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The Redskins are 0-8 against rookie QB's since 2006
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Slateman


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 6159
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me put it this way: I'm a Redskins fan. I picked up Foles in fantasy. He will start this week. Then I'm going to flip him after he goes off the chain.
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justo


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballProdiG wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
FootballProdiG wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Dunderhead wrote:
It's not a stat... What am I supposed to let sink in? Washington isn't a very good ball club (from owner to ball boy to the fact Redskins is a racial slur - all fail). I'm not surprised they can't win games, that's why they're not good.

As far as the defensive ranking, that's a very deceptive stat. NFL does yards, which is a fairly decent measuring stick, but it leaves much to be desired. Teams that play on short fields against Washington don't put up as many yards. Washington turning over the ball leaves a shorter field to score on, less yards.

As it stands Washington is 27th in points allowed with defensive rank in yards 28th.

Last year, in points 21, but in yards 13th. 2010 in points 21, but in yards 31... Wow, this team really is just plain bad. I guess I have no point with the yards v. points.

So a defense that bad loses to rookies? Not surprised at all. Just wondering when the fans will wise up and not buy that trading away drafts for a QB when their defense is horrible might not be wise. If ever I though it was a good idea for a fanbase to withhold their cash from their favorite team it's Washington. Force Snyder out and get a real owner and get this once glorious franchise back to greatness and not just a golden goose for a billionaire.


I guess YOU and not Native Americans know what offends them, congratulations....

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6093796/


As someone is part native American and part Black, this is no different than a team named "Blackskin", or "Whiteskin". Lol. It isn't offensive it's just kind of funny. The same way a there is a team based off Vikings, when all vikings did was rape and pillage Laughing


I would actually say the Fighting Irish is far more offensive than Redskins. It assumes basically that all Irish people are short red heads that like to get drunk and fight lol.


Is there a relevance to Ohio with Irish people or is that just a random name association? I don't remember seeing any Irish people up there either lol. Rolling Eyes There were actually Native American's in Virginia.


Notre Dame=/=Ohio
Notre Dame=Indiana

Washington DC=/=Virginia
Washington DC=/=Maryland

GEOGRAPHY. DO YOU KNOW IT?
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bulger2holt


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Redskins lose this game, they might not win another this year. Home vs a struggling team with a rookie QB. Not sure the Skins will win in Cleveland either. 3-13? This Ram fan hopes so.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulger2holt wrote:
If the Redskins lose this game, they might not win another this year. Home vs a struggling team with a rookie QB. Not sure the Skins will win in Cleveland either. 3-13? This Ram fan hopes so.


I know this is getting off track, but that was a complete fleece of a trade and yeah you guys most likely are assured a top 10 pick and Washington is assured to not get valuable help. These trades should be ok'ed by the NFL if for no other reason than regular people pay money to support a team and deserve better. This trade was done for political reasons, not for what was best for the team - short or long term.

Inside NFL circles they all know this has disaster written all over it. These trades are done every 10-15 years when memories fail. If they actually worked out, they'd be done more often. Ricky Williams anyone?
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

0-8 against rookies Confused so they technically play better against veterans...

weird Confused
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Redskins lost all those home games before they played Minnesota this year.

They also hadn't won a game when they scored a defensive Touchdown....until they played Minnesota.

Maybe these coincidences are changing? Perhaps this game is actually in Washington's favor.

and btw, winning is a Team stat, not a QB stat.
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24isthelaw


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:

Inside NFL circles they all know this has disaster written all over it. These trades are done every 10-15 years when memories fail. If they actually worked out, they'd be done more often. Ricky Williams anyone?


Running back to franchise quarterback. Apples to oranges.

I wouldn't have done it, but its understandable for a franchise to make a move like that.
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well not only do the eagles have a rookie quarter back they also have no oline.

They have a defense whose coordinators was scapegoated which caused the entire defense to give up on the season.


The eagles are badly coached, and seem to have just given up.


I like the redskins chances.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
Dunderhead wrote:

Inside NFL circles they all know this has disaster written all over it. These trades are done every 10-15 years when memories fail. If they actually worked out, they'd be done more often. Ricky Williams anyone?


