1 historically in offense , top 5 in defense.



Agreed

Gruden sucked at drafting and his offense here wasn't something noteworthy either but he got us that SB no doubt

Kiffen built the D just as much as Dungy did if u ask me no one remembered to throw his name in there


True, Monte Kiffin was a masterful D-Coordinator. Kiffin, along with Wyche, Dungy, Tomlin, Lovie, Marinelli all played a collective role in the Defensive dominance, and it continues to show throughout the NFL.

The great coaching staff helped mature the talent at all levels. That's why I love those Dominant BUC defensive teams so much, it is truly a rare thing to have in the NFL and an honor to have been able to watch them.

Possibly a Hall-of-Famer @ every level in Sapp, Brooks, and Lynch; even Barber and Rice have a shot. Without a doubt one of the best compilation of coaches and players the NFL has ever seen.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4204
Location: PA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsEST96 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Lmao @ he said that's all he did, like it didn't get us through Philly. I love blind sighted fans. Gruden did nothing? Lmaoooo

Hey how many SB's did Dungy win until the league changed the rules (for Peyton) that u couldn't touch WR's after 5yds? Because Ty Zlaw and them boys up in New England was whipping on them. Riddle me that


The Philly game that we held them to 10 points? With defensive scores?

If this is so laughable, then prove me wrong about Gruden instead of talking about Dungy. Gruden's overall record is awful and his drafting is even worse.

Guess what ? With Dungy we avg less than 10 vs Philly in the playoffs. Take away Ronde's closer TD we dropped 20. Tony couldn't get it done. Accept it. In the SB the offense alone dropped 27. Vs a Gruden built team #1 historically in offense , top 5 in defense.


I never really said Gruden didn't do well in the playoffs (in 2002), so I still don't really get where you're coming from. Yes we beat the Eagles, but it wasn't some monster offensive performance that did it. It was the usual efficient offense (which Gruden did bring) with a lot of help from the defense. Same with that Super Bowl with 3 defensive INTs. Without those, it's a 27-21 game.

None of that changes that Gruden was overall not a great coach. What did he do outside of 2002? He had good moments. But like I said earlier, it's impossible to separate what Gruden brought from what Kiffin brought, or what Dungy had already done.

I was always iffy on Gruden, but in 08 when we fell apart after Kiffin declared he was leaving, I think it exposed Gruden and I think that is the reason he isn't coaching now. He can't build a team to last, he can't develop a QB. Or he can't trust a young QB, but either way, no one wants a team built of band-aids in the NFL
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Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 2806
Location: FL
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
I was always iffy on Gruden, but in 08 when we fell apart after Kiffin declared he was leaving, I think it exposed Gruden and I think that is the reason he isn't coaching now. He can't build a team to last, he can't develop a QB. Or he can't trust a young QB, but either way, no one wants a team built of band-aids in the NFL

That seems like a pretty good explanation of Gruden to me. Can push a team thats already built over the edge. But he has no trust in his QB, can't seem to develop one, and is quite content with throwing bandaids everywhere. And his offensive mastermindness is just not true.
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mfw096


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off if anyone says it was Gruden's team won the Super Bowl you need to go find another team because it was Tony Dungy's team!

Second Gruden is not a bad coach and could provide that extra spark the Eagles need, which he did give to the Bucs his first season with the team.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved Jon Gruden as a coach, probably because of his kind of hard-[inappropriate/removed] mentality, tenacity, and passion that he coached with. Probably the hardest working coach in the NFL, always heard stories of him coming in at 3-4 a.m. to get started on the day, the guy ate, slept and breathed football.

As far as his "offensive genius" label goes I can't really say if he is or isn't because I don't think he ever had a great quarterback with the bucs, although he had one of the best WR groups in the NFL at the time, and a good running game. But its pretty obvious that the defense carried the team, and that was because of Monte Kiffin. As soon as Kiffin left the team went to sh*t. He didn't draft great obviously but that's not all his fault. It may be his fault for not developing young players properly though, but that could be due to his super man crushes on veterans.

I think Gruden is a good coach he just needs a slew of good players around him to be successful. I doubt he could be a part of any "rebuilding" club
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