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Why we should root for the Texans
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Why we should root for the Texans Reply with quote

IMO, a team this complete should win the SB more often. It's not that I dislike QB's at all, but if I had my choice I would want my team to win a SB with a team like this other than with a Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees type team. Those teams have been dominated by their QB and if they went down they are pretty much done....so the SB seems like less of a team accomplishment and more of a one man show.

Schaub is a very good QB, but if he went down this year, I could still see the Texans having a chance to win the SB...not because the dropoff between him and the backup isn't quite a bit, but because of their style and how good they are in every facet.

The Giants were not exactly QB dominated, but they simply weren't good enough either year if Eli went down...same for the Steelers with Big Ben, IMO...although they are the closest in recent memory. Those Rams teams were great cuz they also had the great running game even with a dominant QB, although their D was just good not great.

So I'd really like to see the Texans take it this year...The Schaub/Foster combo really reminds me of Green/Holmes as well as having one great receiving threat with Andre/Tony, the Texans just have the D to go along with it. If they win, they'd be the truly greatest all around team in recent memory.

Anyone else want to see this or do you prefer a QB dominated team to win it?
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My goodness, we agree on something. Very Happy

While my reasoning is different from yours - I cheer for them because I've watched this team grow up in my backyard since they were announced - I agree. We should all be Texans fans.

But wow, we agree on something. There might be hope for you yet, AR58. Laughing
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good premise, but I can't really condemn teams for having great quarterbacks. Once they get these elite quarterbacks, they build around them. Why would a team go out of their way to establish a dominant run game if they already have a quarterback that can put up 30+ points? They strive for balance, of course, but not over.

For example, the Patriots are always looking for a running game to compliment Brady. They seem to have found it this year, but their goal was never to find a running game to take over. It was just to compliment what Brady can do and make defenses have to respect the possibility of a run on every play.

Don't get me wrong, it would be cool to see a balanced all around team win, but I can't really condemn these quarterback-dominated teams for building around what they got.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ET, Awesome...well, I also assume you'd rather win it like this than trade for your favorite elite QB and ditch most of the rest of your team, no?

tml, I certainly don't condemn those teams, but I wish the tide would somehow shift to where it was harder to win without having an all around well built team. That Pats team last year making the SB was really disgusting to me, even though I rooted for them cuz I hate Eli....it was like only the QB's and HC's...mattered...boring already. I enjoy every facet being truly important....the Giants pass rush was about as big as Eli, but they still have no prayer without him.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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TommyC376


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We shouldn't. Everyone should root for The Bills.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Texans used to be my second favourite team, it's nice to see them doing well.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No... Just No...

You can't say such things and make a thesis around maybe... Even with these teams with great QBs, none won anything without a little defense. Eli is elite, folks need to get over that - being elite is more than just prolific passing. There's a leadership quality that's hard to quantify, but if you watch the game you see it.

As far as the Texans being this all around great team, I dunno. I think this is made up. Schaub isn't a prolific passer. Their Wr corps isn't what I'd rank as even very good... Mostly average - Johnson ain't what he used to be.

I really think the Texans are a team that is defense oriented. I think Schaub is a guy you don't want against a prolific QB in a shoot out. If Schaub loses the run game, he lose you the game. But with that attacking defense, they got a heck of a chance. Just don't know how much different that is than the Bears? Or how sustainable a team like the Texans can be relying on so many parts playing at such a high level.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you missed the point...take out those teams QB and they are toast, regardless of their defense contributing a little bit. With the Texans, you take out their QB, they still got a good shot.

I never thot Eli is quite elite and he's proving it this year, but that's not really the issue. Look at the OLines and tell me how he's doing any better than Vick this year.

You are right about the Bears...they also are complete, I just don't think their overall offense is near as good, I mean 28th overall in total offense...But yeah, if they won it'd be a great team effort.