Running back to franchise quarterback. Apples to oranges.

I wouldn't have done it, but its understandable for a franchise to make a move like that.


Oh wow... Some of these things give me head aches so I'm going to call it a day after this.

Back then, when Williams was drafted the league was changing, but many people still thought it was a running league. Ditka was one of them. So yeah, it's real comparable. And before Ricky Williams there was the Viking's great Hershel Walker... Another RB that was going to bring home a SB... Didn't work.

And it is never understandable for a franchise to give away potentially 3 blue chips and 1 more depth player for 1 potential blue chip player. I don't care what the position. Football is a team sport with some positions worth more than others, but you still need to fill all position with quality. It's never worked in the past, never will work in the future. Never.

This was solely done so a man could keep his job. Same reason that this was done in the past.
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lavar703


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
bulger2holt wrote:
If the Redskins lose this game, they might not win another this year. Home vs a struggling team with a rookie QB. Not sure the Skins will win in Cleveland either. 3-13? This Ram fan hopes so.


I know this is getting off track, but that was a complete fleece of a trade and yeah you guys most likely are assured a top 10 pick and Washington is assured to not get valuable help. These trades should be ok'ed by the NFL if for no other reason than regular people pay money to support a team and deserve better. This trade was done for political reasons, not for what was best for the team - short or long term.

Inside NFL circles they all know this has disaster written all over it. These trades are done every 10-15 years when memories fail. If they actually worked out, they'd be done more often. Ricky Williams anyone?


We're sure going to miss those two first round draft choices that could turn out to be Laron Landry, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, our first we used to trade back and get Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, Rod Gardner, Patrick Ramsey.....
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
Back then, when Williams was drafted the league was changing, but many people still thought it was a running league. Ditka was one of them. So yeah, it's real comparable. And before Ricky Williams there was the Viking's great Hershel Walker... Another RB that was going to bring home a SB... Didn't work.


Perception wasn't reality. Just because running backs were though to be as valuable as Qbs are today, or close to it, doesn't mean it was true. And that doesn't make it comparable.

And in the case of the Ricky trade, how much did that help Washington? They got multiple star players out of that deal, including a Hall of Famer. They didn't win jack. Why? Because they didn't have a QB. So many fans loved the Rams for trading the #2 pick, but even if those picks pan out, how far is that going to take them if they still don't have a QB? Not very.

Quote:
And it is never understandable


Your perception. Not backed by history - see the Elway and Eli Maning trades.

Quote:
for a franchise to give away potentially 3 blue chips


It would take a miracle for all 3 to be blue chips. And again, even if it does pan out, look at those early 2000s Redskins. Massive haul, nothing to show for it because their QBs weren't good enough - except in 1999, when they got the least out of their trade haul, yet had their best season because of the Pro Bowl QB.

Quote:
for 1 potential blue chip player.


Who has the potential do much more to help a franchise than any of those other blue chips. Putting them on an equal level the way you phrased it is pretty much the most dishonest thing you can do.

Quote:
I don't care what the position.


That's ridiculous. Of course you should care about the position.

Quote:
Football is a team sport


So is basketball. That doesn't mean you don't sell out to get a franchise player.

Quote:
with some positions worth more than others,


Much more.

Quote:
but you still need to fill all position with quality.


Nah, you really don't. Do I need to tell you how many teams have been successful in the last 5 years with a garbage running game and a garbage defense, with the passing game basically being the only thing going for them.

Quote:
It's never worked in the past, never will work in the future. Never.


2006 Colts. 2008 Cardinals. 2009 Colts. 2009 Chargers. 2010 Patriots. 2011 Patriots. 2011 Giants. 2011 Packers.

It's happened quite often. You get the quarterback first, then worry about the rest later. Without that QB...ha, good luck.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
lavar703 wrote:


I guess YOU and not Native Americans know what offends them, congratulations....

