Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Kyle Rudolph & The MN TEs
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Heimdallr


Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 6788
Location: Himinbjörg
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:52 pm    Post subject: Kyle Rudolph & The MN TEs Reply with quote

Last off-season the Vikings signed Kyle Rudolph to a 5-year, $36.5M contract extension. Despite that large contract, Rudolph has failed to stay healthy, and failed to produce. Kyle averages 12 games per season due to injuries, and averages 2.8 catches and 26.8 yards per game over his 4 year career. That is not good. Those sort of numbers should only be acceptable for 2nd-string or minimum salary player. Unfortunately, the Vikings are probably stuck paying Rudolph for a couple of seasons due to that large contract:

2015: $6.55M cap hit, $5.20M dead money if cut
2016: $7.30M cap hit, $3.90M dead money if cut
2017: $6.80M cap hit, $2.60M dead money if cut
2018: $7.30M cap hit, $1.30M dead money if cut
2019: $7.13M cap hit, $0 dead money if cut
2020: Unrestricted Free Agent

Also, the two players behind him (Rhett Ellison and Chase Ford) both have very limited experience as true all-purpose tight ends, and are both free agents after next season. Norv Turner has a history of heavily utilizing pass-catching tight ends, so the position has some vlaue in this offense. A legitimate threat at TE would be a big asset for Teddy Bridgewater as well.

Should the Vikings consider drafting a tight end? Are there any free agents that could be brought in? When should the Vikings move on from Rudolph? What should the plan be at this position moving forward?
_________________

Teddy Bridgewater on football inflation:
“It doesn’t matter what they give me to play with. Whether it’s a baseball, a rock, a Frisbee, I’ll just go out and play.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
SemperFeist


Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 4561
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying not to be a homer, but if Maxx Williams is available in the 2nd round, I wouldn't be opposed to drafting him. Other than that, I don't think it's that big of a need. Yes Rudolph has been injury prone and he can't be relied upon, but Ford is good enough to put on the field and he's only a restricted free agent next year. Turner's offense like to utilize a tight end, but I think you could get adequate production from a "no name" player. I don't think the Vikings need to use a high draft pick.
_________________


Last edited by SemperFeist on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Freakout


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 3832
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't hesitate to cut Rudolph. He was never worth the money he received due mostly to his inability to stay healthy. I just don't understand why Peterson, who gives you great production for 16 games, has to slash his salary in half while Rudolph is basically robbing the Wilfs.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VikeManDan


Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 2288
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year the thought of cutting Rudolph would've pissed me off. Now that another season has passed and another injury has occurred I don't think I'd be upset at all. I think Ford and Ellison could handle the duties just fine.

I like all three of their potential. Rudy has the most to prove in 2015 and it starts by staying healthy.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 25935
Location: Brownbackistan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be in the minority here, but I have absolutely no interest in addressing the TE position early, if at all. There are other holes elsewhere that are far more of a priority to me than the TE position, even if Rudolph's health is questionable. Ford and Ellison are competent contingency plans should he go down again. As far as offensive positions, I'd put the priority for TE only above QB in ranking order.

Freakout wrote:
Rudolph is basically robbing the Wilfs.


You do understand that Rudolph is making less than half of what AP is? Also, despite his lack of health this season, he still had more receptions than either Ford or Ellison.
_________________


Thx to Lil Uno!


Last edited by disaacs on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 51181
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point, I'd rather just give Rudolph another year and take a player in the middle rounds of the draft. I wouldnt consider cutting Rudolph until 2016, when it will be much easier too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 79431
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you impatient whippersnappers would have wanted to cut RB Robert Smith too!

Laughing

drafted at #21 in the FIRST round, in his first four years with the Vikings he played in 10, 14, 9, and 8 games, blowing out both his knees and requiring surgeries. in each of those first four years he only rushed for 300-650 yards.

in the next four years, he rushed for over 1000 every time and had 1500+ yards in his last season, leading the NFL.




just sort of kidding around, i recognize Rudolph has been a disappointment. but still...
_________________


"Glove the one you're with."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Freakout


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 3832
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
I might be in the minority here, but I have absolutely no interest in addressing the TE position early, if at all. There are other holes elsewhere that are far more of a priority to me than the TE position, even if Rudolph's health is questionable. Ford and Ellison are competent contingency plans should he go down again. As far as offensive positions, I'd put the priority for TE only above QB in ranking order.

Freakout wrote:
Rudolph is basically robbing the Wilfs.


You do understand that Rudolph is making less than half of what AP is? Also, despite his lack of health this season, he still had more receptions than either Ford or Ellison.


