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bmore4life815


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3517
Location: HoCo, MD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
-Munch- wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Just curious, why are all of you putting Torrey ahead of Denarius Moore? Here are their career stats:

Torrey (25 games) - 81 catches (3.2), 1389 yards (55.6), 17.1 avg., 14 TD's (0.56)

Moore (21 games) - 67 catches (3.2), 1193 yards (56.Cool, 17.8 avg., 10 TD's (0.4Cool

Pretty damn close. I personally think both are roughly even at this point, but I'm surprised to see Torrey ranked higher on every single list.


You're saying you don't understand why he's higher, then proceed to show stats that show he's done better...


In 4 more games though. Give Moore those 4 games and the stats are nearly identical, which is what i think he is getting at.

IMO it's very close, but Torreys blazing speed gives him a slight advantage to most people, and by all accounts his route running has improved dramatically.

A 4.43 forty is obviously impressive, but I'm surprised Torrey didn't run in the 4.33-4.35 range. His top-end speed is some of the very best in the league amongst receivers.

Denarius is a burner as well. Not quite as fast as DHB, but he can still fly.


It definitely looks like Smith is faster than that on the field, he just flys past people. Moore might not be as fast but he's got moves, runs good routes and can make any catch (but also drop the easiest pass Mad )


Exactly. Torrey has more speed on the field which obviously you can't teach. Moore is the better route runner. As a rookie, Torrey really couldn't run many routes in the tree, but this year it's a very marked improvement in that area for him. I think his potential is still higher than Moore's.

So when you factor in production and potential and both favor Torrey, it's hard for me to see how Moore should be ahead of him. And I like Moore a lot, so it's not a "hate" thing (before I get accused of "hating" another team).

Also, just to be fair to both players, while it's 25 games to 23, each have had 1 or more games at the beginning of their rookie seasons that they were not involved in the offense and got 0 targets. So, in reality the stats are from 23 games for Torrey vs 22 games for Moore.

Well, you're right. Torrey really wasn't utilized until week 3 of last year. Still, don't you mean 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore? He's played in 21 games, not 23.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
-Munch- wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Just curious, why are all of you putting Torrey ahead of Denarius Moore? Here are their career stats:

Torrey (25 games) - 81 catches (3.2), 1389 yards (55.6), 17.1 avg., 14 TD's (0.56)

Moore (21 games) - 67 catches (3.2), 1193 yards (56.Cool, 17.8 avg., 10 TD's (0.4Cool

Pretty damn close. I personally think both are roughly even at this point, but I'm surprised to see Torrey ranked higher on every single list.


You're saying you don't understand why he's higher, then proceed to show stats that show he's done better...


In 4 more games though. Give Moore those 4 games and the stats are nearly identical, which is what i think he is getting at.

IMO it's very close, but Torreys blazing speed gives him a slight advantage to most people, and by all accounts his route running has improved dramatically.

A 4.43 forty is obviously impressive, but I'm surprised Torrey didn't run in the 4.33-4.35 range. His top-end speed is some of the very best in the league amongst receivers.

Denarius is a burner as well. Not quite as fast as DHB, but he can still fly.


It definitely looks like Smith is faster than that on the field, he just flys past people. Moore might not be as fast but he's got moves, runs good routes and can make any catch (but also drop the easiest pass Mad )


Exactly. Torrey has more speed on the field which obviously you can't teach. Moore is the better route runner. As a rookie, Torrey really couldn't run many routes in the tree, but this year it's a very marked improvement in that area for him. I think his potential is still higher than Moore's.

So when you factor in production and potential and both favor Torrey, it's hard for me to see how Moore should be ahead of him. And I like Moore a lot, so it's not a "hate" thing (before I get accused of "hating" another team).

Also, just to be fair to both players, while it's 25 games to 23, each have had 1 or more games at the beginning of their rookie seasons that they were not involved in the offense and got 0 targets. So, in reality the stats are from 23 games for Torrey vs 22 games for Moore.

Well, you're right. Torrey really wasn't utilized until week 3 of last year. Still, don't you mean 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore? He's played in 21 games, not 23.