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6093796/


Never claimed to be offended... But nice strawman. Funny, things that I wrote that are basically opinion - your team and owner stink are fine with you. But mention Redskin is a racial slur and all heck breaks loose?

Dude, it's a TRUE statement.


Please don't allow facts to get in the way of your argument. I chose to acknowledge the most ignorant part of your post. I'm not seeing the problem?
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
Dunderhead wrote:
Back then, when Williams was drafted the league was changing, but many people still thought it was a running league. Ditka was one of them. So yeah, it's real comparable. And before Ricky Williams there was the Viking's great Hershel Walker... Another RB that was going to bring home a SB... Didn't work.


Perception wasn't reality. Just because running backs were though to be as valuable as Qbs are today, or close to it, doesn't mean it was true. And that doesn't make it comparable. In your mind...

And in the case of the Ricky trade, how much did that help Washington? Who cares? If Washington made bad drafts, it doesn't negate they made out on the day the made the trade. You can be good at trading, bad at drafting. They got multiple star players out of that deal, including a Hall of Famer. They didn't win jack. Why? Front office and coaching sucks... Because they didn't have a QB. And they fired the coach different GM... So many fans loved the Rams for trading the #2 pick, but even if those picks pan out, how far is that going to take them if they still don't have a QB? Not very. They drafted a QB #1 overall. They have their QB...

Quote:
And it is never understandable


Your perception. Not backed by history - see the Elway and Eli Maning trades.

Looking up Elway... Drafted in 83... Oh, coach got fired... He doesn't win a SB til 97! So it took more than John Elway... In fact, it took a RB to really make Elway successful. Also, this trade wasn't nearly what Washington gave up. Eli Manning's trade isn't near what Washington gave up. And it took many years for these teams to be successful and many drafts - if they had given away as much these guys wouldn't be successful either. These ones that you point out were just solid trades of value. But also, it says both these trades happened because the player didn't want to go to the team they were drafted by... So those original teams got value a little under it... Not what you're claiming cause you're lying!

Quote:
for a franchise to give away potentially 3 blue chips


It would take a miracle for all 3 to be blue chips. And again, even if it does pan out, look at those early 2000s Redskins. Massive haul, nothing to show for it because their QBs weren't good enough - except in 1999, when they got the least out of their trade haul, yet had their best season because of the Pro Bowl QB.

Not everything is as QB driven as you'd like to believe. Most of Washington's follies aren't QB, they are management issues. Campbell was a good QB. He could have been developed. Scrap heap with him... How many different OCs did he have? That's a management issue!

Or they could have taken Ricky Williams, right? And that would have changed their QB or Rb situation? Are you insinuating they weren't a better team for the trade? OF COURSE THEY WERE!

Quote:
for 1 potential blue chip player.


Who has the potential do much more to help a franchise than any of those other blue chips. Putting them on an equal level the way you phrased it is pretty much the most dishonest thing you can do.

How? RGIII still needs an Oline... Still needs Wrs... You need a bit of a defense too... Last but not least, the dude need continuity! Shanny's in year 3 already there is a thread here about him getting fired. Only reason he did this was to sell hope. Right now Washington is 3-6, last year they were 5-11... Will they end with any better record? Probably not. Difference? Kiss away their top pick... So against the cap, a year older, no chance of a blue chipper... How is this team gonna get better? Fired the coach and GM time... New system, still no picks... RGIII has to adjust... Fans question RGIII... Yeah, you see where this is going! And this is best case, what about injuries!

Quote:
I don't care what the position.


That's ridiculous. Of course you should care about the position. OUT OF CONTEXT

Quote:
Football is a team sport


So is basketball. That doesn't mean you don't sell out to get a franchise player. Wow, just wow... To make a point you KNOW is wrong you go to a different sport... Wow!

Quote:
with some positions worth more than others,


Much more. Oh, the context of my argument...

Quote:
but you still need to fill all position with quality.


