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RaidersJagsFan9


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1172
Location: Philadelphia PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it



Bruce Matthews son>>>>>>>>>>>>Utah Bust
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it



Bruce Matthews son>>>>>>>>>>>>Utah Bust


Reasons or are we just making empty statements now??
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RaidersJagsFan9


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1172
Location: Philadelphia PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it



Bruce Matthews son>>>>>>>>>>>>Utah Bust


Reasons or are we just making empty statements now??


Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3176
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it



Bruce Matthews son>>>>>>>>>>>>Utah Bust


Reasons or are we just making empty statements now??


Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


That's like saying all Tedford QBs bust..
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:

Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


That's incorrect. Small school's don't always produce busts. A good chunk of our best players are from small schools.

(By the way, Eric Weddle, Paul Soliai, Zane Beadles, Larry Wilson, Luther Elliss, Steve Smith, Roy Jefferson, Manny Fernandez and Jamal Anderson are all former Utes. - That's a pretty good resume)

A quick google search and you find this. This is not an exhaustive list either, but mainly a sample of players from small schools:

Quarterbacks
Tarvaris Jackson- University Alabama Birmingham
David Garrard- Eastern Carolina
Ben Roethlisber- Miami of Ohio
Tony Romo- Eastern Illinois
Ryan Fitzpatrick- Harvard

Offensive Lineman
Guard Jahri Evans- Bloomsburg
Dan Connolly- Southeast Missouri State
Donald Penn- Utah State
Michael Roos- Eastern Washington
Jamaal Jackson- Delaware St.

Wide Receivers
Brandon Marshall- Central Florida
Malcolm Floyd- Wyoming
Donald Driver- Alcorn State
James Jones- San Jose State
Roddy White- University Alabama Birmingham
Patrick Crayton- Northwest Oklahoma State
Miles Austin- Monmouth
Terrell Owens- Tennessee Chatanooga
Pierre Garcon- Mount Union
Vincent Jackson- Northern Colorado
Johnny Knox- Abilene Christian
Greg Jennings- Western Michigan
Jerome Simpson- Coastal Caorlina
Joshua Cribbs- Kent State
Jacoby Jones- Lane
Nate Washington- Tiffin
Anthony Armstrong- West Texas A&M

Tight Ends
Chris Cooley- Utah State
Visante Shiancoe- Morgan State
Antonio Gates- Kent State

Running Backs-
Fred Jackson- Coe College
Mike Tolbert- Coastal Carolina
Brandon Jacobs- Southern Illinois
Michael Turner- Northern Illinois
James Starks- Buffalo
Tim Hightower- Richmond
DeAngelo Williams- Memphis
Ahmad Bradshaw- Marshall

Cornerbacks-
Tramon Williams- Lousiana Tech
Brent Grimes- Shippenburg
Brandon Carr- Grand Valley State
Terrence McGee- Northwestern State Lousiana
Cortland Finnegan- Samford

Safeties-
Nick Collins- Bethune Cookman
Chris Harris- Lousiana- Monroe
Louis Delmas- Western Michigan

Defensive Lineman-
Robert Mathis- Alabama A&M
Jared Allen- Idaho State
Osi Umenyiora- Troy
Stephen Bowen- Hofstra
Israel idonije- Manitoba- Canada)

Linebackers-
DeMarcus Ware- Troy
James Harrison- Kent State
Brian Urlacher- New Mexico State
Bart Scott- Southern Illinois
Quincy Black- New Mexico
London Fletcher- John Carroll
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Last edited by NickButera on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:

Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


LOL this is great. Kellen Winslow wants your autograph. Matthew Slater is well on his way in NE also!! He's just saving all his greatness for the right time. I mean, seriously, do you believe what you're typing??

Utah's best player wasn't even Alex Smith LOL. Steve Smith is from Utah, Jamal Anderson. Larry Wilson (he's in the HoF by the way). I mean, are you serious? Are you just making up stuff just to type some words out? You must be bored...... there's no way you can believe what you're saying.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, Nick. There's talent to be found everywhere. Simply using a school as a reason someone will bust or be great is just completely asinine logic.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14930
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it


that was just his most recent failures. He has a whole season of them. you see it as a mistake and others see it as a lack of discipline, ftr its wasn't his first time and surely wont be his last. I hate when NT's jump offsides esp when the ball is usually about a foot from them. there is no excuse for that.

