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Cough's outside the box mock
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2506
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Rolni wrote:
silver_surfer wrote:
ill trade up to ensure we nab an elite edge rusher

Fail.
We need picks, players...

I would like a trade down more and more.

Matthews or a NT or a CB or even a guy like Werner(not freak athlete) could be available after a little trade down and we could pick up an additional 3rd rounder...


Yeah, Matthews late in the first might still be a little overvaluing him but it's still WAY better than 5th overall and I'd prefer to go BPA rather than specific position due to us needing so many positions. There's no need to reach. Matthews at 5 would be a god-awful pick strictly b/c the value isn't there. He's going to be a solid player I think but not even close to worth that.

In fact, draft Matthews over Star is more fail than supporting JaMarcus Russell......

We need to go BPA and BPA only until we get some of these positions filled.

I think you are a little too tough on Matthews...He is considered as a sure 1st rounder top20 pick. He is the 3rd best OT at worst. If we pick him between 10-20 it would be a good value.
What's your point against him?

We can agree on BPA...we need the best player, but if there are a bunch of similarly rated guys on our board and there is trade down opportunity we need to take it IMO!
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11703
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
I think you are a little too tough on Matthews...He is considered as a sure 1st rounder top20 pick. He is the 3rd best OT at worst. If we pick him between 10-20 it would be a good value.
What's your point against him?

We can agree on BPA...we need the best player, but if there are a bunch of similarly rated guys on our board and there is trade down opportunity we need to take it IMO!


I don't feel he's worth much until the 25-40 range. That's just me. I don't see him as a fit for LT. Maybe if he stays in school another year, possibly. I think it's also arguable that he isn't as good as Dallas Thomas or DJ Fluker and Joekle and Lewan are easily better IMO.

Trading down is the best thing to happen to a team and it makes too much sense to do it but the problem is, it doesn't happen generally albeit everyone wants it to so I don't ever predict trading down although I'd be very happy if it happened.

BPA is definitely the way to go and Matthews isn't even close to being on Star's level. If those two were on the board together and we took Matthews over Star, I'd have no faith in this regime. That would instantly kill it LOL.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14688
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Rolni wrote:
silver_surfer wrote:
ill trade up to ensure we nab an elite edge rusher

Fail.
We need picks, players...

I would like a trade down more and more.

Matthews or a NT or a CB or even a guy like Werner(not freak athlete) could be available after a little trade down and we could pick up an additional 3rd rounder...


Yeah, Matthews late in the first might still be a little overvaluing him but it's still WAY better than 5th overall and I'd prefer to go BPA rather than specific position due to us needing so many positions. There's no need to reach. Matthews at 5 would be a god-awful pick strictly b/c the value isn't there. He's going to be a solid player I think but not even close to worth that.

In fact, draft Matthews over Star is more fail than supporting JaMarcus Russell......

We need to go BPA and BPA only until we get some of these positions filled.

I think you are a little too tough on Matthews...He is considered as a sure 1st rounder top20 pick. He is the 3rd best OT at worst. If we pick him between 10-20 it would be a good value.
What's your point against him?

We can agree on BPA...we need the best player, but if there are a bunch of similarly rated guys on our board and there is trade down opportunity we need to take it IMO!


this.

people love to hate on jake like his stock is going down and he is getting owned by the competition.

show me a OT who has faced the type of talent jake has faced all season long and still perform well. besides jarvis, jake has owned all of the top sec de/olb's who are considered first rounders.

after the bama game jakes stock is still on the rise. unless jake bombs the rest of the season he is working his way up the boards and this is before the combine and personal workouts.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.
Yeah but Knapp is still the OC so the offense will still have challenges, plus we probably won't draft a lineman high since we use a zbs and already have a left tackle.

We need a guy that can get 10-15 sacks a year more IMO


Last edited by Nodisrespect on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nodisrespect wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.
Yeah but Knapp is still the OC so the offense with have challenges plus we probably won't draft a lineman high since we use a zbs and already have a left tackle.

We need a guy that can get 10-15 sacks a year more IMO


did burgess make that much of a difference?
or even kam?

porter and gayle can get to the qb.

if we dont protect the qb be will always be stuck in the mud. zbs has nothing to do with protecting the qb.

its like putting used tires (retread olinemen) on a lambo (cp) then wondering why it doesnt perform like advertised. sure we can get some retread OT's but dont be surprised if you get retread type production.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing there is no MLB's that are going to be free agents besides Brian Urlacher if this draft was true they would go into next year with McClain at MLB again I really hope not.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Seeing there is no MLB's that are going to be free agents besides Brian Urlacher if this draft was true they would go into next year with McClain at MLB again I really hope not.


We could draft an OLB and shift Burris to the middle.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Seeing there is no MLB's that are going to be free agents besides Brian Urlacher if this draft was true they would go into next year with McClain at MLB again I really hope not.


We could draft an OLB and shift Burris to the middle.


Maybe we'll see with only 6 draft picks free agents are going to be key for this team to be successful next year.
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RaidersJagsFan9


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1172
Location: Philadelphia PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Seeing there is no MLB's that are going to be free agents besides Brian Urlacher if this draft was true they would go into next year with McClain at MLB again I really hope not.


Will Witherspoon is a free agent. He could man the middle for a year or two. While we trade McClain for draft picks.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5185
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Seeing there is no MLB's that are going to be free agents besides Brian Urlacher if this draft was true they would go into next year with McClain at MLB again I really hope not.


Will Witherspoon is a free agent. He could man the middle for a year or two. While we trade McClain for draft picks.




good luck with that.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.
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RaidersJagsFan9


Joined: 15 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Seeing there is no MLB's that are going to be free agents besides Brian Urlacher if this draft was true they would go into next year with McClain at MLB again I really hope not.


Will Witherspoon is a free agent. He could man the middle for a year or two. While we trade McClain for draft picks.




good luck with that.



It's possible to get a 5th-7th for him.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it
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