Oops yep, I meant 23 and 20, not 23 and 22. It was early Wink
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bmore4life815


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3517
Location: HoCo, MD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
-Munch- wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Just curious, why are all of you putting Torrey ahead of Denarius Moore? Here are their career stats:

Torrey (25 games) - 81 catches (3.2), 1389 yards (55.6), 17.1 avg., 14 TD's (0.56)

Moore (21 games) - 67 catches (3.2), 1193 yards (56.Cool, 17.8 avg., 10 TD's (0.4Cool

Pretty damn close. I personally think both are roughly even at this point, but I'm surprised to see Torrey ranked higher on every single list.


You're saying you don't understand why he's higher, then proceed to show stats that show he's done better...


In 4 more games though. Give Moore those 4 games and the stats are nearly identical, which is what i think he is getting at.

IMO it's very close, but Torreys blazing speed gives him a slight advantage to most people, and by all accounts his route running has improved dramatically.

A 4.43 forty is obviously impressive, but I'm surprised Torrey didn't run in the 4.33-4.35 range. His top-end speed is some of the very best in the league amongst receivers.

Denarius is a burner as well. Not quite as fast as DHB, but he can still fly.


It definitely looks like Smith is faster than that on the field, he just flys past people. Moore might not be as fast but he's got moves, runs good routes and can make any catch (but also drop the easiest pass Mad )


Exactly. Torrey has more speed on the field which obviously you can't teach. Moore is the better route runner. As a rookie, Torrey really couldn't run many routes in the tree, but this year it's a very marked improvement in that area for him. I think his potential is still higher than Moore's.

So when you factor in production and potential and both favor Torrey, it's hard for me to see how Moore should be ahead of him. And I like Moore a lot, so it's not a "hate" thing (before I get accused of "hating" another team).

Also, just to be fair to both players, while it's 25 games to 23, each have had 1 or more games at the beginning of their rookie seasons that they were not involved in the offense and got 0 targets. So, in reality the stats are from 23 games for Torrey vs 22 games for Moore.

Well, you're right. Torrey really wasn't utilized until week 3 of last year. Still, don't you mean 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore? He's played in 21 games, not 23.


Oops yep, I meant 23 and 20, not 23 and 22. It was early Wink

Rest assured, I made an early morning mistake also by typing 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore instead of 23 and 20, respectively.

Just curious, btw, what gives Torrey the edge potential-wise in your opinion? I personally think both are pretty even now and both have plenty of room to grow.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
-Munch- wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Just curious, why are all of you putting Torrey ahead of Denarius Moore? Here are their career stats:

Torrey (25 games) - 81 catches (3.2), 1389 yards (55.6), 17.1 avg., 14 TD's (0.56)

Moore (21 games) - 67 catches (3.2), 1193 yards (56.Cool, 17.8 avg., 10 TD's (0.4Cool

Pretty damn close. I personally think both are roughly even at this point, but I'm surprised to see Torrey ranked higher on every single list.


You're saying you don't understand why he's higher, then proceed to show stats that show he's done better...


In 4 more games though. Give Moore those 4 games and the stats are nearly identical, which is what i think he is getting at.

IMO it's very close, but Torreys blazing speed gives him a slight advantage to most people, and by all accounts his route running has improved dramatically.

A 4.43 forty is obviously impressive, but I'm surprised Torrey didn't run in the 4.33-4.35 range. His top-end speed is some of the very best in the league amongst receivers.

Denarius is a burner as well. Not quite as fast as DHB, but he can still fly.


It definitely looks like Smith is faster than that on the field, he just flys past people. Moore might not be as fast but he's got moves, runs good routes and can make any catch (but also drop the easiest pass Mad )


Exactly. Torrey has more speed on the field which obviously you can't teach. Moore is the better route runner. As a rookie, Torrey really couldn't run many routes in the tree, but this year it's a very marked improvement in that area for him. I think his potential is still higher than Moore's.

So when you factor in production and potential and both favor Torrey, it's hard for me to see how Moore should be ahead of him. And I like Moore a lot, so it's not a "hate" thing (before I get accused of "hating" another team).