I dont get it you hate when TKO jumps offsides in critical moments but you want to replace him with a star who does the same thing. whats so different?

then you hate on jake who has done nothing but been a baller vrs top 10 talent all year. I just dont get it?
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BigMike1b


Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: 626, CA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it



Bruce Matthews son>>>>>>>>>>>>Utah Bust


Reasons or are we just making empty statements now??


Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


Bloodlines are definitely working out for Casey Matthews, right?

Can't knock the schools for having prospects that bust from time to time. It's the player's fault, not the school's.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3656
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:

Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


That's incorrect. Small school's don't always produce busts. A good chunk of our best players are from small schools.

(By the way, Eric Weddle, Paul Soliai, Zane Beadles, Larry Wilson, Luther Elliss, Steve Smith, Roy Jefferson, Manny Fernandez and Jamal Anderson are all former Utes. - That's a pretty good resume)

A quick google search and you find this. This is not an exhaustive list either, but mainly a sample of players from small schools:

Quarterbacks
Tarvaris Jackson- University Alabama Birmingham
David Garrard- Eastern Carolina
Ben Roethlisber- Miami of Ohio
Tony Romo- Eastern Illinois
Ryan Fitzpatrick- Harvard

Offensive Lineman
Guard Jahri Evans- Bloomsburg
Dan Connolly- Southeast Missouri State
Donald Penn- Utah State
Michael Roos- Eastern Washington
Jamaal Jackson- Delaware St.

Wide Receivers
Brandon Marshall- Central Florida
Malcolm Floyd- Wyoming
Donald Driver- Alcorn State
James Jones- San Jose State
Roddy White- University Alabama Birmingham
Patrick Crayton- Northwest Oklahoma State
Miles Austin- Monmouth
Terrell Owens- Tennessee Chatanooga
Pierre Garcon- Mount Union
Vincent Jackson- Northern Colorado
Johnny Knox- Abilene Christian
Greg Jennings- Western Michigan
Jerome Simpson- Coastal Caorlina
Joshua Cribbs- Kent State
Jacoby Jones- Lane
Nate Washington- Tiffin
Anthony Armstrong- West Texas A&M

Tight Ends
Chris Cooley- Utah State
Visante Shiancoe- Morgan State
Antonio Gates- Kent State

Running Backs-
Fred Jackson- Coe College
Mike Tolbert- Coastal Carolina
Brandon Jacobs- Southern Illinois
Michael Turner- Northern Illinois
James Starks- Buffalo
Tim Hightower- Richmond
DeAngelo Williams- Memphis
Ahmad Bradshaw- Marshall

Cornerbacks-
Tramon Williams- Lousiana Tech
Brent Grimes- Shippenburg
Brandon Carr- Grand Valley State
Terrence McGee- Northwestern State Lousiana
Cortland Finnegan- Samford

Safeties-
Nick Collins- Bethune Cookman
Chris Harris- Lousiana- Monroe
Louis Delmas- Western Michigan

Defensive Lineman-
Robert Mathis- Alabama A&M
Jared Allen- Idaho State
Osi Umenyiora- Troy
Stephen Bowen- Hofstra
Israel idonije- Manitoba- Canada)

Linebackers-
DeMarcus Ware- Troy
James Harrison- Kent State
Brian Urlacher- New Mexico State
Bart Scott- Southern Illinois
Quincy Black- New Mexico
London Fletcher- John Carroll



Jerry Rice from Mississippi Valley State University
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RaidersJagsFan9