Sustaining all 3 parts at a high level?? They don't have to do that to win, it's more risky depending on your QB, cuz if he goes down you are done or if he is neutralized like the Giants did to Brady, your team doesn't have anything else.
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49ers Finest wrote:

People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of


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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, I love the way they are built. It's the style of football I love.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
ET, Awesome...well, I also assume you'd rather win it like this than trade for your favorite elite QB and ditch most of the rest of your team, no?


Eh, I'll take it either way. I'm one of those who feels as if Matt Schaub is boarderline elite, just right on the cusp of being great...much like how Phillip Rivers was viewed a few years ago, before the bottom fell out on him in 2011 and this season.

I'm in the vast minority, I get it.

Dunderhead wrote:
As far as the Texans being this all around great team, I dunno. I think this is made up. Schaub isn't a prolific passer. Their Wr corps isn't what I'd rank as even very good... Mostly average - Johnson ain't what he used to be.

I'd actually disagree with it. Most of it has to due with me being a Texans fan, but you put that aside for a second, and there's some merit to my stance. It was only two/three seasons ago where Matt Schaub was throwing for 4,500/25 TDs a season (4,770/29/15 in '09, 4,370/24/12). Part of this had to do with a Texans defense that is a stark opposite of what we see now; Back in those years, the Texans fielded defenses that were 17th and 29th, respectively.

In short: When Schaub has a defense that can hold its own (as we're seeing now) he can be asked to take less risks, trust that the unit on the other side can hold its end of the bargain. In earlier years, when the Texans D was a sieve, the only way Matt could propel this team to wins was on the merits of the passing game - which he did. Those Texans teams were 9-7 and 6-10, but it's feasable that that the Texans would of been MUCH worse, 4-12-esque without the efforts of Schaub.

In short-er: If you ask Matt to be a game manager, he'll be a game manager. If you ask him to throw the ball all over the place, he'll throw the ball all over the place.

Quote:
I really think the Texans are a team that is defense oriented.

As stated, this is only a recent development, as the Texans jump from 29th D in the NFL (2010) to 2nd D in the NFL (2011) is one of the most drastic unit changes in NFL History (my memory fails me, but I think it is THE most drastic change in NFL History). With the rise of the defense, the offense simply isn't required to do much more than "not lose" a game. That's more or less Gary Kubiak's MO - he's VERY risk averse when given that luxury, and he has that luxury, now that his D isn't the liability it once was.

Quote:
I think Schaub is a guy you don't want against a prolific QB in a shoot out.

Eh...I can concede to this for now. Not like Matt hasn't had his share of shoot outs, but...to be fair, he usually ends up on the wrong side, even including the last two seasons (he had a duel with Drew Brees last year, came up short...had a duel with Peyton Manning, ended up winning...had a duel with Aaron Rodgers, lost that one). It's a small sample set, but worthy of note. We'll see what Matty is made of when he gets his run against Tom Brady later this season.

Quote:
If Schaub loses the run game, he lose you the game.

I wouldn't go that far, actually. Back in 2009 - his most prolific season to date - his run game was anchored by the likes of Chris Brown, Steve Slaton and Vonta Leach, not exactly a run game that gets "found" so to speak. It was lost right when the game started, so Matt was asked to throw, and those throws ended up leading to a 9-7 record, the best finish for the Texans to date. As stated earlier, this was when the Texans D was nothing near what we know now, so SOME of that credit has to go to Matt, for keeping that team above .500 on the merits of his passing.

'Twas three years ago, 'twas when Andre Johnson was the best WR in the NFL, hence why I say SOME. However, with the symbiotic nature of football as a sport, SOME of that credit does belong with Schaub.

Quote:
But with that attacking defense, they got a heck of a chance. Just don't know how much different that is than the Bears? Or how sustainable a team like the Texans can be relying on so many parts playing at such a high level.

The key thing with this team is the performances of "non-core" parts playing at a high level this season. We all know JJ Watt is doing some great stuff, Owen Daniels is looking like the same guy he was in 2009 when he was breaking into the low end of top 5 TEs in the NFL discussions, James Casey has been a success as a blocking and pass catching FB, Kevin Walter has finally come out of his funk dating back to 2008-ish, LB Connor Barwin is starting to find his stride, Kareem Jackson is developing into a very competent CB (I'll be honest, I wrote the guy off last year) Glover Quin and Danieal Manning are both playing some of the best football they've ever played...