Also, just to be fair to both players, while it's 25 games to 23, each have had 1 or more games at the beginning of their rookie seasons that they were not involved in the offense and got 0 targets. So, in reality the stats are from 23 games for Torrey vs 22 games for Moore.

Well, you're right. Torrey really wasn't utilized until week 3 of last year. Still, don't you mean 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore? He's played in 21 games, not 23.


Oops yep, I meant 23 and 20, not 23 and 22. It was early Wink

Rest assured, I made an early morning mistake also by typing 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore instead of 23 and 20, respectively.

Just curious, btw, what gives Torrey the edge potential-wise in your opinion? I personally think both are pretty even now and both have plenty of room to grow.


H/W/S -- the things you can't teach. Only thing Moore really has on Torrey right now is he's more polished, but Torrey is closing the gap quickly.

Plus, have you seen Torrey jump? It's honestly nuts, right there with some of the best. We haven't thrown him many jump balls for whatever reason, but when he elevates even while running, he gets over every defender he's faced. I've seen the videos and the like of him jumping out of his shoes off the field, but just the past few weeks I've noticed it during the games as well (hasn't come down with one yet though).
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bmore4life815


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3517
Location: HoCo, MD
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
-Munch- wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Just curious, why are all of you putting Torrey ahead of Denarius Moore? Here are their career stats:

Torrey (25 games) - 81 catches (3.2), 1389 yards (55.6), 17.1 avg., 14 TD's (0.56)

Moore (21 games) - 67 catches (3.2), 1193 yards (56.Cool, 17.8 avg., 10 TD's (0.4Cool

Pretty damn close. I personally think both are roughly even at this point, but I'm surprised to see Torrey ranked higher on every single list.


You're saying you don't understand why he's higher, then proceed to show stats that show he's done better...


In 4 more games though. Give Moore those 4 games and the stats are nearly identical, which is what i think he is getting at.

IMO it's very close, but Torreys blazing speed gives him a slight advantage to most people, and by all accounts his route running has improved dramatically.

A 4.43 forty is obviously impressive, but I'm surprised Torrey didn't run in the 4.33-4.35 range. His top-end speed is some of the very best in the league amongst receivers.

Denarius is a burner as well. Not quite as fast as DHB, but he can still fly.


It definitely looks like Smith is faster than that on the field, he just flys past people. Moore might not be as fast but he's got moves, runs good routes and can make any catch (but also drop the easiest pass Mad )


Exactly. Torrey has more speed on the field which obviously you can't teach. Moore is the better route runner. As a rookie, Torrey really couldn't run many routes in the tree, but this year it's a very marked improvement in that area for him. I think his potential is still higher than Moore's.

So when you factor in production and potential and both favor Torrey, it's hard for me to see how Moore should be ahead of him. And I like Moore a lot, so it's not a "hate" thing (before I get accused of "hating" another team).

Also, just to be fair to both players, while it's 25 games to 23, each have had 1 or more games at the beginning of their rookie seasons that they were not involved in the offense and got 0 targets. So, in reality the stats are from 23 games for Torrey vs 22 games for Moore.

Well, you're right. Torrey really wasn't utilized until week 3 of last year. Still, don't you mean 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore? He's played in 21 games, not 23.


Oops yep, I meant 23 and 20, not 23 and 22. It was early Wink

Rest assured, I made an early morning mistake also by typing 25 for Torrey and 20 for Moore instead of 23 and 20, respectively.

Just curious, btw, what gives Torrey the edge potential-wise in your opinion? I personally think both are pretty even now and both have plenty of room to grow.


H/W/S -- the things you can't teach. Only thing Moore really has on Torrey right now is he's more polished, but Torrey is closing the gap quickly.

Plus, have you seen Torrey jump? It's honestly nuts, right there with some of the best. We haven't thrown him many jump balls for whatever reason, but when he elevates even while running, he gets over every defender he's faced. I've seen the videos and the like of him jumping out of his shoes off the field, but just the past few weeks I've noticed it during the games as well (hasn't come down with one yet though).