Rudolph makes a little less than half and yet his impact on the field is equal to that of Chase Ford. I am struggling to see the positive side to your argument.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kparty69


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 1082
Location: Minnesota/Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that there was some sort of an injury clause in Kyle Rudolph's contract that limited the amount of money that he would make my if he was hurt?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rpmwr19


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 32291
Location: Stillwater, MN
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kparty69 wrote:
I thought that there was some sort of an injury clause in Kyle Rudolph's contract that limited the amount of money that he would make my if he was hurt?

Base salary guarantees for injury on the third day of the league year. If they cut him before then, as long as he's not injured, the only remaining dead money is from his signing bonus.
_________________
RPMs Viking Roster/Cap Tracker
2015 Aggregate Draft Board
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 25935
Location: Brownbackistan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freakout wrote:
Rudolph makes a little less than half and yet his impact on the field is equal to that of Chase Ford. I am struggling to see the positive side to your argument.


His impact likely would have been significantly more if he had been actually 100% when he came back.

However, you have to also look at the opportunity cost. If you decide to try and replace Rudolph, what other position are you potentially going to ignore?
_________________


Thx to Lil Uno!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Krauser


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 3545
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea for a thread.

Rudolph's in a similar position to Kalil in some ways: highly drafted, looked very good (if not a superstar) at his best, but not at his best for some time now, apparently due to injuries.

I wasn't a big fan of extending him before the season last year given his up and down history, but there was a logic to it: sign him for a fair but not lucrative deal before his production spiked as one of the major targets in the Turner offense. His performance in preseason was encouraging: put up 150 yards in 3 halves of game play and was Cassel's major target.

The contract numbers are eye popping, but they're not that impressive on a year-by-year basis, with the cap going up and several other young TEs getting paid soon. He'll quickly drop to 10th or lower in the league in terms of yearly cap hit. There's no real point in cutting him in 2015, but by 2016 a cut or renegotiation is possible if his production doesn't match his contract.

I don't think he was ever close to healthy despite coming back after the injury, just never looked right. There's still some hope that he can produce as a Witten-style TE in this system, but with every injury, I doubt it more.

At his best he seems to have topped out as a limited route runner, not fast enough or fluid enough to beat tight coverage, and with inconsistent hands. If he could at least be used as a big target (in the red zone, on 3rd downs) there'd be more value in it, but either Turner didn't deploy him often in that way or else Teddy didn't like to throw to him on contested passes (one example: the 4th down incompletion thrown into double coverage toward Patterson in the Lions game, Rudolph is half a step in front of a smaller LB).

...

Rudolph's numbers seem low but they're not that bad compared to his draft class. Of 13 TEs drafted in 2011, Rudolph is 2nd in career receptions, 4th in career receiving yards and 2nd in career receiving TDs.

Here are his stats compared to the TEs drafted in 2011 who've become regular starters:
Rudolph: 48 games, 133 catches for 1286 yards, 17 TDs
Kendricks: 62 games, 129 for 1388, 13 TDs
Cameron: 47 games, 130 for 1600, 10 TDs
Thomas: 36 games, 109 for 1282, 24 TDs
Clay: 58 games, 161 for 1809, 14 TDs

And here's Dennis Pitta, drafted in 2010, who I thought was the comparable used for Rudolph's extension:
Pitta: 50 games, 138 for 1369, 13 TDs

...

Second round's a little early to look for another TE unless there's exceptional value on the board, but I could see them drafting one that high in 2016.

In the meantime, Ford is pretty good, keeping him as a contingency plan with a late round pick or practice squad type guy should be enough of a hedge for this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Freakout


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 3832
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Freakout wrote:
Rudolph makes a little less than half and yet his impact on the field is equal to that of Chase Ford. I am struggling to see the positive side to your argument.


His impact likely would have been significantly more if he had been actually 100% when he came back.

However, you have to also look at the opportunity cost. If you decide to try and replace Rudolph, what other position are you potentially going to ignore?


I am sure it would but when is he ever healthy? This goes back to college when he tore his hamstring. The broken foot. Now he has had surgery on both groins as well.

I personally do not believe they need to replace him. Ford and Ellison did just fine tag teaming the position.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nozizaki


Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 2947
Location: The State of Orlando
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wish Rudolph could stay healthy so we could see him do work with Teddy. Chase Ford has honestly been the most impressive TE, and all he does is snag nearly everything thrown his way. Rudolph could do more than that, if he could just stay healthy.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 51181
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldnt mind giving Jordan Cameron a look if the Vikings did want to pursue other TE options. Cameron comes with his own injury concerns but is much closer to an ideal fit for Turner, who has a history of having success with athletic TEs, including Cameron.

Rudolph isnt an explosive athlete, he is much closer to being a possession target, someone who out muscles DBs for the ball.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group