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1172
Location: Philadelphia PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of Utah's latest picks over the years only 3 have been great Jordan Gross, Steve Smith, and Eric Weddle. Yes I understand that there are 20 players in the NFL from Utah currently. But that doesn't mean that Star is going to be the next great thing from Utah. Nick I wasn't saying every little college's player is going to bust. I don't think that at all so your little research project on a ton of smaller school players really meant nothing. Jtagg your dislike for Matthews is unrealistic. Matthews has stepped up every game to show he's every bit as advertised. He's going up against better competition every week compared to Star. Matthews has more come his way every week because of the best tackle in the draft on the other side. Matthews is a proven battle tested Tackle that will go in the top 15 picks and would show to be the better pick over Star. The bloodlines only prove that he has a great mentor in his father and he'll get the job done.
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
Out of Utah's latest picks over the years only 3 have been great Jordan Gross, Steve Smith, and Eric Weddle. Yes I understand that there are 20 players in the NFL from Utah currently. But that doesn't mean that Star is going to be the next great thing from Utah. Nick I wasn't saying every little college's player is going to bust. I don't think that at all so your little research project on a ton of smaller school players really meant nothing. Jtagg your dislike for Matthews is unrealistic. Matthews has stepped up every game to show he's every bit as advertised. He's going up against better competition every week compared to Star. Matthews has more come his way every week because of the best tackle in the draft on the other side. Matthews is a proven battle tested Tackle that will go in the top 15 picks and would show to be the better pick over Star. The bloodlines only prove that he has a great mentor in his father and he'll get the job done.


Much better analysis! Thumbs up. I agree with you premise about Matthews. I just disagreed with the blanket statement:

Quote:
Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


Because it's simply not true, as shown by the host of very good players that have come out of Utah. They've had some bad picks recently (and some good ones), but that doesn't determine the future of their current players. LSU has had a lot of very bad players that busted. But that doesn't mean future LSU players will bust. The logic just isn't correct all the time, and it's more of a case by case basis. I had thought you were implying that all small school's create mostly busts, my misunderstanding.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
that was just his most recent failures. He has a whole season of them. you see it as a mistake and others see it as a lack of discipline, ftr its wasn't his first time and surely wont be his last. I hate when NT's jump offsides esp when the ball is usually about a foot from them. there is no excuse for that.

I dont get it you hate when TKO jumps offsides in critical moments but you want to replace him with a star who does the same thing. whats so different?

then you hate on jake who has done nothing but been a baller vrs top 10 talent all year. I just dont get it?


Who doesn't make mistakes?? Can you tell me one person who doesn't?

I never said I wanted Star. I said if we pick 5th, he's a much better value than Matthews.... b/c he is.

Hate on Jake?

JTagg7754 wrote:
Yeah, Matthews late in the first might still be a little overvaluing him but it's still WAY better than 5th overall and I'd prefer to go BPA rather than specific position due to us needing so many positions. There's no need to reach. Matthews at 5 would be a god-awful pick strictly b/c the value isn't there. He's going to be a solid player I think but not even close to worth that.


What about this is statement is hating on Matthews?? B/c I don't overrate him like you do? He also plays RT. Most people put their best rushers against the LT. I'm sure he faced them during points of the game but not as much as Joeckel.

Joeckel > Matthews.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
Out of Utah's latest picks over the years only 3 have been great Jordan Gross, Steve Smith, and Eric Weddle. Yes I understand that there are 20 players in the NFL from Utah currently. But that doesn't mean that Star is going to be the next great thing from Utah. Nick I wasn't saying every little college's player is going to bust. I don't think that at all so your little research project on a ton of smaller school players really meant nothing. Jtagg your dislike for Matthews is unrealistic. Matthews has stepped up every game to show he's every bit as advertised. He's going up against better competition every week compared to Star. Matthews has more come his way every week because of the best tackle in the draft on the other side. Matthews is a proven battle tested Tackle that will go in the top 15 picks and would show to be the better pick over Star. The bloodlines only prove that he has a great mentor in his father and he'll get the job done.


So what? Who cares what school they come from? What does that have to do w/ anything? I never once argued Star being good b/c of his school, you said the opposite and I said it was asinine logic.

Again, what about this statement says I dislike Matthews?

JTagg7754 wrote:
. He's going to be a solid player.


What about that is dislike? What I don't get is your unrealistic accusations that I dislike a player who in the same thread, I said would be "a solid player". Let's not make up arguments here.

Again, at the 5th pick, Star > Matthews and there's no debate. I'm just willing to bet most people haven't watched him play over the past couple years where he's been very dominant.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.
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