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Week 11: Flying Captain America Heads v. Lucky Horseshoes
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Will the Colts take a musket shot to the face, or will the Pats get trampled under hoof?
Patriots win
56%
 56%  [ 9 ]
Colts win
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
friendship wins
31%
 31%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 16

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Tom Shean


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
so who thought Luck would throw for over 300? Laughing


Confused
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samgurl775 wrote:
Nihc wrote:
so who thought Luck would throw for over 300? Laughing
I did. And he threw for 334.


Sorry I meant 350.
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Tom Shean


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
samgurl775 wrote:
Nihc wrote:
so who thought Luck would throw for over 300? Laughing
I did. And he threw for 334.


Sorry I meant 350.


He was only 16 yards off...

Is 334 not good?
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samgurl775


Joined: 09 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:

Good game for us. Feel much better now than I did this past week after last weeks abomination.
It was a good game for sure, but (as the case has been all year) the D only looks "good" (and given the amount of yardage and points they gave up, "good" is really only in comparison to their own putrid track record lately) when they generate a ton of turnovers. It was the same last year. Problem is that they get badly exposed when they don't create those turnovers or go against a team which is very protective of the ball.

In other words, the D did some things well today but really it was the same story as usual. Way too many open receivers, not enough pass rush and bailed out by the opposing QB making some awful decisions.
Agreed. And not just last year, but 2010 too.
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tonyto3690


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:

Good game for us. Feel much better now than I did this past week after last weeks abomination.


It was a good game for sure, but (as the case has been all year) the D only looks "good" (and given the amount of yardage and points they gave up, "good" is really only in comparison to their own putrid track record lately) when they generate a ton of turnovers. It was the same last year. Problem is that they get badly exposed when they don't create those turnovers or go against a team which is very protective of the ball.

In other words, the D did some things well today but really it was the same story as usual. Way too many open receivers, not enough pass rush and bailed out by the opposing QB making some awful decisions.


You're describing the entire philosophy though.

Keep the ball in front of you, stop the run, and force QBs to be mistake free for an entire game and force turnovers. That's how it ALWAYS has been. Just now a days we don't have the same level of talent so we're less likely to get flat out three and outs. If you watch Patriots defenders, every chance they get, they're going for the strip. It's no coincidence we average like 3 FF a game.

It's not always fun to watch, but that's how BB wants it obviously. Force them to beat you, don't give it to them.
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C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
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24isthelaw


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luck could have sat down and put together a jigsaw puzzle back there.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:

Good game for us. Feel much better now than I did this past week after last weeks abomination.


It was a good game for sure, but (as the case has been all year) the D only looks "good" (and given the amount of yardage and points they gave up, "good" is really only in comparison to their own putrid track record lately) when they generate a ton of turnovers. It was the same last year. Problem is that they get badly exposed when they don't create those turnovers or go against a team which is very protective of the ball.

In other words, the D did some things well today but really it was the same story as usual. Way too many open receivers, not enough pass rush and bailed out by the opposing QB making some awful decisions.


You're describing the entire philosophy though.

Keep the ball in front of you, stop the run, and force QBs to be mistake free for an entire game and force turnovers. That's how it ALWAYS has been. Just now a days we don't have the same level of talent so we're less likely to get flat out three and outs. If you watch Patriots defenders, every chance they get, they're going for the strip. It's no coincidence we average like 3 FF a game.

It's not always fun to watch, but that's how BB wants it obviously. Force them to beat you, don't give it to them.


Pretty sure being terrible on D isn't the philosophy. Winning off unforced errors doesn't work in important games.
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:

Good game for us. Feel much better now than I did this past week after last weeks abomination.


It was a good game for sure, but (as the case has been all year) the D only looks "good" (and given the amount of yardage and points they gave up, "good" is really only in comparison to their own putrid track record lately) when they generate a ton of turnovers. It was the same last year. Problem is that they get badly exposed when they don't create those turnovers or go against a team which is very protective of the ball.

In other words, the D did some things well today but really it was the same story as usual. Way too many open receivers, not enough pass rush and bailed out by the opposing QB making some awful decisions.


You're describing the entire philosophy though.

Keep the ball in front of you, stop the run, and force QBs to be mistake free for an entire game and force turnovers. That's how it ALWAYS has been. Just now a days we don't have the same level of talent so we're less likely to get flat out three and outs. If you watch Patriots defenders, every chance they get, they're going for the strip. It's no coincidence we average like 3 FF a game.

It's not always fun to watch, but that's how BB wants it obviously. Force them to beat you, don't give it to them.


Pretty sure being terrible on D isn't the philosophy. Winning off unforced errors doesn't work in important games.


There is no coincidence that the Patriots are getting TOs.
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:

Pretty sure being terrible on D isn't the philosophy. Winning off unforced errors doesn't work in important games.


We don't have Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour, Warren, Colvin, Asante, Law, Harrison, Phifer, etc.