I see your point on how they can rely on parts playing at such a high level...but to really be concerned, you'd have to assume that ALL parts would suddenly fail to perform around the same time. Given the line that each of these guys has trended at so far in this season, I can't see how ALL parts would fail at the same time (save for a rash of injuries, which is what caused last years' Texans team to slow down considerably).
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I wanna be a mod.

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spilltray


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
you missed the point...take out those teams QB and they are toast, regardless of their defense contributing a little bit. With the Texans, you take out their QB, they still got a good shot.


That's where you lose me. You can suppose this, but I doubt it's the case. They probably end up making the playoffs anyway, because of their division and record to this point, but if Schaub were to go down, the Texans go from being a contender to being a long shot.

There aren't 32 good QBs so every team can have one, and I don't think any team has 2. I don't care how good your D is. One of the elite QBs is going to be hot against you at some point and you have to keep up. Take a look at the Green Bay/Houston game for example. That was an ugly loss as is, but if it wasn't Schaub in there, Houston is dead in the water by the end of the 1st quarter.

There is no defense for a perfect pass. That generally means the team that has the guy that can make that perfect pass has a distinct advantage. I don't care if you have your conference's all pro D. If you are facing Rodgers or Brees or Brady or Manning on a day when their Offenses are playing at the top of the game, it's a track meet and you better be able to race.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
you missed the point...take out those teams QB and they are toast, regardless of their defense contributing a little bit. With the Texans, you take out their QB, they still got a good shot.


That's where you lose me. You can suppose this, but I doubt it's the case. They probably end up making the playoffs anyway, because of their division and record to this point, but if Schaub were to go down, the Texans go from being a contender to being a long shot.

There aren't 32 good QBs so every team can have one, and I don't think any team has 2. I don't care how good your D is. One of the elite QBs is going to be hot against you at some point and you have to keep up. Take a look at the Green Bay/Houston game for example. That was an ugly loss as is, but if it wasn't Schaub in there, Houston is dead in the water by the end of the 1st quarter.

There is no defense for a perfect pass. That generally means the team that has the guy that can make that perfect pass has a distinct advantage. I don't care if you have your conference's all pro D. If you are facing Rodgers or Brees or Brady or Manning on a day when their Offenses are playing at the top of the game, it's a track meet and you better be able to race.


Wasn't the whole thing about the Texans that when Schaub went down THAT was why they supposedly lost to the Ravens in the playoffs last year and would have won with him?
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
you missed the point...take out those teams QB and they are toast, regardless of their defense contributing a little bit. With the Texans, you take out their QB, they still got a good shot.


That's where you lose me. You can suppose this, but I doubt it's the case. They probably end up making the playoffs anyway, because of their division and record to this point, but if Schaub were to go down, the Texans go from being a contender to being a long shot.


Fair comment, but lest we forget - Texans had to deal with this last season, when both Matt Schaub and Matt Leinert went down in consecutive weeks with season ending injuries. The Texans were forced to rely on 5th round rookie QB TJ Yates, and while the Texans lost some steam in that stretch (7-3 prior to the injuries, 3-3 the remainder of the way) but they still managed to win a playoff game in that stretch.

Not exactly Super Bowl contending, but a strong showing from a unit comprised of guys making their first playoff appearance in their NFL career.
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Texans start TJ Yates? They don't reach the SB. Happened last season too with the same exact team.

A strong team? Absolutely, but they aren't winning the SB without a great QB. Schaub IS a great QB.
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Badger75


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't Mess With....Concussions.....

Will now watch the Houston Texans very carefully to see how they progress through the season and the playoffs. Are they just a NO Saints knock off?

If the NFL does more than talk a good game and actually does something about that crazy hit Wade Phillips put on Bears QB Jay Cutler, a Texas sized hit needs to be put on those Texans. Wink
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