Nah, you really don't. Yes you really do. Do I need to tell you how many teams have been successful in the last 5 years with a garbage running game and a garbage defense, with the passing game basically being the only thing going for them. Am I holding you back? This is so funny! If I had a point, I'd make it here... But I'm not because I'm too smart for that! Yeah! Put it down, make the point! Bring it don't SING IT! And of course all teams have weaknesses, the salary cap creates that. Drafting on the cheap would reduce weaknesses created by the cap. See where giving away top draft picks for a guy ain't so smart?

Quote:
It's never worked in the past, never will work in the future. Never.


2006 Colts. 2008 Cardinals. 2009 Colts. 2009 Chargers. 2010 Patriots. 2011 Patriots. 2011 Giants. 2011 Packers.

A list of draft and develop teams that don't make big roster moves and dumb blockbuster trades... You cite the Eli Manning trade and now list the Giants and Charges... My gosh, did you even think about this list? The Cards went with a FA from the Giants... So much fail, where to begin... For Synder, taking your hard earned money is like candy from a baby.

It's happened quite often. You get the quarterback first, then worry about the rest later. Without that QB...ha, good luck.


No, this is made up somewhere... This is a recipe for disaster. I mean a sucker is born every minute, but nobody could believe this? None of those team you listed did that.

Colts had the #1 in that draft and picked who they thought was the best guy on their board.

The Cards picked up Warner in FA... Chargers? AJ Smith took over in 2003... He picked Sammy Davis? A CB... The next year he picks Eli... and trades it. Rivers is still high on his list, so BPA and not a need as Brees is on that team... The Pats didn't pick Brady to build the team around... Most of their moves were defense early in Belichick's tenure. Packers took best player available and Ted Thompson ran it by Harlan...

If you feel as a club you HAVE to take a QB - you're reaching and not taking best player available. That's why only 3 #1 overall QBs are in the HOF. It's why so many QBs fail... The only difference in this equation is that Washington gave away so much so the failure ought to be epic.

It's this line of thought that leads to the same teams always being elite. Yeah, there's some parity during the season, but 29 SB are divided among 7 teams with another 15 appearances for these teams that ended in defeat.

Think about that, 45 appearances by a mere 7 teams in 45 years! Parity my butt...

Washington is not a part of that club. But hey, maybe their new way of doing business will pay off and you'll show us! Ha ha ha ha! Obviously the FA model didn't work... The Fun and Gun Spurrier offense didn't work... But this time the Find a QB and build around will work! I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is crazy and dont even really know how that is possible haha but i think its obvious its a factor of having a revolving door at QB mixed in with head coaching changes.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic, but let's do a history lesson...

Let's start in 2002, ten years ago... It was a simpler time in Washington DC grooving out to Soak Up the Sun by Sheryl Crow, and Washington brought back retread GM Vinny Cerrato and they were Running and Gunning... Well, more or less shooting themselves in the foot. 1st round selection - Patrick Ramsey QB from Tulane. Gonna save da franchize!

Yeah, it got Spurrier another couple years and then he was fired. Race to 2004 when all the boom boxes are blaring "The Reason" by The Hoobastank and Washington welcomes back Retread Gibbs... Retread coach gets retread QB(Mark Brunell), no room for the Ramster! And Ramsey is trade a couple years later (2006) to the Jets for a 6th? It was basically an injury laden career he had in Washington... No Wrs to throw to and talk that he requested a trade.

2005 and everyone is blaring Gwen Stafani's "Hollaback Girl" on their new state of the art 8tracks in their cars. Washington DC welcomes 1st round draft pick Jason Campbell... Oh he's a star in the making! Or so Slick Vinny Cerrato and the great retread Gibbs would have us believe... He's a guy you trade picks for too! Hey, you don't need 'em! You build around the QB, BABY!!!!! Ha ha ha! Change some coaches again, throw in some injuries... And what do we have? More Fail! Tag and trade for a 4th... Bring in a retread new coach who brings in a retread McNabbster as QB...

Now it 2012 and though we still don't having flying cars but we're flying high with Cloud Nothings, "Stay Useless"... There's probably a pun here, huh?

Retread QB out trade draft picks for QB rinse and repeat...

Really Washington fans? Really? Cause this is bordering on insanity... You simply can't make stuff like this up.
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