Yeah, he's definitely got hops. His vertical at the combine was 41", IIRC.
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strings


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stats of some of the 2011 so far this season:
AJ Green
GS: 10
Targets: 104
Rec: 64
Yards: 911
AVG: 14.2
TD: 10

Julio Jones
GS: 9
Targets: 78
Rec: 47
Yards: 736
AVG: 15.7
TD: 5

Randall Cobb
GS: 5
Targets: 71
Rec: 54
Yards: 574
AVG: 10.6
TD: 7

Torrey Smith
GS: 10
Targets: 71
Rec: 32
Yards: 555
AVG: 17.3
TD: 7

Cecil Shorts III
GS: 5
Targets: 75
Rec: 32
Yards: 642
AVG: 20.1
TD: 5

I wouldn't sleep on Shorts. If he had the QB some of these other guys have he might be up there with the best of them.
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KhanYouDigIt


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Posts: 5450
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at Cecil's numbers and comparing them with other 2nd year WR's:

T- 7th in catches (36)
3rd in yards (747, behind Green and Julio)
1st in YPC (20.8)
3rd in YPG (68, behind Green and Julio)
T- 3rd in TD's (6)
T- 1st in catches of 20 + yards (14, tied with Green and Julio)
2nd in catches of 40 + yards (5, only behind Green who has 7)


Also take into account he had/has Gabbert/Henne throwing to him, he's only been targeted 71 times and barely played the first 5 weeks of the season (82 snaps).
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green24


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Posts: 47615
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

strings wrote:
Stats of some of the 2011 so far this season:
AJ Green
GS: 10
Targets: 104
Rec: 64
Yards: 911
AVG: 14.2
TD: 10

Julio Jones
GS: 9
Targets: 78
Rec: 47
Yards: 736
AVG: 15.7
TD: 5

Randall Cobb
GS: 5
Targets: 71
Rec: 54
Yards: 574
AVG: 10.6
TD: 7

Torrey Smith
GS: 10
Targets: 71
Rec: 32
Yards: 555
AVG: 17.3
TD: 7

Cecil Shorts III
GS: 5
Targets: 75
Rec: 32
Yards: 642
AVG: 20.1
TD: 5

I wouldn't sleep on Shorts. If he had the QB some of these other guys have he might be up there with the best of them.

Jeremy Kerley hasn't been bad either.

GS: 4
Targets: 72
Rec: 45
Yards: 664
Avg: 14.8
TD: 2
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El ramster


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt that Cecil is putting in work...


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/302651_540642545950435_824039042_n.jpg

this is cecil but with QB's
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Jaguarfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cecil is the clear cut number 3 at the moment....
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Tom Shean


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorts
Shorts
Shorts
Shorts
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Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Shean wrote:
Shorts
Shorts
Shorts
Shorts

This guy knows.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
Cecil is the clear cut number 3 at the moment....


[homer shades]

How is it in any way clear cut? Smith has like 40 less yards, but one more TD this year, and actually has sustained production from his rookie year. He's clearly been the number 1 threat in the passing game that opposing teams have schemed to take away with double high-low coverage (I'm guessing the same is true for Shorts in the Jags offense).

[/homer shades]

I'm not saying you can't make a case for Shorts because you certainly can, but it's not clear cut.
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ Green
Julio Jones
Torrey Smith
Denarius Moore
Randall Cobb
Cecil Shorts
Jeremy Kerley
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Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 27986
Location: KILL ME
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Jaguarfan wrote:
Cecil is the clear cut number 3 at the moment....


[homer shades]

How is it in any way clear cut? Smith has like 40 less yards, but one more TD this year, and actually has sustained production from his rookie year. He's clearly been the number 1 threat in the passing game that opposing teams have schemed to take away with double high-low coverage (I'm guessing the same is true for Shorts in the Jags offense).

[/homer shades]

I'm not saying you can't make a case for Shorts because you certainly can, but it's not clear cut.

Shouldn't have said clear cut. But Cecil has better production having not started the first 5 games and playing with Blaine Gabbert for 8 games
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