We do not have the talent to just lock down opposing teams. Belichick isn't an idiot and isn't going to try to beat teams down and end up just getting beat. Stuff the run, make the opponents one dimensional, and capitalize on the big play is our best option.

Also it worked just fine for the Saints in 2009. It doesn't work for most teams because most teams don't have nearly as good an offense as the Patriots who don't need 20 possessions to score 20 points.
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C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:

Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever

Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24767
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:

Good game for us. Feel much better now than I did this past week after last weeks abomination.


It was a good game for sure, but (as the case has been all year) the D only looks "good" (and given the amount of yardage and points they gave up, "good" is really only in comparison to their own putrid track record lately) when they generate a ton of turnovers. It was the same last year. Problem is that they get badly exposed when they don't create those turnovers or go against a team which is very protective of the ball.

In other words, the D did some things well today but really it was the same story as usual. Way too many open receivers, not enough pass rush and bailed out by the opposing QB making some awful decisions.


You're describing the entire philosophy though.

Keep the ball in front of you, stop the run, and force QBs to be mistake free for an entire game and force turnovers. That's how it ALWAYS has been. Just now a days we don't have the same level of talent so we're less likely to get flat out three and outs. If you watch Patriots defenders, every chance they get, they're going for the strip. It's no coincidence we average like 3 FF a game.

It's not always fun to watch, but that's how BB wants it obviously. Force them to beat you, don't give it to them.


Playing "bend but don't break" is different than playing terrible D and getting lucky when the other team gift wraps games to you.

The philosophy isn't to give up nearly 400 yards a game and put yourself in position to lose. Had the Jets or Bills been a little better than absolute trash, the Pats would have 2 more losses this year.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextsuperstar wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:

Good game for us. Feel much better now than I did this past week after last weeks abomination.


It was a good game for sure, but (as the case has been all year) the D only looks "good" (and given the amount of yardage and points they gave up, "good" is really only in comparison to their own putrid track record lately) when they generate a ton of turnovers. It was the same last year. Problem is that they get badly exposed when they don't create those turnovers or go against a team which is very protective of the ball.

In other words, the D did some things well today but really it was the same story as usual. Way too many open receivers, not enough pass rush and bailed out by the opposing QB making some awful decisions.


You're describing the entire philosophy though.

Keep the ball in front of you, stop the run, and force QBs to be mistake free for an entire game and force turnovers. That's how it ALWAYS has been. Just now a days we don't have the same level of talent so we're less likely to get flat out three and outs. If you watch Patriots defenders, every chance they get, they're going for the strip. It's no coincidence we average like 3 FF a game.

It's not always fun to watch, but that's how BB wants it obviously. Force them to beat you, don't give it to them.


Pretty sure being terrible on D isn't the philosophy. Winning off unforced errors doesn't work in important games.


There is no coincidence that the Patriots are getting TOs.


The fumbles aren't.

The horrific unforced errors some QB's have made this year? Those aren't things you find against good teams.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:

Pretty sure being terrible on D isn't the philosophy. Winning off unforced errors doesn't work in important games.


We don't have Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour, Warren, Colvin, Asante, Law, Harrison, Phifer, etc.

We do not have the talent to just lock down opposing teams. Belichick isn't an idiot and isn't going to try to beat teams down and end up just getting beat. Stuff the run, make the opponents one dimensional, and capitalize on the big play is our best option.

Also it worked just fine for the Saints in 2009. It doesn't work for most teams because most teams don't have nearly as good an offense as the Patriots who don't need 20 possessions to score 20 points.


I'm not saying that the strategy isn't the best option available, given the personnel we have. I'm just saying this defense shouldn't be confused for an effective one. It was bleeding all day long until Andrew Luck made some stupid throws.

You can't just live off of the opposing team's mistakes and win a super bowl. Sooner or later, the other teams stop making mistakes. Obviously, our offense (get well soon Dan Connolly) can take us there. But this defense is awful.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, I've been waiting for this. Is Edelman the best PR in Patriots history?

With a minimum of 10 attempts in the given time period, Edelman has the best career average, the best single-season average, is on pace to beat that single-season average, and has tied the franchise record with 3 career TDs. The big difference is that he got those 3 TDs in 68 returns, while Fryar took 206 and Brown took 262.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
Alright, I've been waiting for this. Is Edelman the best PR in Patriots history?

With a minimum of 10 attempts in the given time period, Edelman has the best career average, the best single-season average, is on pace to beat that single-season average, and has tied the franchise record with 3 career TDs. The big difference is that he got those 3 TDs in 68 returns, while Fryar took 206 and Brown took 262.

It's not a terribly high hurdle to clear.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
Alright, I've been waiting for this. Is Edelman the best PR in Patriots history?

With a minimum of 10 attempts in the given time period, Edelman has the best career average, the best single-season average, is on pace to beat that single-season average, and has tied the franchise record with 3 career TDs. The big difference is that he got those 3 TDs in 68 returns, while Fryar took 206 and Brown took 262.


Of course he is. He was coming into this year, he still is.
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